In my opinion....and I've never been an agent, but worked as a secretary in a RE office... "previewing" a listing only happens on those TV shows about buying and selling real estate.

I can DEFINITELY see where it would be almost twice the work. And most RE offices are probably not going to use a contract that you just printed off the internet.

So what you are all saying...is that all those realtors that wanted to come, 'preview,' my home, were LYING? Shocker! That is just one of the excuses they used to try to get face, to face, with me to solicit for the listing. It all stopped once I got it on the MLS. Once again; Thanks for proving my point for me.
In fact, one realtor didn't do his homework and recently called me using the, 'preview,' excuse. I told him to come on over..then told him it was listed on the MLS. I asked for his phone number, so I could call him, if anything changed with our appointment time. He told me he would email me his info. No email and no show. I was expecting that.
Contracts in my state, are state mandated. So you have to only use specific state forms. Not hard to find on the internet. Like I said before, I have bought a home before and I did all the paper work for buyer and seller. In fact, the title company does most of the work, not the realtor. Fill out the contracts, then hand them over to the title company, or attorney-if that is the route you are going-either way, they still end up at the title company.
If I'm missing something that a realtor is going to have to work twice as hard on my FSBO, then I would like to know. I will do this work, so they don't feel cheated.

There are too many scammers on Craigslist to even think about putting any contact info on there or getting a qualified buyer from that route.

If you want some suggestions as to the first impression that your listing makes on the average person, then provide some pics of the home or the listing itself. The tiresome diatribe against realtors only makes you look contentious and foolish. If you care about that, that is. And, you should care, as it is most likely some realtor that may eventually bring you a buyer. Or not. If a realtor gets wind of your attitude towards them, you may not get many who would want to deal with that. Unum pedibus homo non est tam stultus, ut secaret pedem ejus, eo quod superaverat de festuca.

So what you are all saying...is that all those realtors that wanted to come, 'preview,' my home, were LYING? Shocker! That is just one of the excuses they used to try to get face, to face, with me to solicit for the listing. It all stopped once I got it on the MLS.

I'm confused, if the house was not on the MLS, how did the realtors find out about it? Since it wasn't on the MLS, perhaps they did need to preview it.

What state are you in that residential real estate transactions require a particular form? I don't see how a state can mandate the form used for the sales contract. I do know some make disclosure forms mandatory.

edited due to computer problems

This post was edited by dekeoboe on Sat, Jul 20, 13 at 16:52

Greendesigns...Thank you. This thread has gotten off topic and I am at fault, because I have let the realtors get me off topic. I really should stop defending my position.
To answer other question. I listed my house on FSBO websites. (This is where agents basically buy information, to get FSBO and expired listings.) I had to take all my information off those places, because I was being harassed 6-7 times a day. Yes, My state has forms that the contract HAS to be on.
Enough of that.
I have tried craigslist and I have a lot of pictures of my home. I also have it up on zillow.
Has anyone used redfin.com with any luck?

WOW... talk about self victimization! Holy Crap!

So what you are really asking for, minus the side conversations, is a marketing strategy for selling a house FSBO. Weedyacres listed his strategy on a post about a year ago.

The biggest thing you seem to be missing is a website devoted to the sale of your house. As for signage, you may not be able to post signs in your development, but you may be able to post a sign on your vehicle.

Your current plan with regard to paying a buyer's agents is not working. Raise the amount that you will pay buyer's agents and just factor that into the price. Yes, there are some sleazy real estate agents out there. You are not going to escape them. It helps to have a response worked out in advance to deal with them:

"I would love for you to bring me a qualified buyer. If you are fishing for a listing, please don't waste your time. If and when I decide to list with an agent, I have someone lined up to list it with."

