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kellienoelle

Opinions on easement please

kellienoelle
11 years ago

We are seriously considering putting an offer on a new (100 year old) home, but there is one area that has been giving us pause. By all appearances the house has a lovely side yard with a nice long curved driveway to a garage on the side/back of the house. We are moving from the suburbs to a more urban space, so loved the extra green space this property offers. Turns out that the largest part of the side yard and property that the driveway lies on is actually an easement owned by the city. So, we get to use it, maintain it, landscape it, enjoy it, etc., but we don't get taxed on it. We also can't do anything "permanent" on it. So, our plans to put in an underground sprinkler system or fence in the yard will have to be changed to incorporate only our property. This is completely a foreign concept to me. Maybe it is absolutely no big deal, but I would like to know if anybody else has any experiences/thoughts.

And since a picture is worth a thousand words, and I am probably not explaining this properly, hopefully this clarifies. So the actual property of the house is pretty much just a few feet to the side of the house(pretty much the same as on the other side next to the yellow house). All that space to the side is not.
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And a closer pic of the driveway to give a better idea of what I am talking about.
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Is this a problem?

Comments (26)

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    What can the City do with the easement if they so choose?

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Well, there is a contract with the City Parks and Rec Dept that exists essentially until the house is condemned or destroyed (or so the real estate agent tells me). I guess what happened is the city changed the traffic patterns and took out a street to add in some green space and get rid of a traffic nightmare. This was the street that the driveway connected to, essentially "landlocking" the house, so thus the easement to give them access off of the property.

    But yours is the million dollar question and exactly what I am concerned about. I don't know what they legally can do if they choose to. This is an unfamiliar concept to me and google is really only telling me the other side of the story (there is an easement on my property and my neighbors can drive through it and I don't like it).

    We do have a copy of the contract with the city so I will have a lawyer review it.

  • kirkhall
    11 years ago

    You can do that (have the lawyer look it over)
    You can also offer to purchase the land from the city. You'd then have to pay taxes on it, but you could do as you choose.

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    That's a thought but I'd also have to pay for it (the land). This house is at the top of our budget as it is, so the fact that we are getting a "free" bigger plot of land is kind of nice, even if we don't officially own it. Guess it doesn't hurt to ask though

    But, as most people know nothing is free. So the concern is what happens if they do decide to have a plan for that area that changes.

  • sylviatexas1
    11 years ago

    gorgeous house!

    If the price is right, I my own self would put in the offer, get the contract executed, & then consult the attorney during your option period.

    My *guess* would be that the city has an obligation to keep the area open so the homeowner has access to the property.

    & I'd also guess the city would be agreeable to your installing a sprinkler system, as long as you pay for it & maintain it.

  • word_doc
    11 years ago

    Once I saw the house, I had trouble concentrating on your question. GORGEOUS house. Wow. I guess your best bet is running it by the attorney so you have a full understanding of how it will affect you, but I would be surprised if this turned out to be a problem. I have lived in neighborhoods where the county owned an easement similar to this on a neighbor's land and it was never an issue. Around here, they always own the first 10-15 feet from the street, anyway. Good luck (buy the house--it's gorgeous!)!!

  • brickeyee
    11 years ago

    "If the price is right, I my own self would put in the offer, get the contract executed, & then consult the attorney during your If the price is right, I my own self would put in the offer, get the contract executed, & then consult the attorney during your If the price is right, I my own self would put in the offer, get the contract executed, & then consult the attorney during your option period. "

    Not all states have an "option period."
    in Virginia (ad may others) you sign the purchase agreement ad negotiations are OVER.
    No 'attorney review' no 'option period' unless they are IN the now signed contract.

  • palimpsest
    11 years ago

    Can they condemn the house to change the traffic pattern again? Condemnation does not only turn on the condition of the house. They may be able to condemn the house if they come up with something better to do with the easement.

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    I don't "think" they would do that, behind the house is a much loved and coveted trail that the city keeps expanding. The REA pointed out how nice it was to have the trail as a "neighbor" instead of another house because the city would always protect the land. I know I know, REA will say what you want to hear to get you into the house, but on this I tend to believe him. They even turned down a bid for adding a Whole Foods (which would be a very welcome addition in this particular community) because of the traffic that would have to cross their trail to get into the parking lot.

    But, I will never underestimate what the "city" could do. Could they condemn the house???? What would they base that on??? See, these are the things that I fear. My BIL is fortunately a lawyer, so we'll forward over the document for him to review.

    And, I agree that the house is just so lovely but am worried that it's loveliness is clouding my judgement! The inside is even moreso, they hand scraped and restored all the 100 year old moldings and it is beautiful.

  • sylviatexas1
    11 years ago

    Cities can condemn anything regardless of easements;
    google Cowboys Stadium Eminent Domain if you want your hair to stand on end.

    If your state has a provision for a termination option, you can use that, & if it doesn't (curious to know what states don't allow a buyer the right to terminate), check with your Realtor & maybe your BIL about adding one.

    If your Realtor is your buyer rep, (s)he isn't just "saying what you want to hear".
    She really means it, & I agree.

    I hope you don't lose the chance to get that house because someone else puts it under contract while you're worrying about things that can be dealt with after you secure the right to purchase it.

    I wish you the best.

    (If/when you get the house, please post interior pics here.)

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    So, the BIL reviewed the info, and the terms of agreement are for 50 years. I'll either be dead or senile by then! He didn't see anything concerning with the easement. However, the other oddity is that we'd be required to carry residential general liability insurance of $2 million. Huh? That seems excessive. So he suggested that we check with our Homeowners insurance.

