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Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Posted by jonw9 (My Page) on
Thu, Jul 18, 13 at 21:42

So, after nearly exactly a year, and two failed transactions, we are again under contract on a home.

During the negotiation, I gave out best/final, and she gave hers and said she wasn't going any lower, so we thankt her for her time, and moved on. 2 days later she called back and split the difference, good.

We already knew she planned on taking all of the appliances. So no surprise there.

Then she wants the contract amended for remain in the house for 14 days after closing. Fine, whatever.

We show up for the inspection, and she is there. Her Dad is there, her Dad's friend is there, and her two daughters. Dad and friend left, but the other three holed up in the Master. I stayed out of there, as I didn't want to interact with her. Apparently she was too ill to leave the house. Then halfway through the inspection, she has Thai food delivered! She seemed fine when she came down for that.

We had the inspection, a few minor issues, nothing major I can't handle, so we removed the contingency with no repairs/concessions on her part. She is a single Mom, and too much house. Most of the stuff is just delayed maintenance. Broken Jacuzzi tub, I can deal with that.

Today, I find out that she (and/or her agent) rejected the appraiser. Not the appraisal, but the guy coming out to do the assessment. The said he didn't know the area well enough. Now, I know with Arm's Length, We/I/my mortgage company cannot pick the actual appraiser. Does the seller have the right to refuse who is chosen?

I would just tell them to pay for their own then, but I don't want them to know how the numbers come out. I still have 5 weeks until closing, and I have no idea what else can happen.

I have never been so frustrated by anything other than the home buying experience. Some people get so riled up, like it is their child in the transaction. I know she is pissed that she thinks I am "stealing" the house, but she came up with the number.

I am bending over backwards for this woman trying to just make it through this deal. I feel like I am getting railroaded again by another shady agent that is manipulating the system to their advantage...


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

I can guarantee you that it is not the agent that had anything to do with denying the appraiser access. Why would he/she do that? Sounds like you have a very high maintenance seller. I would (as a buyer's agent) call the seller's agent and advise her in no uncertain terms that her client is in breach of the contract by refusing the home to be appraised on a timely basis. All RE contracts state that the seller will allow reasonable access to the buyer and their third parties to facilitate the transaction to close.
Also, do not be surprised if the appraisal company charges you a $150 trip fee.
It is time for your agent to step up and let the seller know that the childish games are over.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

It is my understanding that the appraiser made contact (don't know if it was seller or LA), probably to set up a convenient date/time (or maybe to ask if she wants to order Italian this time).

I just found out about this, this afternoon, so I have not had contact with the MTG broker.

My agent says she is leaving it to the MTG company do decide how they are going to proceed.

The LA is a PITA too. We had to go re-sign all of the documents because halfway through the process, he no longer wished to accept e-signatures.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

OP, YOU are paying for the appraisal, not the lender. Your agent needs to step up to the plate and call the LA to let her client know that you will not accept your vendors to be turned away. Especially since the appointment was confirmed. And, it is not the sellers place to determine if an appraiser is "worthy" of appraising the property. If your agent does not stop the shenanigans now, it is likely to get worse.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

While state RE contracts do differ, I'm with the majority here...you, via your mortgage company, are paying for the appraisal. The buyer should have no say in the matter.

You need to assert yourself a little. I appreciate and respect that you've tried to be accommodating, but appraisals are for YOUR benefit, so you must not let them dictate terms.

If the appraisal comes in lower than asking price, you have to make up the difference in your down payment to buy down the note. Don't let the seller force you to pay more for the loan than you otherwise would need to.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

The seller, the buyer, the listing agent, the selling agent and typically the mortgage broker (loan originator) have no say in determining who the appraiser is. Despite the fact that you are paying for the appraisal, the mortgage company will determine who does the appraisal. Many mortgage companies now use a master list of appraisers and just rotate through the list. This is the result of all of the problems and false appraisals that went on during the last real estate bubble.

It seems as if you understand this idea of the appraisal process being "arm's length." Some one needs to clue the seller in on this. Your agent should immediately call the listing agent and tell him/her to inform his/her client of this process.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

To clarify a bit, the appraiser was rejected when he attempted to schedule an appointment, and not at the appointed time. Come to find out, apparently the LA had an appraisal done by this guy in the past, and feels that it was low due to errors/omissions by the appraiser.

