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joslin44_gw

Need income: Add mini kitchen or bath??

joslin44
9 years ago

I need to make some income from my home I'm living in. I'm too private to just rent out a couple of rooms (the easiest, most cost effective solution), so I am trying to decide between two other options. I don't need much space, and would welcome the simplicity of a small space to live in.

Option #1: Dividing the house in two.
Adding a mini kitchen to my dining room. These are on piece kitchenettes that come all in one piece and are meant for dorm room or efficiency apts. (I don't do any heavy cooking at all, so it would be plenty of kitchen for me). I would seal off one common door, thus splitting my house in two. Projected cost to add kitchenette (Acme $2600) and electrical/plumbing additions ($500). Projected income from the remaining half of house = $950/month.

Option #2: Making an efficiency apartment.
Adding a very simple small bathroom in a large back room of the house. This would share a common wall in the garage, very close to plumbing, etc. This makes an efficiency apartment out of that room (approx. 300 sq. ft.). Would simply close off one door that leads into the house kitchen. Would add small microwave, hotplate, small toaster oven, small refrigerator. Approx. cost = $300. Approx. cost to add bathroom to garage/common wall of room = $3700, plus electric and plumbing $1000. Projected income from this efficiency apartment = $650. Less income, but retain more of my home.

Both choices would have their own entrances. Both would be bills paid. Both would have access to washer/dryer in garage. Both would come fully furnished. There is a fairly strong rental market here as I live close to a major medical center.

Thoughts? Ideas? Suggestions?

Comments (31)

  • live_wire_oak
    9 years ago

    Check zoning to see if this would even be allowed. You likely would be fine adding a roomate. But dividing a home into a rental unit, if legally allowed, will require a whole lot more red tape, construction, and expense, than you may be anticipating.

  • geoffrey_b
    9 years ago

    Sorry - but this sounds like a 'ghetto' idea. Don't ruin your neighborhood.

  • hippy
    9 years ago

    add small microwave, hotplate, small toaster oven, small refrigerator.

    With that. You must also have a kitchen sink installed.

    You will also need to add a separate heat and cooling system for each unit.

    You must also have two exit doors or escape routes of each unit (fire code).

    By unit I mean your 1/2 of the house and the rental side are counted as two separate units..

    You are in for far more than you are bargaining for when it comes to turning 1/2 of you house into an apartment. Which is basically what you will have by the time you get everything up to code before renting it out.

  • GreenDesigns
    9 years ago

    A second job would bring in more income by the time you factor in all of the expense associated with the construction of a rental and the hassle of being a landlord. If the house is too large and expensive for you, perhaps consider selling it and moving to a smaller home.

  • greg_2010
    9 years ago

    Rent out the whole house and find a smaller place for yourself.
    Renovation cost: $0
    Rental revenue estimate: $1400/month
    Smaller apartment estimate: $700/month

    (Obviously those numbers are just wild guesses)

  • joslin44
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Wow, not the type of responses I was anticipating. Let me add: I am 66 years old, and work full time. Second job? No thank you. None of the changes I am planning would be permanent, with the exception of an extra bath in the garage. I am not worried at all about this sounding "ghetto" as these changes will not be seen by anyone but me. I am in survival mode, and need the income. I can also not move, as I have three older dogs and a lien on my home. These are hard times, and I have worked since I was 16, and will always have to work. I do not believe that permits will be required except for the bathroom, which I can get. Zoning does not matter since I will technically be sharing my house, not making a real duplex or efficiency with separate a/c and mail. Surely there must be others out there in similar situations on this board. If not, then, please be thankful you are in a living situation that doesn't require this kind of creative thinking. But please be sensitive to to those of us who are not.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    Option 2 makes it more of a guest/in-law/adult -child- moves- back- home suite and you could potentially market it as such if/when you sell.

    You will need to add a sink and storage for basic kitchen equipment.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    I was thinking the same thing. People do in-law suites all the time. I would take the options to the township to see what or which would be permitted.

