I'd let the GC figure it out, rather than offer suggestions from the 'net. That being said, I wonder if that downspout could use an elbow (left), since it's so close to the flashing. Just a guess, assuming that the tie-in an flashing were done properly.

I don't understand the leak location you are describing but 3 months ago I told you of my concern about the irregular flashing detail at the new roof and the existing brick wall:

"It will be interesting to see if water that normally gets into the existing brick cavity above the addition, drains into the house. Usually, the only solution (short of replacing all of the brick above the addition and weeping the cavity above the new roof) is to install a drain trough to catch this water at the head of the new brick opening and carry it to the outside .... I couldn't see how the brick over the openings was supported or how that detail was flashed. Is it a loose steel lintel with no flashing? If it is attached to the frame it would need careful waterproofing attention."

Is the leak below or near any of the flashing described above? I hope not because adding thru-wall brick cavity flashing or a drain channel would be expensive.

To accurately see the problem, you will need to pull the insulation out of the area. It should come out anyway if it's wet.
Ron

I would suspect the window where the sill meets the brick ledge. Water could be seeping behind the ledge, down the small part of the exterior wall, and running down into the sunroom off of the valley rafters. Water leaks can travel down rafters extensively making the pinpoint difficult at times. You really need an up close and personal inspection by your g.c. or an experienced third party.

I'm a total novice here, but gravitate to these threads I suppose out of curiosity & because I have suffered my share of water problems that could have/should have been avoided - I also love reading mightyanvils response & he has helped me in the past.

I personally have gotten pretty good at finding sources of water problems/leaks - I have highly tuned ears and follow w/intuition the physics of water - I also, turn overhead lights out & get out the good ol mag light which I find tremdendously helpful.

That said - on first look at photo -my eye went right to the flashing (remember I'm a novice) - But I repaired 2 flat roofs last spring so had to research - I think my neighbors got a kick out of seeing a woman covered in asphalt based product - in a 1/3 acre zoning where women are stay at home with full time help and would NEVER be on a roof for any reason - sorry I digress

Flashing (step flashing) needs to go up under siding and make a 90 degree to meet roofing - I thinks it is something like 6" overlap & 4" lap up vertical wall & then roofing material needs to be applied on top of that

I did not see/read mightyanvils prior post - that would prove to be interesting i'm sure

A little web searching see if any helps:

THis is a response on a bay window ? but I think it addresses what I see on your siding/roof
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Home-Improvement-General-688/2008/7/bay-window-water-penetration-1.htm

http://dryflekt.com/

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f16/best-way-retro-flash-roof-against-wood-siding-wall-27267/

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f16/chimney-flashing-photos-needed-brick-and-stone-done-correctly-21398/

http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?p=55806#post55806

http://www.ibacos.com/pubs/RoofFlashingGuidelines.pdf

Additionally get the GC (and keep records of conversations etc)there ASAP and get any wet insulation out - that is harboring & growing mold/spores which will cause havoc in that space and spread to others
locate any previuos specs/contracts w/said GC

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: flashing chimneys

I see where the hall is now and it is where I feared it would be.

I would say there is a very good chance that rainwater is getting into the brick cavity (it's supposed to) and it is draining down into the hall attic because your contractor did not install the necessary "thru-wall flashing" that would force the water to exit the cavity above the roof-to-wall intersection. I have often seen this when tearing off an old addition along with evidence of water damage.

The flashing set into a groove in the brick at this location only keeps surface rainwater from getting under the roofing shingles; it does nothing to prevent water from draining into the house behind the face brick. Brick cavities must always be drained (weeped) to the exterior unless they are under unusually large overhangs in a dry climate. It is also possible that the groove cut into the brick is drawing water into the cavity.

You could try to seal the brick or increase the roof overhang. Be sure to check the cornice design and gutter to see if they are directing water into the cavity. Also check the adjacent window head and sill to see if they are adding water to the cavity (the ends of horizontal flashing at brick openings are sometimes not adequately stopped.