It wasn't like he cleared it with me first. This is the stuff that comes down the road while I am at working, trying to make enough to buy this darn house.

I know what happens when the appraisal is low, that is how our first purchase fell apart (on a side note, the house sold for that appraised amount 3 months later).

I honestly didn't think anybody had a say in the matter, and the appraisal is 'hands off'. Is an agent typically present during the appraisal? I guess if 'he' is there, I need to make sure my agent knows and is there as well.

On the other side, I guess I am through underwriting, and all I need is the appraisal and a bank statement to confirm funds at closing.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

The listing agent has no say in who appraises the home. I would tell the closing attorney to put the trip charge on the sellers side of the HUD1 Settlement Statement.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

While it sounds like the seller and LA are a little "problematic" --- to put it mildly --- perhaps the LA is correct that the appraiser may be "problematic" too. If it is indeed correct that the appraiser made significant errors during a previous appraisal, it may be in your interest to have a different appraiser.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

That is not for the listing agent to decide. Maybe the buyer would prefer the appraisal to come in lower than the contract price...


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Not in that case, though. See OP's post above:
"I know what happens when the appraisal is low, that is how our first purchase fell apart (on a side note, the house sold for that appraised amount 3 months later)."

This post was edited by nosoccermom on Mon, Jul 22, 13 at 19:08


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

The first appraisal last year came in tens of thousands low (on a different home).

I am sure the LA is a bit concerned, and is making sure his client gets top dollar. This home has been on sale for a while, and the price has dropped several times, apparently because somebody felt it was worth a lot more (nearly $100k).

If the appraisal comes in low, I really don't know how they would respond. I am pretty sure she 'needs' to sell, but the way the market is now, I don't know what they will do.

I still have not heard back from my mtg. guy to see what the status is. I am trying not to pester too much, since there is still ~5 weeks until closing.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Keeping fingers crossed that everything will work out.
It's a scary situation for most people as it involves more money than any other transaction one is ever involved in.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

I found out today that my mortgage company is going through a completely different company now, and the appraisal should be done sometime next week.

On the bright side, my mortgage guy did a little digging, and come to find out that the guy that was turned away was the same guy that did the appraisal on the first home we tried to buy, when the numbers came in really low!

The LA this time is through a completely different company, but I guess word has gotten around on the appraiser.

I guess all I can do is wait another week and see what happens....


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Isn't this part of what got us in all that trouble before?

Appraiser's being pressured to value homes higher?


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

OP wrote:
"On the bright side, my mortgage guy did a little digging, and come to find out that the guy that was turned away was the same guy that did the appraisal on the first home we tried to buy, when the numbers came in really low! "

Didn't you say that this home eventually sold for the appraised price?
Anyhow, good luck on this next one.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

I did say that the house sold before for the appraised price (within like $2k). It was also re-listed ~6 months later for $50,000 more, and last I saw went pending within a week.

I had the thought too that this guy may have been low considering what the sellers wanted, but on price from what the value was. It is a difficult conundrum.

Apparently a lot of the issue this time from the LA had to do with the appraiser being from an adjacent county, although 17 miles away (I guess the limit is within 30 miles?). The LA said he would accept any appraiser from this county.

There is apparently nothing I can do as a buyer, except be taken along for the ride. I never thought buying a house would be the most agonizing experience that I have had. Selling was so much easier...


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Appraisal scheduled for this Thursday, 2 full weeks after the last one was attempted.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

The seller and her Realtor are ignorant. Try to be patient, as they are too old to learn better.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Oh man, getting close. 18 days until scheduled closing, and I think this appraisal is the last hurdle. Here is the update I just received from my agent:

"The appraisal went well, so [LA] says. Haven not gotten the results on that, but as soon as I do, I will pass on the results.
Had a little glitch with the appraiser. He went out on Thursday morning. [LA] was supposed to meet him. He called him many times, waited an hour and left. He had a trip fee of $125.00

The issue is~ A. The lockbox was on the door, he had access to get in, whether [LA] was there or not. So really, there should be no fee either way.

B. [LA] and his sellers are responsible for the fee if they still plan on charging it. We will recoup that fee in Sellers concessions or another method."

