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tomatofreak

It's not closing.

tomatofreak
9 years ago

After a delay of 10 days from the original COE, today is the day it was supposed to close. Not one word, not one call, no papers to sign. I'm just so done with this deal. I'd like to move on the the next one.

Questions:

1) Has anyone done a lease/purchase deal and, if so, did it work out well?

2) If you are opposed to L/P's, why? What are the dangers?

3) Would you nix such an idea and just put it back on the market for the appraised value?

Would love some good advice. The OH is so risk averse, he sees boogeymen in every scenario involving anything but a straight-out sale. However, my daughter bought her house on a L/P and assumed all the maintenance till she closed the sale. OH is paranoid about having to "run over and fix every little thing".

Btw, this realtor wants to represent us in our next purchase and sale of our house. I don't think so. At this point, I'm suspicious that buyers may not have been qualified and that's the holdup. Regardless, no call or text from him is really irritating at this point.

Here is a link that might be useful: appraisal & house not closing

Comments (62)

  • Linda
    9 years ago

    The realtor,doesn't represent you in this transaction. He represents the buyer. You can't see how he deserves the 3% because he isn't showing that to you. If you think he's representing the buyer well,then he would probably do the same for you on the sale of your home and the purchase of another one.

  • CA Kate z9
    9 years ago

    One observation: a 2-day extension would have you closing on Saturday. Will that happen where you are? Not here!

    Also, there was just a big Jewish Holy Day. I wonder if that had something to do with the latest delay.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    kirkhall, the buyer landed in his lap; he never had to show this house or any house to them. The woman is the daughter of the man who owned it and grew up there. She has an emotional attachment to it and simply asked him to call us to see if we would sell. And by "information", I meant what-the-hell-is-going-on; I have never asked for paperwork. He has had virtually no work to do.

    This has been incredibly stressful and I JUST WANT IT TO CLOSE!!

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    Wouldn't the sellers agent have had to disclose to the buyers agent that they were having a paperwork issue and needed an extra couple of days?

    The sellers agent should be making contact with you just like they would the buyers agent.

    I hope they close by Friday for you!

  • rrah
    9 years ago

    Kippy--there is no seller's agent.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It is NOT closing today - just as I expected. "Monday, for sure". Uh, huh.

    The holdup, according to buyer's agent (no, we don't have one) is HUD. Will someone please weigh in and tell me why HUD would not have approved this *before* the day it was to fund and close?

  • gottagrowthings
    9 years ago

    in the reference to HUD, there is only 1 way it would be HUD involved. if the buyer were doing a Section 184 loan (Native American) HUD's office is closed for their fiscal year end. is that really the case with this loan?
    that being said, as a lender we are under rigid guidelines to document everything and sometimes things the buyer sends in trigger more questions - like what is the deposit on this bank statement from?
    I agree with signing the extension and closing with this buyer if at all possible instead of starting over...

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    From HUD's website: "Conventional Loan: a private sector loan, one that is not guaranteed or insured by the U.S. government."

    The contract specified buyers to obtain conventional loan. If changes were made, i.e., conventional to FHA, shouldn't we have been informed?

    And, no, gottagrowthings, there is no Native American issue here. She is white and he is black. Very sweet people, but definitely not NA.

    So, what could possibly be HUD's role here and why are we waiting on HUD. Here is the BA's response to my question:

    "Nothing can happen until HUD is approved, so funding can't happen until then, so it will be Monday for sure now, even if the HUD is in it is too late in the day."

  • eaga
    9 years ago

    Tomatofreak, I'm not an expert, but there's a form, HUD-1, which discloses the closing costs to buyers, I think even for conventional loans. If you look at your own closing docs from your RE purchase you should see it. If it hasn't been completed, which I believe is done by the closing agent, it can delay the closing because the seller has a right to inspect it prior to closing. I hope a RE pro steps in here to confirm or clarify what I'm saying here, but from the message you got, it seems like you're waiting for "approval of (the) HUD", not approval by HUD. Many apologies if I'm wrong, I don't want to mislead you. Hope it works out for you.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    "If it hasn't been completed, which I believe is done by the closing agent, it can delay the closing because the seller has a right to inspect it prior to closing."