  • hilltop_gw
    9 years ago

    I see you posted a very similar question back in January 2013 and got very similar type answers suggesting permitting and moving, etc. Dividing the house in two or creating an efficiency apartment suggests you want a tenant, but tenants have far more rights than a boarder. So check into the laws of your state regarding having a tenant vs. a boarder. Providing housing for someone else requires a certain level of responsibility, repairs and maintenance. Be prepared. Then also determine how you are going to handle these issues: security deposit, payment, safety, eviction, the dogs, insurance (in case of injury or person's property damage), theft, discrimination, boundaries within your home, responsibilities of each party, etc.

    I realize I may be blasted for this; however with 3 older dogs, have you considered finding another home for one or more of your dogs? Pets are expensive, and can be even moreso in their older years. Do you have things you can sell? Since you say you are desperate, but don't want to cut your expenses by moving or increase your income by getting another job, can you set up a gofundme account or go to some other request site. Having a tenant or boarder may be even more work than a second job. At least then you can go home to peace.

  • violetwest
    9 years ago

    I love the idea of a mother in law suite for extra income. It's not "ghetto" at all, unless you live in a snobby, gated community, or where there are covenants or restrictions prohibiting this.

    It's actually becoming more common, and more in line with new ideas of families sharing houses and smaller homes, etc. Many communities are changing their zoning laws to allow infill development like this to slow down "sprawl" and address the need for affordable and senior housing, particularly in urban areas where housing close in is expensive.

    In my opinion, you should see if you can make a real, legally rentable Accessory Dwelling Unit; either by splitting up the space or adding a backyard cottage unit in your yard. You will need a permit to install a kitchen. If you cannot legally or monetarily do this, then look at your other options. But look into doing it up right first.

  • geoffrey_b
    9 years ago

    Hilltop: I agree with you - I'd get rid of one of the dogs.

    A roommate sounds the easiest.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    My favorite site for small space solutions is:
    http://www.apartmenttherapy.com/

  • renovator8
    9 years ago

    It is not insensitive to point out what the law is likely to require of you. You would not want to spend a lot of money and be told you can't rent the space. In most jurisdictions a second stove makes the dwelling a 2 family even if the tenant is related to you. That would require a 2 hour separation between the units. There may be jurisdictions that allow a small apartment if it is less than a certain percentage of your house size. Many in-law apartments are either grandfathered or illegal but the local building department is usually not obligated to search for them but you should avoid fighting with your tenant.

    What you are describing is essentially the same as renting a room with a bathroom but also providing some small appliances and perhaps a sink. You will find the combination kitchen units very expensive and they might trigger the second dwelling unit rule.

    My concern with small appliances is the increased risk of fire from several electric resistance heating devices sitting on a counter. Choosing small ones might increase the risk since they would be designed for lighter duty use. You don't want your tenant leaving a crock pot on all day. Stipulate in the lease or list of rules that there can be no unattended cooking. That is the cause of the largest number of residential fires in the US.

    At the very least you should provide two new 20 amp GFI circuits for the appliances. and keep flammable materials like curtains a safe distance from the counter.

    If you get a permit for the bathroom do that first.

    You're still young; things will improve.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    "In most jurisdictions a second stove makes the dwelling a 2 family even if the tenant is related to you. That would require a 2 hour separation between the units."

    Where do you live? I've never heard of a second stove making a dwelling a 2 family unit in the United States. A 2 hour separation between the units? What does that mean?

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    Of course the dogs stay ;)

    I would share the kitchen. I would not do small appliances due to fire hazards.

    Maybe you're in an area where someone might want to rent space as a workshop or artist studio or need a place to start a business or something (not involving commercial foot traffic, just a place to set up shop). That might be more comfortable than living with a stranger.

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    9 years ago

    You may already know this so I apologize if being too basic, but if you are 66, you are within that time frame of being able to begin drawing your social security and keep all of it with no penalty for continuing to work full time. It's all yours to keep no matter what your other earned income is, there is no limit on what you can make while still getting your full check every month. Of course you would pay income tax on it, but at least a part of it should be at a lower rate than your paycheck from your job.