Here is a link that might be useful: FSBO selling strategy

Thanks for the link. (This website is a big tough to sift through. That's why I just asked.) AND thanks for getting what I was asking about.(I understand realtors despise FSBO..big time, hence all the unfortunate hostility. Not exactly helping someone like me to hire any of them.) I had had a speech like the one you had, that I gave to them. I tried to me as nice as I could, 'burn no bridges.' In the long run, they were mad. I had realtors cuss at me, hang up on me, compare real estate to brain surgery and much more.
I know whatever angle I put on the percentage price, it will get spun, but here is a thought; A short sale, that can take 6+ months to close and are usually a super pain, the agents usually split 5%. After splitting with each other 2.5%. After splitting with their broker 1.25%. So, I'm a FSBO who is offering a simple sale, closing in 30 days or less, 2% after their broker split 1%. A .25% difference, between a headache short sale and an easy sale. (yet it would cost me 1%.) I know, I know...no realtor will ever look at it this way.

I found a few good ideas there. I have tried postlets in the past and will renew my listing. Something I had forgot about. Redfin isn't in my area and I'm listing on theroadcode.com.

We have cleaned and I clean every day, to keep it that way. (What do you do with pets? My cats usually hide, when they hear the door bell. But what about their litter boxes?) We have recently painted and put in new carpet, in one of the bedrooms. I do keep getting asked if there are upgrades in the house. Seems like granite is a big deal these days.

I do have a sign in my yard, with flyers. Seems like the flyers disappear everyday, but no calls from them. A house down the road listed with an agent, just came on the market. They are listed at a lower price, but a higher per square foot, by 18.00.

I feel the suggestions of photoshopping and using wide angle lenses, are dishonest. I actually watched an episode of, 'The Lookout,' recently, where they go into all the, 'tricks of the trade.' I personally don't want to, 'trick,' anyone into a showing. I feel that if someone is dishonest in the listing, then I would be wary of what else they are dishonest about.

A wide angle lens can be used appropriately and honestly. I didn't see a suggestion to photoshop the house pictures on Weedyacre's thread.

You can justify offering a lower commission until the cows come home, but in the end, it will either work or not work. And it doesn't seem to be working.

I know what you are going through with the aggressive and sleazy real estate agents. We took our house off the market temporarily and our agent warned us they would call. OMG! There are vultures out there.

Re the cats, most all agents would advise you to remove the cat and the litter box before a showing. Take the cat to the neighbor's house, or put in the car (weather permitting) or the garage. Have someone with a good sense of smell come in and determine whether you have a cat smell in your house. It's a huge turnoff to potential buyers.

I agree with the statement of sleazy agents. It's really hard to find trustworthy people, in any industry, let alone an industry that is based B.S. I personally have had MY agent and the mortgage broker that he suggested, kind of, 'gang,' up on me. I didn't realize it at the time, because I was desperate for a home. Now that I'm purchasing another home, I see what they did to me.
I think I would trust a FSBO more than agents these days.
I hate to agree about the 3%. If you offer more money to the agents, it will get you more showings.

OMG... another victim of lenders and agents. What... did the agent say "buy this home at full price or I will castrate you?" I mean really? Take some accountability of your own actions.
Scaricat, you say you were cussed out by agents asking for your listing... really? I am calling you out.

Yes..really. I can't make this stuff up. Believe me, or not. Why do you think I'm so apprehensive of realtors and agents? I couldn't believe the stuff I heard.
This was all before I went with a flat fee realtor. After a brief conversation with an agent, about fees. She started screaming at me that my house was, 'perfect,' for her client, but she refused to give them my information. As she got louder, I could hear her choke up, saying that she was looking for 6 months for her client and I should pay her for her work. I simply told her it wasn't my problem and she didn't have to do any work for my home, just give them my information. Then the cussing...This is the only person I hung up on. I have more stories like this. Truth is always stranger than fiction.

ncrealestateguy, I'm not sure what "calling you out" means, but I don't have any problem believing that the OP got a whole lot of strange calls from real estate agents trying to get his/her listing.