Another solution is to add a drain channel to carry the water to an interior drain but it is subject to failure if the water cannot be adequately collected or if the drain clogs and the increased humidity might cause deterioration of the wood framing.

The obvious permanent repair would be to remove the brick above the roof, add thru-wall flashing, and reinstall the brick. It would be important to prevent water from traveling horizontally along this flashing and leaking into the attic farther down the wall.

The contractor owes you a solution for free in my opinion.

Thanks everyone for your responses. I've read a lot of jejvtr's links and tried to understand how the flashing is all supposed to work. Here's my attempt to summarize what I think I know now. Let me know if I've got it right.

1. Either there's water getting behind the flashing and down into the ceiling, or the normal water that leaches into the (porous) brick is running down the inside of the brick and then, where it's touching the framing that's attached to it, is running out and into the attic cavity.
2a. If it's getting behind the flashing, we need to seal that up better.
2b. If it's running down inside the brick and back out, through-wall flashing is supposed to prevent that, and bring any water back out to the roof above where the roof meets the wall.

Given the circumstances of this leak (fierce rain, as opposed to earlier normal rains, which never leaked), is there any way to tell which cause is more likely? The wall behind the window in the photo above is still open on the inside (we're doing plumbing), and there's no evidence of water on the wall. Any clues there?

The former exterior brick of the house is still all in place, and we simply furred it out and drywalled over it. So I take it the GC should have added through-wall flashing. He still has not returned our calls.

We added an extension to the existing drainpipe shown, in case the excess of water caused more to get into the nooks and crannies than normal.

What about water getting in through the ridge vents...is that likely/possible?

Weedy

Glad that was of help - again I'm a novice so I don't want to give advice especially since this really requires a site visit - perhaps several -
In any event I'm concerned about your GC not returning calls - do you owe any $? how many msgs have you left?
Is he local - I would advise showing up at his office when you know he is there or his local coffee shop or house - this needs to be addressed

Good luck

I am a plumber, so i tend to notice plumbing things
what are those pipes tied togather on the roof for?
was that for a plumbing test? is the test over?
and i was wondering about the roof to the bidg step flashing. i didn't see any

Yup, I was waiting for someone to mention the vents tied together up there.

And it could be lack of step flashing, as you say (or bad/wrong flashing altogether). That would be a good problem to have, as opposed to the "through-wall" flashing possibility. Time to open up the ceiling inside and see. If it rains, all the better for observation purposes.

The pipes on the roof are probably the vents to the guest bath. I can't tell from the photo whether they're connected or the angle of the camera just makes them look so. None of my other gazillion photos shed any light, I can't remember off the top of my head, and it's dark outside now, so I'll go check it out in the daytime. That was pre-existing.

Frodo: What do you mean by "roof to bidg step flashing"? Is bidg a typo?

I am sooooo not looking forward to letting down 20 bags of cellulose.

I think he means that the angled roof isn't flashed with step flashing. Take a look at this site and notice that the flashing is not a single piece:

http://www.roof.cc/html/step_flashing.html

...but it "might" be step-flashed afterall - hard to tell from the photo (or my screen isn't large enough)

Here's the "underside". Does that look better?

Yes, it is step-flashed. (good thing you have pics)

its a typo..bldg. building..my space bar sticks or my thumb malfunctions

Here's an update: the contractor finally came by a few days ago after multiple phone calls by my DH and a missed connection while we were on vacation. DH showed him around, asked if he thought hard blowing rain could be getting in through the ridge vents and down the trusses. He said maybe, but suspected that the water was leaching into the brick and transferring onto the framing. He suggested sealing the brick with a product DH didn't write down.

Ironically, that same afternoon we had another fierce wind/rainstorm, and got the same leak. DH also saw this photo I had taken while we were blowing in the cellulose, that shows the roof underside.

See that truss that's flush against the chimney? That's where the water is coming down (7 feet this way from it, at the bottom, of course). So we suspect the culprit is the chimney brick. Current plan is to get the name of the sealer from the GC and try that on the chimney as well as the walls. Any further opinions/advice?

