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Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Posted by deanie1 (My Page) on
Sun, Oct 25, 09 at 17:24

We did our "final" walk-thru today and discovered that the sellers have taken with them a large, probably expensive work/tool bench that we thought was staying with the house. The MLS listing paper said the house came with a "workshop." When my agent drew up the contract he did not specify that the workbench stay and I didn't think anything of it as I assumed it would. Now the sellers are saying too bad, take the house or leave it. My agent isn't helping much--he just wants to close. I think we should ask the sellers for a dollar amount credit or something. We are supposed to close tomorrow--help!


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

My mom passed away almost two years ago but she was a real estate agent and broker for about 30 years. One thing she told me was that you have to spell everything out and get it in writing.

A house may have a workshop but, unless you have in the contract that the workbench is to be included, then you don't have a lot to stand on. It is kind of like saying a house comes with a dining room but that doesn't mean you get the furniture unless that is agreed upon and written in the contract to purchase.

I think the rule of thumb is that if it is built-in or attached then it most likely will be included but, you have built-ins in the kitchen and it still has to be specified. Never assume anything when making a purchase contract for a house. Spell everything out.

Do you want the house? Is not getting the workbench going to stop the closing? Are you just feeling ticked off because you wanted the workbench but otherwise are happy with the house. I doubt that the seller will give you a credit. If you are otherwise happy with the house then go to closing and consider this an inexpensive lesson for the future. You can get another workbench or maybe you can make one.

Robyn


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

If this is the ONLY thing missing, and if you really want the house, (cannot live without it), I would go ahead and accept the deal, but indicate in writing that you understood the workbench would be included. How long did the people live in the house? What relationship did they have with the neighbors? Will they come back to visit them (not you). Could this cause problems if the neighbors see the bench missing and you comment they took it. (stole it) etc. If you are really upset, and this might cause some of the neighbors to not be so friendly, this is another issue.
Write down, pros/cons and go from their.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

If the workbench was not built in, or in some other way permanently affixed to the structure, it wasn't included, unless the listing specifically included it.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"A house may have a workshop but, unless you have in the contract that the workbench is to be included, then you don't have a lot to stand on. It is kind of like saying a house comes with a dining room but that doesn't mean you get the furniture unless that is agreed upon and written in the contract to purchase. "

Great example, Robyn... and I agree!


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Thanks for responding guys. The listing under the heading "miscellaneous" said "workshop, home warranty" and under "basement rooms" it said "workshop." Not only is there no bench, but we've also noticed there are no electical outlets to plug any power tools into. My buyer's agent's partner prepared this listing paper--shouldn't he have been more careful? Is this not false advertising or something?--I feel rather ripped off.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

This may be one of those regional things, but where we are (California), furniture is definitely never included unless specified in the MLS listing or offer. Basically, unless it's built-in, it doesn't come with the house. Even appliances are not presumed to be included unless they're specified in the listing (although most people choose to include them).

Also, "workshop" typically just means a room one can work in, generally attached to the basement or garage---our home was listed with one, for instance, and in our case it's an unfinished section of the basement where tools and such are stored. No requirement for any specific furniture, electrical wiring, etc., so I don't think it would be considered false advertising.

I'd be surprised if the sellers would give any sort of credit for the bench, but you might just tell them you really liked it, and ask if they'd consider selling it to you (or if not, ask where they got it from, and just buy one yourself).


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"we've also noticed there are no electical outlets to plug any power tools..." "I feel rather ripped off."

The legal term for the above is called: 'Due Diligence' on the part of the buyer. YOU.

You should not walk thru a potential house to buy, with rose colored glasses on... That being said; you can always purchase a workshop bench yourself. The sellers might not acutally even want the bench. And have taken it - ONLY because 'they have to.' After all, you can charge them for clean up and garbage disposal for stuff they leave behind, that they were supposed to take. And they are required to take that bench. If they left it - you could charge them the dump fees...