My experience was that some of them went from cheerful to downright scary when they realized they were not going to get the listing. My house was in the DC-Baltimore metro area and competition there is stiff among real estate agents. Maybe they are more genteel in N.C. Just because you have not experienced it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Now you know why the agents are not happy with you. You expect them to bring a buyer to you and not earn any commission. I wouldn't be happy either.

Maybe instead of just telling her it "wasn't your problem" you should have asked what you could do to work it out. Increase the price? Offer her the 2% you are giving now? (Which you have done now with the Flat Fee MLS). She should not have gotten emotional or cussed you, but based on what you have posted here, I would wonder if you were completely civil.

I have sold FSBO before, and if a potential buyer called me, I advised them to contact any local Real Estate Agent to view the house. That is was best to have a buyer's agent for their own protection. We had offered the standard 3% to buyer's agents.

It was recommended earlier that you post a link to your MLS listing. There are some very creative and knowledgeable people here that can help point out things you may have missed.

Graywings,
Perhaps.
But it has just been my experience throughout my life that people are treated with reciprocity.
And there may be some truth about attitudes being more genteel here in the South.., I hear it all the time from my clients that move here from the NE.

Really.

We aren't "necessary evils".

If you don't want to pay a Realtor for doing his/her job, which is what all this ranting & whining boils down to,
*don't list your house with a Realtor*.

If you want to sell it yourself, *sell it yourself*.

I promise nobody here will think less of you.

Exactly. No one here is a victim or are forced to list their home with a Realtor.
BTW... you are not listed with a Realtor. You paid a data entry person to enter your two or three pictures into the MLS. Real estate agents have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients.

625 homes with an HOA.

They don't PRINT enough money to make me live in a place like that.

Give me my little home here in Vermont on 34 acres.

Having said that, I do see greed on the OP's part. I see someone who "smells" a realtor. And $5000 should be enough to make them swarm to the home. If it is indeed a sellers market, they have lots of other homes to show where they'll get a bigger commission check.

FSBOs work quite well when both sides know what they're doing. As a buyer I avoid FSBOs at all costs, because the seller is too cheap to have a professional handle the sale. Especially when we're in the $250,000 range. I want professionals on BOTH sides of the table at closing.

Even when I purchased the land where I built, professionals represented both parties, because the land cost me $200,000.

Oh well, time to go stack firewood for the coming winter.

I have two sets of friends whose homes sold all cash above asking price within two days with multiple offers (around 900K-1.1 mio range). For one, the asking price was actually substantially higher than what the RA suggested. The buyers saw the for sale sign going up when scouting the neighborhood. Seems to me that 50-60K is pretty easy money in those cases and not easy to justify compared to the commission for a condo sale for, say, 130K.

You don't have to justify it. The sellers and buyers who use our services do.

I would just like to know who is trying to save on the commission.

Do sellers go FSBO to save 6% and pocket it? Or do the buyers go to FSBOs to get a 6% price reduction?

Believe me, I have seen some NASTY sellers! Also NASTY buyers! I cannot IMAGINE them negotiating face to face. That's part of the Realtor's job, to put up with these types of clowns.

Actually, my friends had a hard time justifying it. My point was that a percentage may not be the appropriate way of compensation.
Of course, there are "nasty clowns" as you state. However, there are also reasonable buyers and sellers. I recently purchased a property on the first day it hit the market, all cash offer at asking price. There were some issues later, but the seller and I resolved it in a professional and timely manner, without involving our two realtors. It just seemed easier to deal directly with each other, rather than with four people.
However, you bring up an interesting point: I would assume that the 6% is equally split between buyer and seller.

The seller paid 100% of the commission in every real estate transaction I've been involved in since 1976.

And you really think that the sales commission was not factored into the sales price? Sellers look at what they have to bring to, or take from, the table.
As an aside, there are countries where "the buyer pays 100% of the commission."