    I know it's not what you asked but I wondered if its something you had considered. "(If you were born between 1/2/1943 and 1/1/1955, your full retirement age is 66 years.)" Nothing is deducted from your monthly payments for continuing to work.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    My understanding is that SS pays out more if you don't draw until 67 vs. 65 and even to 72. Is this different if you continue to work but draw? Suze Orman advises to wait.

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    9 years ago

    Full retirement age for those years of birth - 1943-1955 - is 66. The amount is adjusted for those years the recipient continues to work while receiving SS benefits and will increase annually, separate from the cost of living adjustment those years one is offered (1.7% this year)

    I'm not an SS expert. But, it just takes an appointment or time to make a phone call, and the amounts, increases, anything that would change with another year of age would be laid out clearly if someone knows to ask. Everyone's circumstances and needs are different and I wouldn't get so personal as press the OP for details - but asking for the figures doesn't involve any commitment.

  • Vertise
    9 years ago

    This must be what Suze Orman is talking about; beyond a full retirement benefit timeline, you can increase your benefit by as much as 8% by waiting longer.

    Here is a link that might be useful: delayed retirement increases SS benefit

  • gmp3
    9 years ago

    I would find out about the zoning first. If an apartment is possible then I would call some contractors from Angie's list and pick their brains for the best way to accomplish your goals, they may be able to see a less expensive solution that makes more sense. You may find a few HD cabinets and a mini fridge and stove are cheaper than the unit. You will also get some bids from them for the project.

    Good luck!

  • AtomicJay007
    9 years ago

    First of all, please ignore the advice to get rid of one or more dogs. If you are like me, pets are part of the family and by adopting them, you have "contracted" to care for them for life. The suggestion to abandon a pet as it enters old age is downright cruel. Additionally, the savings will hardly amount to the $600-$900/month of additional income you are seeking. It doesn't sound like you are considering abandoning your pets and I applaud you for that.

    As to the question you've actually asked, I do agree with the advice that you find out what is lawfully allowed in your jurisdiction. Not knowing where you live makes it somewhat difficult to give advice as to how stringent the rules may be in your area. Generally speaking, most larger cities have fairly strict restrictions on the creation of second living quarters. In my area, the key consideration is whether the 2nd area has a kitchen. I know it seems odd, but that is where they draw the line here. You can build additional rooms, remodel, etc., but at the point you create a 2nd space with a 2nd kitchen, you must receive a variance, which are rarely granted.

    If you have nosy neighbors, any work they see taking place at your home without a posted permit may trigger a call to the local city inspector. If you do this work without the proper permits, you will be required to remove it and likely pay a fine. Unlike some others here, I have no objection to your proposal, just be smart about it and do it right.

    One last thing: if you do decide to move forward without the proper permitting and somehow your tenant is injured or causes damages to your home (fire) you insurance WILL deny the claim. They have many disclaimers from damages caused by or to unpermitted spaces. Worst case scenario, you could be sued and lose your home, your wages could be garnished, etc. This is not an undertaking to take lightly.

  • handymac
    9 years ago

    llucy---to answer your question, the two hour separation is for a fire block. The common walls/doors have to be constructed to provide a two hour time before allowing flames to access the opposite side.

    Adding living space is almost completely location regulated. Adding rental/leasing space is usually part of a different set of laws/building codes.

    If the adding is done without permits(meaning the work and extra people are legal in the building), the city/local authorities can fine/arrest/require removal/all of those.

    So, to be safe, first contact the applicable codes office. Also, contact your homeowners insurance company. If one or the other says no, the smartest thing would be to find another plan.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    Thank you handymac for the info. My house has a spare fridge and range in a utility room. Range is seldom used. I also know people who've put appliances in finished basements and other spaces - never heard that doing that would automatically make it 2 family dwelling.

    Very much agree the OP should look into all possible ramifications before proceeding with either plan.

  • hilltop_gw
    9 years ago

    I'm the poster who suggested one alternative of finding another home for one or more dogs as one alternative. I didn't suggest "abandoning" them as another poster implied.

    Pets are a luxury that not all can afford. Dog food and vet bills can be expensive. If a person is not able to meet their own basic needs or that of their pets, then re-homing is one consideration. Just as some people go to homeless shelters, there are resources out there such as petfinder, pet shelters, rescuers or even craigslist. People rehome pups and dogs for various reasons.