So the seller MIGHT give you the bench if you ask. They certainly do not have to, and they do NOT owe you any credit or money!

And, you are still free to walk away from this deal. If you do, you will forfeit your ernest money, owe bank loan fees, etc. - BUT - no one is forcing you to sign. And, until the deal is CLOSED - you can always walk away.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

How the heck did you miss the fact there are NO outlets in the alleged workshop? Did you have a house inspection? if so, ask why this was not picked up..Perhaps you could recoup your home inspection costs ,then hire an electrican to add some outlets...


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

I wouldn't assume a workbench would stay anymore then I would assume a piece of furniture would stay.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Thanks for responding guys. The listing under the heading "miscellaneous" said "workshop, home warranty" and under "basement rooms" it said "workshop." Not only is there no bench, but we've also noticed there are no electical outlets to plug any power tools into. My buyer's agent's partner prepared this listing paper--shouldn't he have been more careful? Is this not false advertising or something?--I feel rather ripped off.

A workshop is a room or part of a room suitable or intended for doing mechanical tasks. A workbench is a piece of furniture. The listing promised a workshop. It did not promise a workbench.

Like any other kind of room in a house, some are built better than others. Your task as a potential buyer is to look at the property and detemine if it is suitable for your needs.

That would include checking to see if the workshop had enough electrical outlets for whatever it is you want to do in the workshop. If you didn't think to check, that's on you, not the seller.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

You know, I've bought and I've sold, and I've usually found that nothing is absolutely exactly as I had expected on either side of the transaction. As long as it wasn't completely gross, I was just thankful that the transaction went through, the closing occured and I got/gave a set of keys and it was over. I've been on that side of the coin where I had something large and clumsy and didn't want to take it, and I went the extra mile to stipulate that it went with the house and would not be removed. Examples, a piano, a chest freezer, an add-on woodburner. The buyers didn't always particularly want them, but it was in the contract and they wanted the houses enough to accept them. LOL. But, that being said, if there was any question whatsoever, about what stayed and went, it was settled well in advance to closing.

One house I bought about four years ago, the owners hadn't removed any of their junk. Some of it looked good, some of it looked like it should have been on the curb. We actually hauled some of it out to the owners new digs to get it the heck out of there, so we could start working on the house. But, months later, her grown kids would show up and ask if we 'found' a computer cable, or a suitcase. OMG. Now that's taking it too far. I came back with either, "I threw it away, or it's mine now".whatever was the case.

BTW, the workbench in that house DID NOT STAY. And it was in an obvious workshop area. LOL. It was not attached, and I took it. Had another house I sold where the new owners wanted me to bring back a decorative, fake brass lantern because they thought it should go with the house. It was hung like you'd hang a picture. When I told them no, it wasn't even a functional lamp, just artwork she ventured to say it was why they bought the house. rofl. I don't think so.

I'm sorry you are getting less than a sympathetic agreement here. Is this your first time buying a home? I'm not being facetious, you just learn from experiences like this what to ask if it's that important.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Yeah, good question qdwag. We saw the house twice before writing the contract and both times the workbench (and the entire basement) was stacked with moving boxes and tons of other stuff. We did have a professional home inspection last week and at that time the junk was still there. We aren't happy with the inspector either.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

look over your home inspection report and see what it says about the "workshop"..I purchased a home and the hot water wasn;t working in the guest suite(probably never used) and the report stated ALL water was at proper temperature and working..OOPS!!! I complained and was reimbused my fee for Home inspection,as there is a caveat in most HI contracts you can't sue for more then the cost of HI


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

The room has no electrical outlets at all? That is just odd, code requires outlets within 4' of every space on a wall. Did you check to make sure they received a permit for this space?


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Basement "stuff" is often done without permits. It's also not unusual for it to be done poorly or incompletely.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

You guys have been such a help! Yes, I am a first-time home buyer-- and it shows! To clarify, the alleged workshop (LOL!) was supposed to be in the basement. None of the basement is finished--just one big 1900 sq. ft. space with the workbench pushed up against one wall. There are two overhead light fixtures, but now we know there are no wall outlets in the basement. We stupidly thought the workbench WAS the workshop and that the outlets were behind the junk somewhere.

