whatever the documents say ..

which would be.. whatever the parties agree to ...

and if you let them stay in YOUR HOUSE ... be sure to have complete insurance ...

and consider charging them rent .... if they want a lot of time ...

if they need more time to get out.. move the closing date ...

all that said.. i seem to recall closing something like 12/23 .. and taking occupancy two weeks later .... but i swear i walked out of the closing with the keys ... well... thats what 15 years will do for the memory ....

ken

Right now our attorney has closing and possession the same day which I know isn't what we want. I'm thinking we close one day, move out the next day and they can move in the following day. I think we've done something like that in the past. Kind of depends I guess if we're moving into another house that someone has to move out of or into storage.

In my area it is customary to take possession after funding. This is often the same day of clsoing, but can also be the day after. Some sellers and buyers enter into temporary residential leases allowing one party to occupy the property before or after closing.

Either way, it should be spelled out in the sales contract. If you want something different than what's agreed to in the contract you will have to amend the contract.

We're still drafting the agreement so we can include whatever we want that's reasonable of course. Hence my inquiry about what's typical.

I'm thinking we close one day, move out the next day and they can move in the following day.

The problem with this is it does not allow the buyer to do a walk through before closing. A smart buyer will require one so that they can see that everything is there that is suppose to be there and it is clean and not full of junk.

Why don't you move out before the closing date? As a buyer, I would ask to close on an empty house, do the walk through just before closing, and take possession at closing. In other words, keys are handed over at the closing (unless there's an agreement for renting back), and a walk through is just before closing.

Typically, when one is handed the keys is when possession occurs. In my state, that happens at closing. But the actual timing can be modified according to the wishes of both parties as long as it is spelled out clearly in the sales agreement. And that can include the walk-through mentioned above. 3 days, a week, whatever is most convenient to both parties.

In our area, it's typical for closing and possession date to be the same date; settlement/closing/funding is complete and keys given. What's typical for your area? Your atty should be able to advise.

With regard to pre-owned homes, closing usually preceeds possession by 2-3 days in my area. It's so that sellers don't have all their stuff on a truck just to find out that the buyer can't close. Once the buyer closes, the sellers get busy clearing out the house (and, presumably, closing on their new residence). If the listed property is vacant, closing and possession are simultaneous.

In my state, possession and closing are the same day. Sellers must move out ahead of the date of closing, unless previous (contract) arrangements have been made and there is rent-back or similar.

It depends on your area. In my area, you must be out if the house before the closing so the buyer can do a final walk thru on an empty house BEFORE THEY CLOSE.

It depends on your area. In my area, you must be out if the house before the closing so the buyer can do a final walk thru on an empty house BEFORE THEY CLOSE.

'With regard to pre-owned homes, closing usually preceeds possession by 2-3 days in my area. It's so that sellers don't have all their stuff on a truck just to find out that the buyer can't close. Once the buyer closes, the sellers get busy clearing out the house (and, presumably, closing on their new residence).'

yep.

Here. the buyer is out for the final walkthrough, which is usually the day before closing.
Closing = possession.

Here it is typical that the seller is out prior to closing. The final walk through is immediately prior to closing, and in my transactions there had to be proof, essentially, by the day before closing that the buyer was capable of closing at the actual closing. I personally would never close a house where the prior owners still occupied it.

We just closed 11/14 on the sale of our home. Our buyers did the walk thru the night before with their realtor and that's the norm in our area. We were in the house when they came, cleaning the last bits, still had a mattress and all our last minute stuff because we were spending our last night there and leaving just prior to closing in the morning. Possession comes at closing with transfer of funds, until then it was still our house.

With regard to pre-owned homes, closing usually preceeds possession by 2-3 days in my area. It's so that sellers don't have all their stuff on a truck just to find out that the buyer can't close. Once the buyer closes, the sellers get busy clearing out the house (and, presumably, closing on their new residence).

How is it handled if the seller took items that are suppose to stay and the buyer doesn't find out until after the funds are already distributed to the seller? Or if the seller leaves the house a mess with all kinds of things that should have been disposed?

Possession at closing is typical here, unless there is another agreement in advance.

When I did the walk-through on my current home the morning of closing day, their movers were there and nearly all the furniture and most of the boxes were gone.

Possession at closing is typical here, unless there is another agreement in advance.

When I did the walk-through on my current home the morning of closing day, their movers were there and nearly all the furniture and most of the boxes were gone.

In Texas, we attach a "Seller's Temporary Lease" to the contract;
it spells out the new, post-closing relationship between the parties.

Seller is now tenant, & buyer is now landlord.

There's a fill-in-the-blank paragraph for a damage deposit, but it hasn't been used much in the past.

Today, if I were the buyer's agent, I'd request a damage deposit.

Without a damage deposit, if the tenant damages the property, the landlord would document the damage & file suit in small claims court.

Here it is EXTREMELY difficult to get people out of a property if they are occupying it. It takes Months at a minimum to evict someone if they refuse to leave. Even if there is a rent back situation it is typical with tenancy laws here that the tenant must be behind several units in the rent (months or whatever the unit is) before eviction proceedings can even be initiated. I bought two properties that were currently rented and I asked the tenants what their feelings were before I completed my offer. Since in each case they were willing to vacate immediately upon the sale, which was prior to the end of their lease, I was fairly comfortable buying those properties. If I were interested in a property with a renter who was unhappy about leaving, I would probably pass because I would want to avoid what could end up being lengthy legal battles to get them out.