This post was edited by nosoccermom on Wed, Jul 24, 13 at 11:05

It depends on your perspective.

The commission is paid from the seller's proceeds of sale...
which is money that the buyer pays.

so a seller would say "I paid the commission",
& a buyer would say, "I paid the commission".

It seems to me that the seller & the buyer in a FSBO sale both want to come out 6% or so ahead.

i copied an older post of mine from 2011 and pasted below, think it's relevent to discussion

So I just wanted to let everyone know I just sold my second house using a flat fee MLS service (notice, this is not a plug for a particular company as no particular service is mentioned). I live in Columbus, OH which is not excactly a booming real estate market. My belief is that realtors will become more and more obsolete as more people realize with a little extra work you can save tons of money (28k for me). It's really very simple: if you have a great house (updated, no clutter, etc) and you price it right (you need comps which are easy to get), a professionally done sign in the yard ($185.00)..IT SELLS. Not rocket science but the realtors will want you to think you NEED them. No thanks, what I NEED right now is as much money out of my house as I can get. The house is advertised exactly the same way-on the MLS and on Realtor.com (I DO NOT believe that paper ads or open houses sell houses but you can do these too if you want). And since you are saving at least 3% and very probably 6% you can price it more agressively and it will sell faster. You offer 3% to realtors so you have just as much traffic coming through.
I was able to sell both houses to people who saw it on realtor.com and came through without a realtor which saved me 28k total for both houses. I paid $299 for the flat fee person to list the house on realtor.com and MLS.
SO, as you go into spring and are thinking of selling, consider this: Realtors don't sell houses, houses sell themselves if they are 1. Posted in the MLS and Realtor.com with great pics (easy to do yourself), 2. Priced right, 3. Updated and free of clutter.
Now go save yourself some money!

I think it's similar to whether you hire an accountant to do your taxes or a travel agent to plan your vacations; or a college consultant or ......

True to a degree, soccermom, but the problem is that the price they charge is not commensurate with the value added. The work could be done for a lot less, but instead the industry still clings to its antiquated model where there are 4 hands in the pot. Flat fee MLS is changing that, but some of us live in areas where the local monopoly still locks it out.

weedyacres, I do believe the NAR does feel pressure with online competition, but only each individual can judge the price is not commensurate with the value added. Also yes sometimes there are four hands sometimes, last time I sold a house there were only three. The listing broker and buyers agent and broker.
Also a successful agent splits little with the broker.
The 6% "standard is dwindling, 5% is standard in my area, maybe 4.5%.
Honestly I know I can do the flat fee, and I sold FSBO years ago, but now, I wouldn't do it. It is my choice, I'm not angry with the agent, since I make the choice to hire him.
I've bought and sold many properties, there are lots of terrible agents, but many, many very good professional agents.

I agree (although I'd like to add that in my area, the top college consultants charge 600.00/hour), but I think that things have changed substantially with all the information available on the Internet now. For example, the last properties I bought I found via Redfin, I researched the property history, comparables, etc. by accessing tax and deed records, then asked RA to take me to the property. Some more online research, offer, acceptance, done. Even when there were issues, with seller/RA covering up latent problems, it was me who uncovered them.
Decades ago, pretty much most of this was done by my RA, simply because the information was not as accessible. Similarly, as a seller, you can find a lot of information about potential buyers through online information. So, yes, making a 60K commission in a few days seems a bit too much for the service.

Update: I have had a lot of showings, over the last week. I have stayed back and let the agents, 'show,' the house. I have had some interesting conversations with agents on the phone. It seems all they care about is their bottom line. It really doesn't matter if the home is perfect for their client. (I'm sure their client uses the internet to search homes and tells the agent what homes they want to see..that is how I bought my last two short sales.) I have actually overheard the agent talking down my home and I'm sure it's because I'm offering 2% and not 3%. How ethical!
On example: I was talking about the area to a couple that was just moving here...(because they asked me, because I lived in the home..simmer down now.) The agent started talking down the area, as if in competition with me to talk. (Great schools, -she said not so great- close to expressways,-yeah, but they are tolls- a historic center,-yeah, we can't make it down here, mall,- traffic, high end restaurants-not good for your children... etc.) I would say unbelievable, but I'm not surprised anymore. Wonder why no one trusts realtors, or agents?