Water is supposed to pass though brick and drain down to the bottom of the cavity. If the bottom of the cavity is your ceiling instead of the foundation wall, there is little you can do to correct the problem other than to add a drain. A sealer might help a bit but it is too little too late and preventing the escape of moisture from the face brick is never wise.

How would you go about adding a drain? Can you put through-wall flashing in a chimney?

BTW, for those asking about the vents in the first photo, they're not tied together, that's just the angle of the camera. One vent goes straight up and one goes over and bends down.

I don't know exactly how your brick is installed or exactly where the leak is or what is causing it but I can tell you that in any brick cavity wall system there MUST be through-wall flashing where the brick wall penetrates a roof in order to force water out to the cavity so it won't continue to travel downward into the roof system and cause damage. Maybe that is not what is causing the leak but that would be my first assumption.

I hope you will forgive me for reminding you again that I told you this would be a problem when the roof was being installed; I don't mean to be insulting; but seeing photographs of aluminum roof flashing stuck to the side of a brick cavity wall with sticky stuff really upsets me; it's simply a foolish, unprofessional, boneheaded thing for a builder to do.

I run into this problem in so many houses and it is so difficult to detail that I now refuse to work on brick houses unless the owner is willing to remove and replace all of the brick on any wall above an addition. So far only three have agreed to do that but the projects turned out great.

I suspect that if the cavity drainage is the problem, even with a well designed drain, high humidity in the attic space will cause mold eventually.

At this point I would recommend hiring a waterproofing consultant or an architect to study the problem and recommend a solution. Who was the original designer? It would be interesting to look at the original roof to wall detail but from the work I see I suppose no one even thought to draw one.

Yes, mightyanvil, you gave me a warning in my earlier post. I also asked you a couple follow-up questions to understand what you were saying I needed, and you never responded. I'm not trying to blame you (after all, I'm not paying for your advice), but I don't believe it's really fair to blame me for not listening to you, as I tried, but had insufficient information.

Moving on, the current situation is what it is and we've got to fix it. The plans called for the flashing to be cut into the brick, and that's what they did (it's not just glued to the outside). The prints didn't spec through-wall flashing on the chimney. That does spark an idea, though: to talk to the original architect and see what he thinks. I'll give him a call and ask.

So can we remedy this with through-wall flashing after the fact? What would this entail? Can we pull some brick out, put in the flashing and brick it up again? Any limitations to doing this on a chimney?

Well, I have no idea if anyone is still following this thread, but I always feel obliged to close the loop on my GW threads just in case. DH climbed up on the roof and caulked the edge of the top row of shingles where it meets the flashing. The next night we had a pretty powerful wind/rain storm and the next morning the floor was dry. So we think that might have nailed it.

He bought some brick sealer, so we're going to live through one more rainstorm before we claim victory and close up the ceiling completely with the planking. Also, haven't decided whether to apply the brick sealer if this caulk seems to have done the trick.

Out here, the picture showing where the shingles are over the flashing at the face of the chimney is correct, ( where the flashing follows the pitch of the roof), but the horizontal flashings typically, (L-flashing), is installed over the shingles,( where your husband caulked the shingles last row). You have a few tricky transitions concerning where the shingles should go under the flashing, over the flashing, as well as the valley flashing.This is where it's important to use strategically place self adhered flashings such as w.r.grace ice shield types. If the caulking holds, fine, but you will want to check up on it often as relying solely on caulking isn't a permanent fix. You should have the horizontal flashings installed correctly by pulling up all the shingles in that area as well as the valley and face of the chimney as well as any other area that has an improper install and get some self adhering flashing in there while you are at it. All flashings have to be installed lapped, water runs down hill, so install accordingly. Otherwise plan on caulking at least once a year before the wet season.