As for the inspection report. The inspector gave us a long report noting all the deficiencies with the house, but there is no listing that tells us what was OK with the house or what was specifically checked. We arrived at the house at the appointed time and he said he had already done the inspection and here is what is wrong with the house. The fact that there were no outlets in the basement was not noted.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

A workbench in the corner of an open basement does not constitute a workshop, in my opinion. I now see why you thought the workbench would be staying. It sounds like it was the only thing there actually related to a workshop. In that situation and as a first time buyer, your assumptions were not unreasonable. Your buyer's agent should have caught this.

You may be able to back out of the contract based on misrepresentation, if you raise enough stink about it. You would have to talk to a lawyer to find out for sure.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

I don't think you have a case for misrepresentation. The sellers were using the space as a workshop and advertised it as such. They didn't misrepresent that fact. If the sellers would have advertised the space as a home office and you viewed the home with a desk and computer shoved into the corner, would you have expected the desk and computer to stay? As for the outlets, that was on you or your inspector to check. I've purchased a home before only to discover after the fact that there was only one outlet in the living room. After that I made sure I checked every home I purchased for outlets.

We once purchased a home with a workshop in a corner of the basement. Had a beautiful custom made work bench that my husband fell in love with. Our first stipulation in the contract was that the work bench stayed. And when we sold that home, the buyers also stipulated in the contract that the workbench stayed. If in doubt, always spell it out in the contract.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Easy one here... The workbench is not a fixture unless it was fastened to the structure. You should have told the agent that you wanted it, and the agent should have pointed out that it does not convey.
As far as the inspector goes... I bet somewhere in the paperwork, it says that he is not responsible for inspecting areas that are not accessable. If the basement was stacked with boxes as you say, your agent or the inspector should have explained to you that they advise a reinspection after the sellers moved the boxes.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

I don't think you have a case for misrepresentation. The sellers were using the space as a workshop and advertised it as such.

What if you looked at a home that listed a basement toilet that turned out to be a porta potti, which the sellers (thankfully) took with them? Wouldn't you consider that a misrepresentation? Of course you would.

The same thing applies here. According to what the OP has told us, there is no workshop in the home, yet the listing included one. To me, that is misrepresentation.

Whether or not it is actionable is another matter entirely.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"The room has no electrical outlets at all? That is just odd, code requires outlets within 4' of every space on a wall."

Not the NEC (National Electric Code).
No space on a finished wall can be more than 6 feet from a receptacle.
It does NOT apply to halls either.
A hall can have only a single receptacle and be code compliant.
Kitchen counter wall spaces are required to be no more than 24 inches from a receptacle.

"Did you check to make sure they received a permit for this space?"

Sounds like a typical unfinished basement.
What would they need a permit for?

There is no wiring.

I do not think the OP has a leg to stand on.
They advertised a work room, and they are often unfinished basement space.
Work benches and such are personal property and would only convey if called out in the contract.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

A couple of things to learn from this deal. Always get every thing spelled out in writing. Your agent should have helped you more here IMHO IF she knew you wanted the bench. Never assume anything when buying a house! Ask questions and write up as ironclad a contract as you can if this is the place you want.
Never sign off on a house deal unless you can inspect every possible square inch you are buying yourself. Stacked boxes left in a particular spot for an extended period of time should have been a red flag that something was being hid. You should have insisted the boxes be moved so you could see the space.
AND most importantly home inspections do not take the place of a educated buyer nor are they all the same from coast to coast.
You messed up. You assumed something that wasn't with the workbench, you should never have signed off on the deal till the boxes were moved and you were allowed to see the space and you relied on someone else to catch problems.
Buying a house is a learning process. Next time you will know better.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

When I posted I didn't realize the space was unfinished. I assumed it was a finished room in the basement.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

You might also check the light fixtures, especially if it's an older home---in our area (homes circa 1920s-1940s) it is very common for basement electrical outlets to be part of the overhead fixtures. A typical fixture will be a white ceramic base with a couple of outlets, a light bulb screwed in, and a hanging string to turn it on and off. It's simple, but not unsafe provided the wiring is sound (though you do need to be cognizant of dangling cords, of course!)