I still wonder why you are involved and talking to prospective buyers? You are defending the buyer asked you, but why were you there for them to ask?

I understand agents call to discuss commission on the phone, we both know the house will either sell or not sell itself, why wouldn't the agent use this phone time to discuss confirm commission. Remember this is a business discussion/contract for both you and the agent, stop personalizing it or don't cooperate with them.

Sounds like she was representing her buyers to me. She doesn't work for you, she works for them and she was representing their best interests.

Only occasionally do I find people that are untrusting of real estate agents. When I do, I CHOOSE NOT to work with them!

Linda is absolutely correct.
Just like YOU were representing your best interests by pointing out items, so was the agent. The buyer will take it all in and make a decision based upon the perceived value that your home offers them.

Yes, but scaricat does have a point: realtors can "talk down" a house and make up potential problems to influence a person not to buy a house. Or they can stay silent on problems with the house or neighborhood that the buyer doesn't know/notice or dismiss concerns they raise in an attempt to influence them to buy the house.

It is hard, especially if you're new to an area, to know whether or not you can trust an agent.

The above realtor retorts to scaricat's pointing out the area amenties look to me like a realtor trying to influence. "beware, nearby shopping means traffic!" Really? As a potential buyer I couldn't figure that out myself and decide whether one outweighed the other? How does the realtor know how I value that trade-off?

Realtors should point out defects the buyer doesn't see (not much closet space in this house), and should suggest ways that objections could be overcome (this garish yellow can easily be painted over for a few hundred dollars). But arguing over whether high-end restaurants nearby are good for kids or not is just ridiculous.

And not every buyer wants to be shielded from the seller. When we were FSBO and people came without agents, I told them "I'll be nearby as you walk through the house, but will stay in the background unless you've got questions" and they all said, "no, show us around." A couple times during realtor showings I went to talk to the neighbor in his yard or Mr. Weedy was mowing the spare lot and they flagged us down to ask questions. You should temper your answers so you're not launching into a sales pitch, but just simply answer the questions and point out the amenities and let the buyer judge whether that suits their needs.

So while you don't want to be overbearing, and you should let the realtor guide the tour without you, it's just plain wrong to say you should never talk to potential buyers. That just sounds like a realtor ploy to make themselves seem indispensable. :-)

Thank you for understanding what I was saying Weedyacres.
I do let them walk around the house, with their agent and I hang in the front room...which is far away from the rest of the house. I cannot hear them talking. I also tell them, that if they have any questions about the house, or neighborhood, then I would be happy to answer those questions. Most people actually ask me questions directly and not the agent.
I'm almost reconsidering my whole angle. Yesterday, I thought I almost got scammed, or burglarized. There are people out there, who prey on FSBO. I felt like my house was being, 'scouted out.' Yes, they had an agent, but I looked into her, only after the fact, when I got the willies. (and I made sure I was far away from them, as they went through my stuff.) We are so quick to trust agents...why? Because they say so? Only after they left, did I realize this, 'agent,' didn't give me a card. (Yeah, yeah..I know. I quickly looked her up...seems strange.)
This, 'agent,' could have been working with these people. I have some non-narotics and they were rifled through and our clothes in our closet, also looked like it was gone through. We have some of our things in our safe and most of our other stuff is boxed up. I was far enough away, not to hear anything going on. Hopefully, they realized we don't have enough loot, to consider robbing.
Don't say that if I had an agent, this wouldn't happen. I technically DO have an agent and this person had to call him, to get my information. Plus, the seller's agent isn't usually at showings anyway.