Still not silky smooth...


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

How would the listing agent know what the appraisal is before your agent? The appraisal is paid by you, and you should get the results, not the listing agent.

Do appraisers in your area have access to MLS lock boxes? In my area they don't.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

I don't think anybody has the appraisal numbers at this point. I believe the comment was regarding the appraisal process itself, which happened Friday (although one could argue a no-show by the LA isn't classified as 'going well').

And, it is my (limited) understanding that appraisers are licensed or whatever to be able to utilize the lock boxes.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Lenders are not supposed to divulge the appraisal results with even the buyer's agent unless the buyer has given the lender permission.
Here, in NC, most appraisers have access to the boxes. Also, here, it is the Buyer's agent that meets the appraiser if need be, not the LA. After all, he is working for the buyer. No wonder she never showed up.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Appraiser's access to lock boxes varies. In my area in Oregon, they used to have keypads to access the lock boxes, but no longer do.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

I can see the agent thing both ways. It is the LA that wants to bring comps and help ensure the appraisal goes through. The buyer's agent isn't really going to be there to try and tank the deal by driving down the price (below the agreed value). If the LA manages to get the house to appraise $30k over the contract price, it is of no additional benefit either.

I was a bit annoyed that my agent wasn't there, just to observe the LA with the ongoing issues that we have had with him on the first appraisal attempt. Apparently the 3% commission wasn't enough to justify the extra effort.

On the bright side, the appraisal came back $10k over the agreed price, so that is finally some good news. More annoying news is that in addition to the $125 missed appointment charge, the appraiser is tacking on a $135 "complexity charge" apparently because the comps were extra work!?! I thought pulling comps was the work I was already paying for.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Can we just imagine if this was a FSBO?


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

If it was a FSBO, I probably would not have looked at it... ;)


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Now their Realtor is refusing to pay the $125 charge for missing the initial appointment. He doesn't think the appraiser tried hard enough.

I certainly don't feel like it should be my responsibility to pay, since it was not my fault, and I am already paying for the appraisal, and the complexity charge.

I would think maybe I could try to turn it on my agent, since I suggested to her that she be present as well, do to the ongoing issues with the LA.

My assumption is that he will procrastinate, and at the closing I will be presented with the option of either paying the fee or not closing.

I would like to rescind her rent back out of spite, but it seems anything I do needs half-a-dozen signatures and contract re-write.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

The LA has been gracious enough to pay half of the missed appointment fee that he caused. My agent has agreed to pay the other half.

48 hours until closing!


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Less than 24 hours left until the first planned closing time. I say first because the seller/LA have already asked for a later time, although have not given a specific time. We already know that he isn't well known for keeping his appointments...

Then there is the issue of him submitting paperwork to the title company indicating no rent-back for the 14 days she wants to remain in the house after closing. Apparently hoping that nobody would notice.

Plus he is again refusing to acknowledge the $125 fee for the missed appraisal.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

waiting for the next episode (hope it went ok).... ???


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

No way you should pay for that trip charge. Neither should your agent.
I can not believe that you have agreed to rent back to this owner for two weeks. I predict problems.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Man, that was a mess that I never want to live through again. I think it was the LA more than the seller, and in order to keep it short, there were some shady underhanded tactics used by the LA at the 11th hour. We ended up closing, but at 2 different locations, at 2 different times in order to keep the involved parties separated.

It felt more like a divorce than a closing. There weren't hugs and champagne at the end, no matter what the home shows project.

Seller is closing on the 30th, and her kids start school the following week, so I am thinking she will get out sooner. I don't know if the snake agent would hold the keys longer just out of spite though.

Apparently the $125 fee for the missed appointment was eaten by my mortgage company, as LA refused to pay it.

Seller's agent was out of the same office as my first agent from last year. I wonder if there was some spite involved on her losing out on the commission. Oh well, it is done.

Now, I guess it is time for the appliance, decorating, and other 'fun' forums!


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Glad you closed, jonw9! And looks like you know who not to use as your listing agent when the time comes to sell.


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RE: Buying: The Nightmare Continues

Or, the agent I should use if I want maximum money and a snake willing to stop at nothing to screw the other guy...


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