    But I agree that checking here checking there will likely be while somebody less paranoid is making an offer on the house. We are going back to re-look this afternoon, so we'll see....

  • sheilajoyce_gw
    11 years ago

    What a beautiful house and beautiful neighborhood. In the spring, summer and fall when the trees have leaves, it will be doubly so.

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Oh, and to see just a few pics of the inside, you can click on the pic to view more. They aren't very good or very many since I soon discovered that the pics I snapped with my phone weren't going to be as good as the professional photos. There are also a couple of videos that I took for my mother so she could see how busy the street is (another thing I was initially concerned about but have decided that isn't a big deal). I'll try to take a couple more today.

    But the "feel" of the house isn't something that conveys in the pics, if that makes sense. Have you ever gone into a strange home and it just feels like you should stay there? But I am trying to be sensible and not overlook something that is problematic because I am in love (or lust, haha!)

  • sylviatexas1
    11 years ago

    Many people carry umbrella policies for high liability limits.
    not a big problem.

  • OttawaGardener
    11 years ago

    Absolutely lovely inside too. I wouldn't be able to resist this home!

    We raised our kids in a brick 1903 house, and loved all its quirks and charm. We even put a claw-foot tub in our current 1950s home because we liked our old one.

  • sylviatexas1
    11 years ago

    "I am trying to be sensible and not overlook something that is problematic"

    There's a book called "The Gift of Fear" that postulates that fear is a self-preservation mechanism;
    it is our perceptive brain telling us to run or fight or whatever.

    Our logical/analytical brain likes to argue with our perceptive brain & can make us hesitate long enough for the boogie man to get us.

    or for the opportunity to be snatched up by someone else.

    & our logical/analytical brain always insiste it's being "sensable".

    When your perceptive brain is telling you that the house feels right, maybe the dang house is right.

    I wish you the best.

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    sylviatexas - I LOVE that breakdown. I may steal that from you. It is a much more romantic way to explain what I simply call analysis paralysis.

    But, I went back and looked at the house, then I went and looked at another which the REA holding the open house said was done by a "flipper". My logical mind was telling me why it was better (location on a quieter street, better master bathroom), but my perceptive mind was realizing that while it was "fine", I was in somebody elses house (plus I could have stained the woodwork better than the "flipper" so wonder where else he cut corners). So I called the local RE expert who I had decided on in August when we first started this process, she is sending her pro photographer this week and we'll be listed by the end of the week. Left a message for the other agent about putting an offer on this house. And basically feeling like I am ready to jump out of my skin in the meantime!

  • c9pilot
    11 years ago

    I say definitely find out what the eminent domain law might be that governs your town/city/county/state.

    Many local, and up to state I believe, governments enacted laws after the IMHO disastrous Supreme Court ruling on Kelo vs City of New London. You might be protected from condemnation if a new law was passed.

    (Incidentally - the Kelo home was moved and the economic development never came to pass, so the currently empty lot is generating zero revenue for the city.)

  • jane__ny
    11 years ago

    We recently purchased a house in Florida. During the title search we found the County had an easement which ran along one side of the house. Actually 5ft of the entire left side of the house was on the easement.

    Our lawyer submitted paperwork requiring the County to sign off the land. They agreed to sign off but left a provision that if they had to access the water drain, they would as it was a common drain. The house does not sit over the drain but out AC does. They would retain the right to remove it to access the drain.

    We felt comfortable buying the house. I'm not sure I would feel as comfortable with your situation. I would worry what could happen over time. I think I would get legal advice to see if you have any recourse from the Town.

    Lovely house, good luck,
    Jane

  • lazy_gardens
    11 years ago

    Go talk to the city ... by "permanent" they might mean things with concrete foundations and such, and fences and sprinkler systems might be OK. I had a chunk of land where the city retained an easement, and they were OK with fences, but they reserved the right to come in and repair the city water pipes that ran under that part. So we had to do things that could be moved or repaired easily.

    But we are NOT in a position to help you because we can't see the complete terms of the easement.

  • doug_gb
    11 years ago

    I (and about 25 other homes) are on a lake, in Minneapolis. The park board owns land ajacent to our properties.

    I can tell you that you are at the mercy of what the elected or appointed officials decide. You can enjoy many hassle free years, then all of a sudden there's a new board and they decide to make your life hell.

    The only way to deal with the city is to buy the land, or have a specific written agreement.

    I don't think the city has any reason to negotiate with you at all. I wouldn't buy the home.

  • Pipersville_Carol
    11 years ago

    I don't think you need to buy the land from the city. You could ask the city to vacate the easement.

    I was on the planning board of a small town years ago, and a local bed and breakfast had an easement in their side yard for a road the city had thought about building decades ago. They wanted to improve a garage that was near the end of the easement, but didn't want to invest the money with the easement in place.

    They went before the planning board and were able to get the easement vacated. I think they had to pay for site plans out of their own pocket and it did take some time, but it got done.

  • kirkhall
    11 years ago

    2 million on a homeowners policy is getting to be more standard (1mil is fairly standard, 2million would not be uncommon or cost-prohibitive). Did you speak with your insurance agent?

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    We did, and oddly enough, our home owners insurance would have been less with that policy than it currently is. We have given up the dream on this particular house. There are some unknowns about the situation that just makes us uncomfortable.

    Of course now we have sold our home so will be homeless, so maybe we'll have to revisit this at some time!

  • traceee
    11 years ago

    WOW....you sold your home fast?!!! I'm not surprised as it is so lovely!

  • kellienoelle
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Tell me about it, it never got listed but still sold. And frankly I am quite stressed about founding a house now. Maybe I'll just end up pitching myself a little tent on that easement!