Now I'm just starting to feel sorry for you, so much going on with every phone call and showing.

Step back and read all your postings, try to be objective, what do you see?

What do I see cmarlin20? I see a lot of spiteful, nasty, greedy, annoying, realtors/agents. And they wonder why I don't hire one! So far, nothing I have seen, has led me to believe, they are worth anything. It's a game of who is the biggest B.Ser.
With every day, (and every day I have at least one showing and my house has been on the MLS for about 2 weeks,) it's a new and exciting day of agents and the unbelievable stuff, that comes out of their mouths. I could write a novel. Like I said before, I cannot make this stuff up.

"In our area, it is a sellers market." And yet you've had no offers at all in 2 weeks in a sellers market.

Something is amiss. Either the condition. Or the price. Or the PITA factor.

The common denominator here in your comments is that you think everyone else is nasty and annoying. The odds are very much against everyone that you encounter being that way. When you hear hoofbeats, think horses not zebras.

Something is amiss, all right.....maybe the sellers and/or their agents are afraid to enter into a transaction with the OP. One conversation with the homeowner hovering greedily and angrily around them is clearly be enough for a pass. Of course it could be the house, the price, AND the paranoia.

I doubt ScariCat is the reason for no offers. Selling a home is a PITA, most agents are looking out for their pocketbook (can't blame them, they have to eat too), and a lot of potential buyers are less than considerate (this forum is littered with stories).

However , if you do live in a seller's market, ScariCat, and have had a decent amount of showings in two weeks with no offers, it may be time to reconsider your price.

Good luck!

Xanax?

Haldol.

Lots of comments in this thread are neither constructive nor friendly to the OP to say the least. In MHO, some comments are down right stupid and mindless.

FSBO is not that difficult. Thousands and hundreds home owners have done it, and are doing it and will do it. Many with successful results. We did it too.

We did not (still do not) have any association with real estate industry. We are not "professional", and our house was way more than $250K. Yet when we did FSBO, we sold the house way more than similar houses sold by any realtor in our neighborhood during that same period of time.

FSBO takes work, but it is very very doable.

As a matter of fact, it was a good GW poster who taught us to FSBO. It is the time for us to pay back the favor. OP, feel free to drop me an email through the address listed under "my page", I would be glad to share our experience.

Well said AZmom.

"Lots of comments in this thread are neither constructive nor friendly to the OP to say the least."

No wonders why, either.

"Lots of comments in this thread are neither constructive nor friendly to the OP to say the least."

My comment was constructive, the OP needs a reality check, he paints himself as a victim of evil agents, that mindset is not constructive to his goal of selling his house. He needn't cooperate with agents, he is control of his house, if he chooses to cooperate, he is still in control not a victim of an agents goal to make commission.
It is a business transaction, no need for him to be fearful and angry.

I just re-read the OP and remembered this regarding calls by Realtors trying to list your FSBO home -
If you are on the National Do-Not-Call Registry, Realtors are not supposed to call you unless they have a buyer interested in your home.
If they do call you, they are subject to fines, which may take something to pursue, but just get their brokers' names and take it up with them, and then the local board if they don't or won't. That's an easy start. The one thing about Realtors is that they are all easy to find on the internet and their broker and local board, if they are legit, licensed, and actual Realtors or even Real Estate Agents.
Brokers all have to have some sort of do-not-call procedure to prevent this from happening.
You can also put a single sentence in your ads that states the fact that you are on the Do-Not-Call registry and that solicitation calls will be reported, that sort of thing.
Not sure if you tried this, but it should be some relief from the onslaught of soliciting listings.

Here is a link that might be useful: Article from Realtor magazine

WOW! I wish I had known that when I was selling my house and then took it off the market.

Probably can sue them in small claims court for at least 500.00 a pop (at least in my state) and more if they keep on calling. That should add up to the 3% commission quickly.