Weedy, I dont think i can comprehensively explain the proper install of the flashings/underlayment in those areas here. If you like, you can e-mail me or maybe someone else can explain it to you. Appearently your builder isn't on board with this? It might be well worth the money to get a decent, reputable roofing contractor in and make the proper install in those areas. Before self adhering flashings were around,( or before we were aware of them), we used mastics coinciding with the underlayments in those areas before the mechanical flashings. Some roofers even hot mopped underlayments as well. I think your best bet is to seek out an experienced roofer, or again, feel free to e-mail me and maybe i can explain it in detail: blockm@verizon.net

From the beginning I have not been able to understand how your roof was flashed and you have provided photos but no section details. All the photos show me are things that make little sense. Is the flashing bare aluminum, coated aluminum, stainless steel? Is there any self-adhering flexible base flashing and was it installed with a primer on the brick? Is the top of the step flashing set in a cut in the brick or is there counter-flashing over the step flashing and it is set into a cut in the brick? How is the flashing held and sealed in the brick cut? When the flashing is horizontal, how much does it overlap the top edge of the roofing shingles and/or is there a shingle course over the bottom part of the flashing to hide it? Where the step flashing is sloped how much does it extend under the roofing shingles? Does the chimney have a drainage cavity behind the face brick? Are there weeps at the bottom brick course of the chimney?

None of this is clear from the photos. All I can tell is that there is probably no thru-wall flashing so if everything else is properly detailed I have to assume water is running down the cavity and into the roof system but that is just an assumption based on other similar condtions that I have seen.

When you say you caulked the top edge of the shingles are you talking about the sloped edge or the horizontal/level edge? If it is horizontal, why would there be a joint there to caulk? This question goes back to the question about a shingle course that hides the flashing which I hope is not the case.

When I don't respond it's because there are too many possibilities for the existing conditions and guessing would be pointless. The most important step in problem solving is defining the problem because it allows others to fully participate.

I would not add caulking or brick sealer and assume the problem is solved. You need to understand why it fixed the problem. Caulking and sealer, if they did solve the problem, would need to be replaced every few years which will probably occur only after the ceiling was damaged again.

If an architect designed this he/she should have been the first person you asked about this problem.

First of all, thanks to both of you for sticking with me and trying to help step me through diagnosing this. We're pretty intrepid DIY-ers, and have tackled all manner of inside jobs, but on the structural/outside stuff, we're definitely on a learning curve about all the details and how they should be done. That's why we hired out the shell--in hopes that an expert would get it all right. So thanks for your patience.

I appreciate the pointer that caulk is merely a temporary countermeasure and not a root cause fix. The roof was put in by a roofing sub, and we've got another call into the GC to come back and make it right.

I will pose all of your questions to the GC or roofer, or DH may climb out on the roof and pull up a bit of the roof to see, but here are the answers that I do know:
-The top course of the horizontal shingles are, indeed, over top of the flashing. That's what DH caulked. Don't know at what point (layer) the flashing is over top of the shingles.
-The first layer of flashing (see photo earlier in the post) is aluminum, but don't know if it's bare or coated. That layer was inserted into the brick (photo above shows caulk, but that was temporary until the shingles were installed) and the white flashing was put over top of that. Again, don't know exactly what it laps over/under.
-No through-wall flashing was installed during the remodel. I don't know what pre-existed in the way of through-wall flashing or weep holes. Is there any way to tell by looking?

Sierra, I'm going to do some google research on self-adhesive flashings and try to get somewhat educated, and I'll take you up on your generous offer for more info if I can't figure it out from that sufficiently to request that fix from the GC/roofer.

At the horizontal roof to wall flashing:

The first or base layer of flashing should have been WR Grace's Ice & Water Shield (or equivalent self-adhering flexible flashing) set in WR Grace's WB Primer on the brick (otherwise it won't adhere). This is the most important part of the detail. Such a small roof should also have Ice & Water Shield as the roofing underlayment over the entire roof surface but if another kind of underlayment is used the Ice & Water Shield at this detail should overlap it. It should not be possible for water to get past this base waterproofing layer.

The next layer of flashing should have been a metal compatible with brick (not bare aluminum because as the least noble of all flashing metals it corrodes rapidly when in contact with standing water and/or mortar).