As others have said, most cities don't count unfinished basement space as living space, and as such don't have specific codes or permits required for it. There also isn't a formal definition of a workshop (unlike a bathroom or kitchen, which is legally defined, as is a bedroom in many areas) so it would probably be difficult to argue that any particular space was or wasn't a workshop. I think you'll just have to chalk this one up as a lesson learned for the future, unfortunately.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

The lack of the code required 12 foot outlets would be a likely clue the space is unfinished.

Most workrooms are anyway.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

If the space was an unfinished basement, there would be no reason to expect electrical outlets to have been installed. Hence, the home inspector is not going to report on the obvious, so you have zero recourse there.

Chalk this up to a learning experience.

That said, the problem is easily solved...hire an electrician to install a couple of outlets...and purchase a workbench...move on and enjoy your new home.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Having an expected large item gone when you close is disturbing, but believe me sometimes having a lot of little ones is just as unsettling.

After we closed on one house in mid-winter, my husband and I had packed up enough bedding to 'camp out' at the new house and be there the next day early for the movers. We could not get any lights on and took a lamp to the basement to check the fuse box. After coming back upstairs and flashing the lights up at the ceilings, we found that when the other family moved out, they took every light bulb in the house with them out of the sockets. It was an old Victorian with twelve foot ceilings, LOL, my gosh that was more trouble than it was worth, wasn't it for a dozen light bulbs?

The TP was emptied from the bathroom rollers and the rollers and towel bars were removed, too. They literally removed everything not screwed down and bunch of stuff what was. No draperies and I knew there wouldn't be in that house with 31 very tall windows, but also all the hardware on which to hang a curtain. It was a rather uncomfortable night, because you couldn't really see to even go to the bathroom, and if you could you'd be afraid to use it. rofl.

When I sold my last house two years ago, I left packets of spare bulbs to all the specialty lights. Furnace filters for that model furnace. I bleached out all the appliances and left fresh rolls of paper towels and TP and even left the phones on the walls and spare fuses and the number of all the maintenance companies who installed or worked on the heating system. Extra tiles to the kitchen floor and touch up paint for the freshly painted walls. And I hung a wreath on the door to welcome them. It just takes all kinds.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

I had an unfinished basement(until recently) and it had several outlets..I don't think unfinished necessarily means NO outlets


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"I don't think unfinished necessarily means NO outlets"

Outlets or receptacles?

A light is required (just one often) and a pull chain fixture is an outlet and acceptable under the codes.

Receptacles are NOT required.
Count yourself lucky if they are there on new work.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

The house I bought has a large workbench in the basement that I don't want - I'll even help you load it.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

FWIW, my "unfinished basement" had BOTH outlets(light fixture with bulbs,6 of them) AND 6 receptacles...Perhaps homes built within the last 10 years are required to have several of each? or maybe it is just local practice


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

calliope, you are my favorite home seller.

(Maybe you could teach a class.)


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"Perhaps homes built within the last 10 years are required to have several of each? or maybe it is just local practice"

The NEC does not require anything much in unfinished space even now (a single outlet, and a pull chain light meets that requirement).

Local jurisdictions are free to amend the code any way they wish.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"Local jurisdictions are free to amend the code any way they wish. "

That must be it, as our local requirements not only state the # of light fixtures and receptacles,but also insists on ingress/egress exits on new construction homes,whether the basements are finished or not...(just checked the code)

Also on finishing basements,an ingress/egress exit must be retrofitted as part of permit process(other nearby municipalities only require such if there is a bedroom in basement)..Is there any wonder people finish the basement without permits?