What happens if you own the property and the sellers (or one of the sellers in a divorce or whatever) decide/s they do not want to vacate and it takes months to get them out?

As a seller, I've never been out before closing since I never know it will close.
In one area I bought and sold, it was common to see COE+ three days. Another area it was same day, all in the same Los Angeles County, but different Realtor areas.

"How is it handled if the seller took items that are suppose to stay and the buyer doesn't find out until after the funds are already distributed to the seller? Or if the seller leaves the house a mess with all kinds of things that should have been disposed?"

Usually a % of the purchase price is held in escrow until the buyer takes possession, inspects the property, and releases the funds.

When we bought our first house, the seller wanted to go to closing so he could get the funds to build a new home.
However....
He also demanded that we allow him to remain in "our" house until he finished construction on his new home. He figured it would be 6 to 8 months.

Now I was a 22 year old kid buying his first house, and even I knew that once we closed, he had to be gone and I told him so.
He moved in with his in laws, and his new house never got built.

We've bought nine and sold eight homes in states across the country, and in every sale the house was vacated before closing.

Thanks for all the opinions. I do not want to move until I know the closing went through. I'll confer with the attorney re: possession date one or two days after closing. We have known the people buying our house for many years so hopefully that will help with this particular issue.

As a buyer, I want possession at closing.

As a seller, I want to not pack up until I know the deal has closed.

In practice, it's geographically dependendent. The first 2 states where I bought, possession was at closing. The third, the sellers wanted 60 days. I was pretty horrified, but our agent insisted that was standard in the area (found out later that was only partially true). We gave them 30 days and they were out in about 3 weeks. When we were selling the same house 6 years later, we had a week. We closed on Monday, with the walk-through an hour before the closing, then we packed all week and moved out on Saturday.

Not having possession at closing (in my area technically the same day as soon as legally recorded, after which the keys are transferred) - could be a real problem: the buyer mortgaging a property must have insurance in place and more than likely has put utilities in their name for that day...the new buyer is responsible for the home the moment of recording. Having the seller hanging about who may be careless or worse, angry, vindictive...yikes! No way would I want them in MY new home for even a minute, let alone as many posters pointed out, only in an empty home can you see everything during the walk through. At my closing water damage was discovered that the sellers previously hid under a couch in the basement...wouldn't have caught that if they still had their junk everywhere.

Other things come to mind.
What if the seller has been there for years and has a, say, $350 mortgage payment. The house had appreciated over the years and the new owner has a $1,000 mortgage payment. If the seller wants to stay for 60 days, he's paying the new $1,000 per month payment.

One interesting observation: while as buyers we all have a fear of horror stories of sellers doing things to the house after closing if they're living in our house, but I don't recall ever hearing of any actual anecdotes of bad experiences.

weedyacres, I think actual damage is less common, but happens. The removal of hardscape and landscape items have been reported (wasn't it in GW about the paved walkway being removed?), and other cases where the new owners found multiple holes in the ground where trees and shrubs had been dug up. Some have reported missing or switched appliances, light fixtures and other items that should have remained per the contract. Other annoyances abound, such as leaving items behind for the owner to clear out (hazardous waste products, large/heavy items requiring special disposal pick-up, etc.) discovering they painted around the furniture rather than behind it (another GWer's post), and damage hidden by furniture or rugs. In one local case, the previous owner's son refused to leave and it took a drawn out, and expensive, legal battle to remove him.

It is bad enough having to deal with some of these issues when you become aware of them at a vacant house walkthrough. In our case, multiple cans of hazardous waste and multiple bulky items were left for us to take care of, but we were under time constraints and had to close rather than force the owners to remove the junk. I hate to imagine what they would have thought to get away with leaving if it had been had been after closing!

'As a buyer, I want possession at closing.
As a seller, I want to not pack up until I know the deal has closed.'

There ya go.

These days, I'd probably take photos or a video on the walk-through;
if something in the photos/video weren't there when I took possession, I'd call the buyers' agent, give them a little time to bring back the items they took by mistake, & then call the police.

We have changed the language to possession two days after closing which I don't think is unusual here unless things have changed drastically since we last bought a house.. We know the buyer - we're not going to screw them over or wreck the place. It's a nice home that we have painstakingly cared for over the last 17 years. We're not going to trash it between closing and possession.

The sellers of my sisters house did not want to pay her monthly carrying costs but theirs, which were lower. This needed to be negotiated.

I do know one couple who bought a house that was sold as part of a divorce settlement and after walk-through the wife (apparently, since the husband was at the closing table) went through the house and removed all the interior door hardware. I am not sure what her point was.

In my area, most contracts of sale are written that the seller has up to 5 days after date of closing in which to deliver the house "vacant and in broom clean condition". After that, typical per-diem to the buyer is $200/day.

Some years ago, the default was 3 days but lately 5 days has become the norm.

Most people try to vacate by day of closing because anytime there is a possession after closing, you end up having to have 2 walk-throughs: One on the day of closing, and another when the house is vacated. Plus, money is typically held in escrow against any problems discovered during the final walkthrough.

I've lived in DC, HI and KY and possession at closing (or, in HI, at close of escrow) was the norm in all of those places.

Regardless of custom, as a buyer, I would never close unless the sellers were out and and every bit of their stuff was out at the walkthrough. Refusing to close is your last bit of leverage. We had to use it on our last house purchase - walkthrough was a couple of hours before closing and the sellers had left a bunch of junk. We refused to close until it was all removed. The realtors took care of it and we closed later in the day.