If there was no thru-wall flashing installed (would have required removing and replacing all brick above it) then there should have been a channel installed at the bottom of the cavity to allow water that might collect there to drain out of the building (some contractors think they can get away with a sealed cavity bottom where the water can sit and eventually dry out but success of this idea depends greatly on the porosity of the brick and the amount of rain and wind in the region). If this were the porblem the water would probably be found elsewhere but I can't be sure from the confusing descriptions and photos. Marked plans and section details are more useful.

The top layer of metal horizontal flashing must overlap the top of the roofing shingles for obvious reasons. It is possible to do this and then apply a decorative cap course of shingles over the flashing to hide it from view but that puts unprotected/unsealed holes in the flashing as well as the shingles and forces rainwater to be trapped at the top edge of the shingles until it slowly passes under the cosmetic cap shingle pat the holes. This is an extremely bad idea.

It is odd that a contractor would use a bright white flashing and then be concerned with how it looked on the shingles. It is customary to use a dark flashing in this location so it is not as noticeable.

If the horizontal metal flashing actually terminates under the top course of shingles and there is no flexible flashing below it, then you have probably found the cause of the problem. Two courses of shingles and the metal flashing should be removed and the system described above installed. I would use a heavy copper flashing for such a small length.

This is not a problem I originally considered because it is inconceivable to me that a roofing contractor would do something so foolish but if caulking the top edge really stops the leak, I guess it's possible.

When a contractor showed this kind of ignorance on a job site someone in the weekly coordination meeting would often ask if he owned his own truck. This roofer probably hitched a ride.

Arggghhh! The plot just thickened. First, an update: a roofer came and looked at our flashing. He said it was done correctly. The layers are: shingles, then aluminum flashing, then white flashing, then cosmetic half-row overlapping the white flashing. His guess was that the nail holes in the flashing weren't caulked.

Then a couple days ago we had another vicious wind/rainstorm. Shortly after it started, DH went downstairs to close the windows and found water leaking from over the both doorways on either side of the chimney(see photo showing the buckets he put out to collect the water).

These doorways are still open above, and a couple weeks ago we sprayed a lot of Great Stuff around there to seal it up, as we still had some air coming in. We've never had a leak come in through the doorways. Oh, and our original leak showed up again. Evidently the caulk didn't solve it after all. I have no idea why this leak has moved and have about given up on trying to figure out where it's coming from.

What trade do I need to get out to look at it and figure out how to fix it? Is it a mason, to redo the flashing and brick? Or a roofer? Or something else?

Shoot me now....

Weedy

I have been following this quietly since my orig response. You noted "a roofer came" Was this the orig or any way affliated w/GC or orig roofer - If yes to any of those ?'s The only other idea I have is to have a different roofer offer a consult - the other idea may be a house inspector - I would search for the most expert in your area given the situation. - You really do need a dectective.
The doorway in the above pic - Is that new renovation? Curious because if that is new, and awhile since the roofing was done - makes one wonder if that reno in that door area just invited water down that was leaking but not making it to that area
Have faith, there has to be a solution -
Good luck

I would suggest the same as jejvtr..........bring in a home inspector. We ran into a problem with a roofer in a previous home and brought in an independent inspector. He was a life saver!

Below are a few listings for your state.

Here is a link that might be useful: inspectors

If the door opening was cut into the brick veneer cavity wall and the brick was left above and to the sides of the opening, then the water that inevitably gets through the brick above the roof and is supposed to run down in the drainage cavity, is probably collecting at the lintel angle over the door and then dripping into the room. Any mason will tell you that this is the way brick veneer cavity walls are supposed to work.

Water might also be entering where the flashing was improperly installed at the roof to brick joint but that would probably cause water to be showing up lower down on the sloped ceiling rather than at the door head.

I suspect the reason no one is yet willing to explain the problem is because the only sure solution is to remove all of the brick and put it back with through-wall flashing the way any brick mason would have built it if it had been new construction.