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

qdwag: "Is there any wonder people finish the basement without permits?"

Yes there is indeed a wonder......as it makes it that much harder to sell in a municipality where permits are required, and is flat out irresponsible.

In this market especially, people are no longer buying homes with the confidence that it will escalate in price so much that they can plan on selling for a profit in a few years or tapping the ever increasing equity to fix problems form their own pocket.

People now want homes in move in condition, with improvements that have been done legally in accordance with town regulations.

Also, insurers are more and more refusing to pay claims in the event of fire or injury that involves an area where work was performed illegally.

Smart buyers want to avoid inhereting the safety, liability and resale issues that are all too often inherent in DYI, no permit projects. Who in their right mind would want to be left holding the bag for someone elses negligence?

Although many municipalities still only require proper ingress/egress for a bedroom in the basement, I applaud your town for going the extra step.

Try to egress a finished basement, when the only means of egress is the one door to the fire raging upstairs, and let us know how that works out for you.

And before you say that the smoke detectors will provide enough time for escape, just for starters, realize that means the fire must not directly involve the door into the first floor, the person must be awake (and people DO take naps in their "family/entertainment room" basements), and kids do play LOUD music and LOUD games, and often use earbuds, all which can drown out the noise of the detector.

So that said, I do wonder why anyone would be so foolhardy as to create an unnecessary and serious safety hazard given what is at stake.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Logic, prior to the local governments 'coding" us to death, people lived for generations without 2 sources of escape from their basements,so please save the drama..yes, if a 2nd egress could be installed,it should..And not 1 single municipality i've lived in require an inspection by the town officials prior to closing on a sale..

AND not all people who finish a basement do a half-a$$ed job..Many do everything by code,just avoid the local officials becuase of the then imminient tax increase..If the basement has drywall or not,the sf is the same...


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

we bought house last year and there was built-in fridge with wood cabinetry front to match other cabinetry--we specified in contract that fridge stay--our realtor said it couldn't hurt--
they were also wanting to leave a large screen tv in the family room that looked like it was a wall-mounted flat screen but closer observation showed it was an older floor model that they had cabinetry built around--
we said we don't want that--take it with you...
so it is best not to assume anything
and our inspector missed the fact that one shower valve in MB was not getting any hot water...discovered that one chilly December night--
because we had not moved in right way after closing in order to have some painting and other work done, our realtor said that the home warrenty we got from the sellers would probably not cover having the work done to fix the stuck valve...
and the inspector swore that all heads were working--but I had to show him how to turn on one of the valves so I don't know how accurate his info was...


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

qdwag: "...people lived for generations without 2 sources of escape from their basements..."

And the caveman lived for generations as well. And then there was evolution. What a concept.

qdwag: "...And not 1 single municipality i've lived in require an inspection by the town officials prior to closing on a sale.."

So? I never said otherwise. However, once a buyer calls the construction code office, and asks if there were permits issued and final approvals for the finished basement at 123 Main Street, something tells me that the township is not going to ignore the heads up that there has been an illegal renovation. But, hey...anything is possible.

qdwag: "...AND not all people who finish a basement do a half-a$$ed job..Many do everything by code.."

Never said that was the case. The point is, final approvals cover your ass in terms of liability and resale. Only a fool of a buyer would take a sellers word for it that he "did everything to code", when the seller has no way to back up or document the claim.

That said, our township will not allow transfer of title if there are open permits. Of course if the seller never applied for permits, nothing would be open awaiting final approval.

However, the town code guy does come in to every house that is sold prior to closing and inspects for working smoke and carbon monoxide detectors.

Do you really think he wouldn't notice a finished basement?
Guess again.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

I am sure this is not totally true with all areas of the Country; and with even a few inspectors who work for the City of Seattle - but here in Seattle, it seems the only thing the Dept. of Land Use, Construction, and the Permit office - are interested in - is raising your taxes, and charging you fees.

We're finishing up a remod on the house my lovely wife grew up in.