    I wish the original poster luck in making her household changes and finding additional income. I'm sorry if my comments were taken out of context or if offended anyone.

    This post was edited by hilltop on Fri, Jan 16, 15 at 18:29

  • joslin44
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Ok, so here is a bit of reality for those of you who responded about using my Social Security for the "extra" income I need. I "qualify" for full SS since I am 65, but they have denied my benefits because of ----my income. That's right. You see, if you work all your life, put yourself through undergrad all on your own for 15 years, then go to grad school for 6 years while adopting a baby at age 37, followed by working for a few incompetent and/or unethical bosses, move on to starting your own agency, and eventually becoming a little bit successful at what you do -- you are PENALIZED for it when you NEED some of that money back you've paid to SS all those years. Yes, I "make" a good income, but what I actually take home to pay my bills is not always enough, despite living a pretty frugal life. Therefore, like I said when I posted this question, I will always have to work, and am simply looking for the simplest/best/easiest way to stay in my own home by turning some of the space into income. I feel like I deserve this. I am leaning toward buying a free standing kitchenette (by Acme or Summit, which are very popular in NYC/Hong Kong where space is a real premium). This would require simply putting a lock on a common door, adding some minor electrical and plumbing, and living in half of my home while renting the other half to a medical/grad student. Are there foreseeable problems? Perhaps! But moving out of my home is not an option. And this could pay for half of my mortgage, making that payment below what I would have to pay for a smaller rental house in an undesirable neighborhood if I did move. Not exactly feeling the love from some of you posters, but to those of you who offered encouragement, I thank you.

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    9 years ago

    I'm mildly confused, mostly about your age. If you are 65 and have not reached the first day of the month in which your 66th birthday falls, then yes, there is a limit to how much you can earn without losing benefits for the rest of that year. If as I had thought, you have reached that month of your 66th birthday, that changes....there is no limit on earnings.

    I would only hope you would have all the correct figures in front of you, whether eligible or close to eligible, and also for what your outlay would be compared to your potential return if you alter your primary residence. We have a small business so I do understand the difference between gross and net. I wish you the best, if you begin a remodel I think you can find some suggestions here if you will come back with any concerns.

  • llucy
    9 years ago

    Your post inspired me to Google all-in-one kitchens. Some are way cool. Wish I had the space on my lower level - would be perfect for guests and entertaining. It's not unusual for people to take on a housemate to reduce expenses. I think you would be wise to look into what kind of liability you would have with your homeowner's insurance though. Best wishes to you.

  • jellytoast
    9 years ago

    joslin44, maybe you don't need to add a kitchen at all. My sister rented a small apartment for years that had no kitchen, just a hot plate and a dorm-sized fridge. She was a med student and did not need a full kitchen. Having her own affordable, quite space was most important to her.

    Regarding the all-in-one kitchen, I rented an apartment once that had the entire kitchen in a closet with bi-fold doors. It was awesome!!

  • joslin44
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you!

  • lee676
    9 years ago

    There are some areas in my parts that have that 2nd kitchen rule too. It isn't heavily enforced, although there's an annoying realtor who works this area that tattles on anyone she finds violating any minor restriction of that sort. What I'm wondering though is at what point does it technically become a kitchen rather than just a few portable appliances like a dual hotplate, a small fridge, a toaster oven, a countertop microwave, and a nearby sink that's outside a bathroom?

    There's nothing inherently "ghetto" about creating an attached apartment - there are several million-plus dollar homes around here that have them - but a second entrance that leads to a unattached area definitely sets off additional regulations you must meet, higher taxes, and the like. Where I live the apartment must have its own address, and of course meet code for electrical, plumbing, fire safety, and window size and location.

  • kudzu9
    9 years ago

    You do really need to consult with your local permitting authority about what is allowed. It's not always obvious what is and isn't allowed, and one uninformed decision can jeopardize a whole project. If you get even one permit for any of this work, an inspector could flag something else you have done that gets noticed, whether it is to code or not. You don't want to spend money and then have it turn into a fiasco by not being able to finish...or be required to tear out something that has just been done.

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