RyseRyse, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I recall you are in IL?

Some locations in IL require a staked survey when property is sold. We sold two houses, in subdivisions in IL. Some one required we pay for a staked survey both times.

You may want to call a title company about this, if you are in IL.

We just recently sold 39 acres of recreational land (without home) and we did not provide a survey. Our real estate attorney didn't indicate that was a problem and the buyer didn't request one. We just X ed it out in the contract.

The title went through without a survey.

Ryse,Ryse,
There is nothing more frustrating to buyers than to be invited to look at someone's large property, but then the sellers decided best that the boundaries not be marked! You say that if your lot was of the stamp sized lots of a typical neighborhood, then you would go ahead and get a survey done. If a seller paid survey is important to a buyer who is purchasing a stamp sized lot, then just imagine how a buyer feels about walking 19 acres, and having to wonder if the creek is on the property, or not knowing the setbacks, or not knowing the lengths of the boundaries...
IMO, I have a hard time imagining good reasons for a seller not to provide a survey of the property that they are trying to sell.

This apparently is a regional thing. In my area, this is a buyers cost and not required. Check with a local real estate agent or attorney what is customary in your area.

Actually, Linda, it is pretty standard practice here too, for the seller not to provide a freshly surveyed property. I just think it makes sense for them to.

how does the title company insure title for an unknown piece of property ...

this is the part the surprises me ...

ken

Perhaps I am just a bit cynical, but if I were purchasing 19 acres that was fenced, I would want the survey to determine that the fence is actually in the proper location. I think it would be easier to have the boundaries wrong on a larger piece of property than on a smaller one as there is more wiggle room. When houses are right on top of each other, it is easier to spot a mistake in lines (although not foolproof, of course).

Ken, when we bought all 58 acres of land 20 years ago, the title company did not request a survey and we didn't because the property was split up into two tax bills and the plats are clearly shown in the plat book. Also the property has fencing that has been there for over 50 years.

When we were much younger, we bought a cabin on 1 3/4 acres. We walked the property with the seller. After buying the property, we had a survey done - turned out it was only 3/4 acre.

This land we had surveyed before we bought the property. It was surveyed and split when it was developed a few years before we bought it, but we still wanted to make sure we knew where all the markers were and that they were in the correct locations. If you compare the actual boundary lines to the county GIS site, they will not match.

I'm all for a survey.

I cannot understand why rural property would cost 3k to survey. Is this more complicated for some reason? However, I would not purchase property without a survey, whether provided by the seller or at my cost, which would probably impact my offer if it is indeed as costly as you say.

It is more expensive because of the 'miles' the surveyor has to walk.

Anyway, we have a 2014 Whiteside County Land Atlas & Plat Book. It show the names and property boundaries of all land owners in that county. Google maps doesn't do a survey on each property it lists.

Plat books are frequently wrong on older land splits. Without a survey, you have no way of knowing if you are actually purchasing the described property or not. I would want to know what the seller was hiding if they didn't have a recent survey.

Lot & block surveys in platted subdivisions are easy for a surveyer to research & measure.

Acreage is often "metes & bounds", which means much more research, more painstaking measuring & comparing to other metes & bounds properties &, since fences & landmarks are oftenmoved or wrong, it often means several trips to measure the property.

' the property has fencing that has been there for over 50 years.'

which means only that somebody put up a fence 50 years ago.

I've had a few sales in which a new survey reveals surprises.

Once a seller had to buy a strip of land from his neighbor because his driveway was actually on the neighbor's land.

On this same sale, there was a fence on the side of the property, which we all took to be the boundary.

until the buyer's fiance noticed scars on the trunks of a line of trees that was about 6' inside the fence line.
turns out the scars were from the original, mostly correct fence that had been removed.

about the title companies:
There's a standard exception for boundaries in every title policy.
You can pay a fee to have it removed, but the title company will remove it only if there's a fresh survey; in other words, if a surveyor can be held accountable for errors.

If I were buying anything in this world, I'd want to be sure that what was delivered to me was what I intended to buy.

You only have to read of issues on this board an every other place about land not being what someone "thought" it was. There should be zero doubt about the boundaries of something that you are selling, or you may be putting doubt into any potential buyers minds.

Here is a link that might be useful: What not getting a survey can result in

OK - talked to my atty. Since the land was fenced well over 50 years ago and we bought the land (from the original owners) saying it was 58 acres MOL, we got what was fenced in more or less. That is the way it used to be done. Since no one has ever questioned the boundaries, we own the land through Adverse Possession and the buyers will be grandfathered in.

Thanks for your comments. If our buyer wants a survey they can either pay for it or we will split the cost. (We sold one parcel which was 39 acres MOL and the house is on the other parcel with 18.9 acres MOL.)

If your county has a GIS with coordinates a GPS with WAAS will get you to within 10 ft, which ought to be "close enough" on a 19 acre plot for your buyer to see if they have an issue if they don't trust the common sense approach of using the existing fencing.

You only own land through adverse possession if you go to court to acquire it. By public record would still belong to whomever originally owned the land. Attempting to sell something with an encumbrance like that would be a real turnoff to most buyers, no matter what the acreage.

RyseRyse wrote:
"OK - talked to my atty. Since the land was fenced well over 50 years ago and we bought the land (from the original owners) saying it was 58 acres MOL, we got what was fenced in more or less. That is the way it used to be done. Since no one has ever questioned the boundaries, we own the land through Adverse Possession and the buyers will be grandfathered in."
We went from the OP not providing the costs to a survey to now trying to sell land that was acquired through Adverse Possession because the attorney says the old fence line will now be the new buyer's property line.
I don't think it works this way. I realize the incentive for not paying for one upfront, but IMO, most buyers will expect one.

In Texas, last time I was involved with a survey mess, adverse possession did indeed have to be established by the court, & if the seller doesn't do it, the buyer is not grandfathered.

If your county has a GIS with coordinates a GPS with WAAS will get you to within 10 ft, which ought to be "close enough" on a 19 acre plot for your buyer to see if they have an issue if they don't trust the common sense approach of using the existing fencing.

Not necessarily. Ours is about 50ft off from what the county GIS shows. We had ours surveyed and we know where the property lines are. If we had used the GIS information, our house would have been too close to the required set-back.

Never would I buy, or advise a client to buy, any property without a valid survey & a title policy (with exceptions examined & maybe deleted).

Those are the only ways any buyer can be sure that (s)he is buying what the seller thinks (s)he is selling or claims to be selling.