About 6 years ago - we had a 96% efficient furnace installed. Permitted. After the install - we called a free inspection company - totally private firm - who sent out a man and inspected the furnace install. Stated it was a good job, but found a couple of wrong items, (a leaking fitting for example) - and fixed them free of charge. He spent about 40 minutes looking over the furnace install. His company is paid by a broad consortium of furnace installers who are fed up with shoody and bad work being done by some installers...

However - when we had the City inspector come on out - to inspect the furnace - he wasn't even in the basement for 20 seconds. Surprised he even went downstairs. He walked in, said: 'Yep, that's a furnace. Where's the permit to sign?" He signed the permit, and then made a remark (because it was obvious we were doing some remod work) - Looks like I'll be getting some calls to come back here... Then he left. That was the city 'inspection.'

This house had a foundation problem. We had it fixed. Several Engineers involved, etc. The structural engineer stated it needed 14 pin pillings. But the city office said: 17

The structural engineer told us: "It needs 14; but city says 17. So 17 it is."

What did this do? Increase the cost of the repair, and the fees I paid to the City.

Now, some time back - my wife become a RE Agent. A house down the street went up for sale, and the seller was making some claims about upgraded electrical service. (Wasn't.) But ALL the work (as it turns out) which had been done - had been permitted.

But, out of curiousity - we inquired of the City to ask if it had been permitted. The city said: NOPE. No permits. We talked with his RE A; and the guy became rightfully pissed - because he HAD purchased the permits.

(And the city did not change the status of his permitted work, and did not come out and take a look at his house...)

So, that got us to thinking some more - and we asked the city about OUR Foundation Repair. And they said: NOPE. No permits. You never had that done...

And after yelling at them for about a month, and contacting the Geo Technical Enginerer - who faxed us the documents he had submitted to the city - the City finally stated: You should have CALLED us (we had - the completed documents had been submitted to them...) and told us it was completed. At this point, the only thing we are willing to do - is if you will pay us another fee of $100; we will then reopen your permit; and send a guy out - who will then be able to look at nothing (since it is all closed up) - but we will then file your permit under closed; and put it into the records - that it was actually permitted and finished.

So - NO - I didn't pay them ANOTHER fee! I had already paid them several THOUSAND dollars for the foundation permit, and all of the stuff which goes with that, and they had received the proper docments when the job was completed. They just didn't bother to do their job. And NOW they want MORE money!!?? I HAVE the signed off engineering documents! I am steamed at the city - but they have all the tax money, and all the power. And they don't care.

So - I am FED UP - with the City and their regulations, and the permit process... In Seattle, it is not about safety, it is about City Revenue. And power tripping with inspectors. And you can find some court cases around the country, and some other stuff if you look in the news - where various inspectors have just been power tripping on home owners or contractors they decided they don't like.

You don't want to buy a home - if some of the work hasn't been properly permitted. Fine. I DON'T CARE. I don't have to sell to you. I have permits, and I have paid thousands in fees - to only have the permit office not bother to even do their damm job. And the neighbor two houses down - experienced exactly the same thing.

So - I don't call them anymore. And my words towards the permit office and process are unprintable.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

dave777 2009, it sounds as if Seattle has some work to do on cleaning up the act of their construction code officers...as does probably most every city/town etc.

In NJ, specifically south Jersey, there was a huge issue with that a few years back; most of the code officials were on the take from developers.

The bottom line is that every profession has the greedy, the corrupt and the just plain lazy.

In addition code is often subject to interpretation, and structural repair can oftentimes be done using more than one method. It is not always black and white.

The point is, you don't just need permits. You need the final approvals. All a permit means is that a plan was filed to do the work. Generally, at each stage of the process (which the construction code office can provide as each project is different) the homeowner must call to have the stage inspection performed. When all inspections have been performed and an approval has been issued (e.g., framing, electrical, plumbing, etc.), the final approval is issued.

If you don't call to schedule the inspections, the permit itself is meaningless. Also, if you wait too long, there usually is a cost to reopen the permit.