    Curious. BA told us yesterday, "You are done as far as I know, was told yesterday (that would be Wednesday) that your part is done."

    So, according to him, we have no more papers to review or sign. Even though COE is constantly changing and payout will also be different.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Yes, I see. However, this is just a form that is used by the escrow agent, listed as "settlement agent" on form. It doesn't come from HUD, so I'm still mystified that we're waiting for HUD

    Here is a link that might be useful: HUD-1

  • eaga
    9 years ago

    Well, yeah, and I should have said "seller *and buyer*". It needs to be studied carefully, along with the closing docs. On one of our refi's, some of the calculations were based on the wrong closing date and the whole thing needed to be recalculated. My DH caught it. We waited at the lawyer's office and still closed the same day.

  • eaga
    9 years ago

    "Yes, I see. However, this is just a form that is used by the escrow agent, listed as "settlement agent" on form. It doesn't come from HUD, so I'm still mystified that we're waiting for HUD"

    I don't think you're waiting for HUD, I think you're waiting for the HUD-1 form to be completed.

  • gottagrowthings
    9 years ago

    have you signed seller's closing documents yet?
    and has they buyer signed theirs?. usually buyers documents do not get sent for signing until they have final loan approval.
    in most cases, with all the scrutiny we have now, buyers are not signing until after the lender has reviewed and approved the HUD-1. it sounds like the agent just picked a random term when they said HUD

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    What Cersis141 and gottagrowthings say.
    The closing attorney fills out the Settlement Statement, which is also called the HUD-1. But, just get that term outta your head. Call it the Settlement Statement. It is the form that calculates all costs associated with the sale. It has the bottom line #s for both the seller and the buyer. You and the buyer will both sign it at closing. But not until the attorney prepares it and then sends it to the buyers lender for approval. But before the attorney can fill out this form, they need to receive the loan package from the buyer's lender.
    Sounds to me that you will be closed by day's end Monday.

  • Acadiafun
    9 years ago

    Keeping my fingers crossed for you tomatofreak. Hope to hear good news from you on Monday.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, all. I've lived in AZ since '69. In all my real estate deals, I have NEVER had a realtor refer to the settlement as "HUD". If the lender has been waiting for this form from the escrow agent, you'd think he could have made it plain instead of going on and on about how "all loans need HUD approval" to close. He **still** won't answer my questions about the delay. He says this - the settlement sheet - "wasn't the issue, will explain when we meet up". He is either president of the Clueless Realtors of America - or he is hiding something and has been for a while. I've lost all trust in addition to the bookoo bucks we've lost on this deal.

    Here's to Monday. I'm having a drink now.

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    Please keep in mind that the agent has no fiduciary responsibility to you. Likely his non communication to you is helping his client get this deal to close. There was probably a last minute problem with the buyer's financing that took him a couple of days to work out. Possibly instead of freaking you out with the real cause of the delay and you cancelling the deal, he is opting to "drag his feet" and keep you hanging in there while he figures out how to fix the problem. I still say it will close on Monday.

  • rrah
    9 years ago

    After the HUD-1 form is prepared by the title company, escrow agent, or whomever, the lender must review it and approve it. Only then will they release funds for the mortgage. Even though funds are wired electronically, through the Federal Reserve, this is not a process that takes a few minutes. Imagine a "line" of funds waiting to be wired. I don't recall specifically, but I always knew that if the funds had not been wired before 2 or 3 eastern time, there would be no funds that day.

    FYI--HUD-1 forms have been around for decades. Just because you've never heard it referred to as that, does not mean it did not exist before. This is why people hire agents--to get them through the process and the lingo. I know this buyer fell into your lap, but I'm just saying.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I was in real estate back in the stone ages and even though much (everything?) has changed since then and especially after the housing crash, I still know how things work. And if I don't, I can do the research. And, yes, we always had settlement sheets in the olden days. If he had just once - ONCE - used that term, I'd have known what the blazes he was talking about.

    ncrealestateguy, he is the buyer's agent; however, he wants to be our agent on our next purchase and has already sent us listings to look over. He wants to list our house. He may be walking a fine line, but my problem with him is the evasiveness and poor communication 'skills' - of which I think he's in short supply.