You need to talk to someone who understands waterproofing, roofing and brickwork so I would suggest an architect or a commercial waterproofing consultant.

It is critical that the brick cavity is allowed to weep and that the weep locations are outside the building enclosure rather than inside as yours are.

Here are the Brick Institute recommendations for flashing your roof-to-wall flashing conditions including a chimney. Unfortunately the roofing is not asphalt shingles.

No matter how well you seal the brick, water will get into the cavity and if the seal is good and frequently replaced, moisture will become trapped in the brick and will not be able to dry to the outside. This solution can only work properly in warm climates with walls designed to dry to the inside.

You must always consider the climate and the whole wall system which is why you need a professional building designer for this kind of problem rather than individual tradesmen.

Here is a link that might be useful: Brick Institute details

When the new door openings were cut into the brick wall a new steel angle was installed (reversed) at the head to support the brick above and the brick above was left in place instead of removing it above the new roof line and installing through-wall flashing just above that line, then replacing the brick.

I was forced to do this once because of too much difficult-to-match brick above a new addition and installed a trough to divert the water to one side and down to a crawl space; not a proper solution but so far there have been no complaints. In your case, it doesn't seem like it would have been prohibitive to remove and replace the brick above the roof. I would think the project designer owes you an explanation, not the roofer or the mason.

Don't know where Weedy went
But MA - Love following your responses - I know who to look to when I have a problem -
Thanks for your passion for proper building & all of your 1st hand advice :)

An idea - if you get a home inspector to check it out, find one with an IR camera - this can be really helpful in identifying the source/extent of a water problem.

Thanks, all. I haven't fallen off the face of the earth, and I still appreciate your replies. The hold-up to getting an inspector out and a professional opinion on how to fix is my DH. Bless his heart, he's not convinced the water is leaching through the brick, so he's trying to do some DIY diagnosis in a scientific manner, changing one thing at a time and seeing if that makes a difference. He extended the drainspout so it extends all the way to the gutter and we haven't had a leak the last 3 rains. However, none of those have been driving rains, so we have to wait until we get the next one to prove to him that it's not the gushing of the water off the roof above that's causing the problem. He also wants to seal the brick to see if that makes a difference, but it hasn't been dry enough for long enough to do that yet. ;-[

I think I'm going to call the architect surreptitiously and get his read on all of this. I'm tired of how long this has all dragged on.

jejvtr: That doorway used to be a window, and we made it into french doors (one set on either side of chimney). It's the one in mightyanvil's posted photo that has the steel beam embedded above it.

We've had one driving rain since DH extended the downspout like so, and we haven't had a recurrence of the original leak.

DH is feeling happy about it, I'm still considering the jury's out until a couple more sample rains, and the architect thinks that could well have addressed the potential that water was dumping onto the roof and getting pushed underneath the shingles (then down through the nail holes).

Speaking of the architect, who I called out last week to assess our leak issue...his assessment was that the water that's leaching through the brick into the air space is collecting in the spray foam we put up and dripping through the gaps (guess we didn't get it 100%) above the french door area.

His suggested remedy:

Basically, put a piece of gutter in over the french doors to catch the drips and divert them to the air space at the side of the doors, which then goes into the crawl space.

He also recommended a brick sealer by Prosoco called Siloxane pd, which reportedly keeps water from getting in but also allows water to get out.

Any opinions on his recommendations?

Sorry Weedy, but every time you show that pic, now with the extended gutter, the way the shingles are lapped over the flashing to the immediate left and to the right of the gutter, Im scratching my noggin' thiking that is the source of the leak(s). I've never seen it done like that, nor have I ever flashed out like that on roof to wall connects, and I'm here in the mojave desert!

The brick seal sounds like a band aid fix that will require periodic maintenance. I'll always believe it's a flashing problem that once solved, you should never have to worry about it in your lifetime if done properly.

Hopefully I'm wrong and your architect is correct or that someone else will come up with the fix, but I would re-think the flashing. Going back up to our build tomorrow, best of luck with the rest of your project!