Last but not least, the permit and the final approvals covers YOU, in the event of property damage, injury or even death, as work that was approved by a licensed municipal professional (even if the offical rubber stamped it) will be defensible in the event of a lawsuit, and will not jeopardize your ability to collect on your homeowners insurance.

Work that was not approved? Not.

That said, you may want to reconsider you position.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

To the OP, what did you end up doing? Did you take the house? I'm assuming you did since the post says final walk through.

To me, the workbench would depend on both you as a buyer and me as a seller. As is said, if it's not bolted in, technically I don't have to leave it.

If you're a pain as a buyer, I might take it with me because I'm not happy you're being a pain and/or I might take it because I feel you might say something if I left it, and think to charge me to remove it.

When we sold; my hubby mentioned to the buyer about extra walkway pavers. There was a lot of money sitting there. The buyer expressed no interest what so ever during anything. The buyers were a nightmare to us; I won't get into it, but we felt that he might say something to us about why were they left there; plus we weren't leaving anything else they didn't ask for; so we asked a neighbor if they wanted them.

At closing, Mr Buyer asks my hubby where the pavers are. He told him he didn't think he wanted them & that was that. The pavers were never written into their contract or ours when we listed.

If you took the house; tell your hubby to build his own and to put his own sheet rock up as well. Have someone wire the basement the way you want it. Also take into consideration doing some "media" wiring. Have him go to Depot to get a 2 ft large "box" where all of the internet, TV & phone wires meet. Much easier in the end.

calliope I'd love to have a buyer that I'd want to do all of that for. I've sold 2 houses and both were nightmares.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

Yes, we did close--see my posting "Update--the closing." We were not pains as buyers. I still feel like if "workshop" was in the listing as being included in the house there should have been some sort of workshop-like thing or space left there for us. I now know that I should have told my realtor to write it into the contract that we want the work table to stay. My DH is buying himself a work table eventually and we will have an electrician wire stuff in. I know now if something's not bolted down they can take it--but I didn't think they could take it if they advertised that it was included. A big, naked unfinished basement with no outlets is hardly a workshop in my mind. But oh well. I am so much wiser now! This forum is a huge help.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

"...I didn't think they could take it if they advertised that it was included. A big, naked unfinished basement with no outlets is hardly a workshop in my mind."

They advertised a work SHOP, not a workBENCH.

Especially if part of the basement is finished, a 'workshop' would be just an unfinished area suitable for use as a shop.

It is not going to come equipped.

You need to be VERY clear in contracts, especially about personal property.

Rather than even show my house with things like an xpensive crystal chandelier with a real plaster medallion, or a Viking stove with hood, these things were removed before the house was even listed.

The buyers got a brand new mid-range gas stove and a new chandelier (plastic medallion mounted).

The unfinished portion of ht abasement was advertised as a 'shop', but the tens of thousands of dollars worth of stationary machinery and cabinets did not convey.
That equipment was just to hard to move more than once, especially things like metal a metal lath and milling machine (1800 ppounds and 2400 pounds resepectively) let alone a 1000 pound table saw.

I did leave the wiring behind, a lot of 240 V twist lock receptacles) with "motor only" in large black letters on the cover plates.

Not a lot of folks need 30+ amp 240 V motor circuits though.


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RE: Help! walk-thru today--large item missing

It may not make you feel any better, OP, but it could have been so much worse.

The family who purchased the house across the street from us spent weeks getting rid of the trash, junk and rubbish left behind by the seller, both inside and outside the house.

Early in the buying process the buyers arrived for a scheduled second look at the house, and they along with the realtor were surprised to find the seller asleep in her bedroom. The seller wasn't at all uncomfortable with that. The fact that she didn't bother cleaning up the place was not entirely unexpected.

While the seller possessed a lot of apathy, she had very little money. Getting her to participate in the cleanup, or pay for it, would have been an exercise in futility. They could have balked and not closed, but there weren't many homes in their price range.


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