    Yesterday, after a string of confusing texts, he called and began to blame his clients, the title company and the agent for a string of mistakes. I listened, but it did not inspire confidence. Would that have mollified you?

    And, btw, the settlement sheet plainly specifies that signing is on the 29th, Monday, and disbursement is on the 30th, Tuesday.

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    He wants to list your house? I'm confused.

  • ryseryse_2004
    9 years ago

    This is so scary to me (sorry tomatofreak but I'm worried about me.) We have our house on the market. We have a buyer. We need to find a place to live before the closing and if we put a large deposit on a home states away, will we be in limbo until the closing of our current home? We will not need a mortgage so the closing on our side should be quick IF we get the cash from our sale.

    We have a house full of furniture, 2 giant dogs and 5 indoor/outdoor cats to move long distance with us. We can't just put stuff in storage if the sale doesn't go through.

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    Double closings on the same day are risky anymore. Have a plan B if you need to close a few days later on the second home.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ncrealestateguy, our plan was to buy a house we could move into while we emptied this one of nearly 30 years of stuff, plus dogs and cats (who we feel would make showing difficult). The house we're trying to close was a mistake purchase from the beginning, so.... we're trying to start over. Find a house that will work for us and put this one on the market. Said realtor - buyer's agent - wants to be *our* buyer's agent next and our listing agent when the one we currently own/live in is ready to show.

    RyseRyse, I can imagine your anxiety. We're just trying to move someplace in the same metro area; I don't know how we would manage a cross-country move. People do it every day though, so maybe think of Plan B or even C.

    In our case, we had strongly different opinions of how to get out of our current house. I wanted to rent till this one sold; my OH was full of trepidation about that, e.g., we'd never find a landlord who'd rent to us with animals; if we did, we'd have to put up a huge deposit; if we boarded the animals, we'd have a huge boarding fee and on and on. So we didn't do any of those things and, guess what: We spent as much money or more on the reno house and lost several thousand that could have been spent on the rental solution.

    Think it through carefully.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Signing is supposed to happen at 11:30 tomorrow morning. So, of course, it can't close till **Tuesday.** Have to sign yet another extension. Please keep your fingers crossed that we don't encounter another obstacle.

  • kirkhall
    9 years ago

    So weird when signing does not equal closing. In my state, it happens all the same day.

  • lyfia
    9 years ago

    Kirkhall I think it has to do with funding. Not sure if this is on the west coast but I'd so that would be 2:30 EST making it past the wire time.

  • function_first
    9 years ago

    Hope it all went well - or at least "went"-- today, Tomatofreak, and that closing happens as planned tomorrow.

  • lascatx
    9 years ago

    I recently saw your updates. Add me tot he list hoping this has finally worked out for you. If so, it won't matter why the delays occurred - and sometimes something good comes of those headaches - something you never could have predicted and maybe totally unrelated. She wants the house or it wouldn't still be going......Keep the faith.

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    Kirkhall,
    If the wired funds can not make it to the attorney's office by days end, then the attorney will not record the deed at the County Courthouse. Legally, at least here in NC, it is not a done deal until it is recorded. 10 years ago, keys were always exchanged at the closing table. Now, I'd say that 75% of the time, the attorney holds onto the keys until the agents get confirmation that funds were received and that the deed has been recorded.
    I always advise my sellers to keep the home owners insurance intact for at least a day after closing. After all, it is their home until then deed records.

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    It's funded! It's recorded!

    Thanks to all for a good discussion, explanations and, especially encouragement and support. The realtor **still** has not come forth with his promise to disclose reasons for all the delays. Until he does, he won't be either our buyer's agent or our listing agent. I need a break anyhow.

    In the meantime, I never have to go back to that house and do one more thing! YAAAAAAYYYYYYY!!!!!!

  • eaga
    9 years ago

    Yay for you! Congratulations!!

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    9 years ago

    I've been following this, and I'm happy for you. I hope you take a break, then later when you find a house that really does work - that everything goes smoothly with no surprises. It would seem you just about hit all the possible bumps in the road now, so what could be left ;)

  • mostone
    9 years ago

    I'm happy for you!

  • Charlee_MO
    9 years ago

    I read this earlier today and was going to tell you to "hang in there". I recently rented a house to a family that was selling theirs first, then rent mine while they build a new construction. They kept having one issue after another but it finally did go through.

    Glad yours did, too.

  • C Marlin
    9 years ago

    HAPPY HAPPY

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    Good deal!

  • Kippy
    9 years ago

    For a realtor who wants your business, they sure are not showing you that.

    When he(she) finds out you are shopping agents and wants to know why, you can remind them of this experience

  • dreamgarden
    9 years ago

    Excellent news!

  • function_first
    9 years ago

    Wonderful for you! Congratulations!!! Very educational thread, and itâÂÂs even expanded my vocabulary. I had never heard "pig in a pokeâ before this. Thanks to you (and Wikipedia) IâÂÂm using the phrase on a regular basis. ;-)

  • PhoneLady
    9 years ago

    AMEN

  • lascatx
    9 years ago

    Once you got a good offer, I felt sure it would. Sorry it took so much angst for you to get there, but glad it's done. And it's still September! LOL

    Hope the right house works out smoothly for you. I think you're due.

  • gyr_falcon
    9 years ago

    That is wonderful news! I have been following your difficulties, and nice kitchen installation, on the various threads and hoping everything would go through with this sale. It is nice that they really did want to own the house. So glad it worked out for both sides.

    Time to celebrate. :)

    This post was edited by Gyr_Falcon on Tue, Sep 30, 14 at 23:53

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I am so very glad the person who desperately wanted the house got it. It's a classic 4 BR, 2 Ba, simple ranch style that, since 1966, had next to no improvements made, just minimal maintenance. Aside from the old, old, probably builder-installed myrtle hedge along the front, there are only 2 trees and one of those is an overgrown Japanese privet! The other is a sadly broken down tangelo. A row of roses along the driveway had been so neglected, some were dead. Even as I hoped for this sale to close, I had to resist the urge to plant something, anything. I am quite sure that house will never get a tree or a flower. Ah, well; finally I can get back to my own overgrown and neglected yard. Good timing; it's October and time to plant some veggies.

    It is funny how things change so fast. Last week when I was so upset, the realtor wanted to take us to lunch. Yesterday, it was "we should have coffee sometime" and today there was no mention of either. ;-)

    I feel jinxed when it comes to realtors. I don't even know where to start when we do get around to looking again. How many of you in the business get asked for references?

  • sylviatexas1
    9 years ago

    Since the Realtor was representing the other party & was obligated to do everything to make their purchase more advantageous for them, there may not have been anything the Realtor could have done for you.

    A lot of times, it's very difficult to represent one party in a transaction & retain enough good feelings to represent the other party in a different transaction.

    sort of like using your ex's attorney for your next divorce!

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    Sylvia,
    You beat me to it!
    TomatoFreak, please remember that the agent had zero responsibility for making you feel all warm and fuzzy during the transaction. Apparently his client ran into some financing difficulties at the last minute. I would bet that telling you everything up front, like you keep saying you wanted, would have killed the deal. After all, you said you were all ready to not sign another extension. Sure, it was frustrating on your end, especially since you had no one on your side to help smooth out the emotions and help you see the big picture... except the members on GW.
    The buyer hired this agent to get him closed on this property... he did that even though there were serious financing hurdles to overcome.
    PS... I don't believe I have ever seen you over on the Tomato forum. I grow about 50 tomato plants every year, so I visit that forum every once in a while too.

  • Mmmbeeer
    9 years ago

    Tomatofreak, I'm very happy for you--we've been through nail biting, nerve wracking closes and it's so upsetting when you have such a lack of power in a situation where everyone else seems to be messing up that it becomes absolutely obsessive! Glad to read a happy ending!

  • CA Kate z9
    9 years ago

    Good for you! Take a deep breath and relax planting your garden.
    Kate

  • tomatofreak
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    ncrealestateguy, I really am a tomatofreak; I have just given up having much success here in Hades. ;o)

    It is getting cooler, though, and I may just try a fall crop. Hope springs eternal.....

  • ncrealestateguy
    9 years ago

    My heirlooms are still going strong. I pruned to 3 stems this year and they finally outlasted the blight. I don't know where you are located, but it must be hot! Good luck on your fall crop.