Tball costs money; dance costs money; science fairs cost money; ...

1 and 3 yrs old are actually quite inexpensive. They are happy with a box of crayons, and some homemade playdough.

I'm there with you, except about 3 years ahead--6.5 and 3 yr old. And, the kindergartener cost me more money this year than I would have ever guessed...

Just be fully informed, and take all of this into account for your decision.

(Also, were you not banking your entire salary when you worked before you had kids)? Why not?

kirkhall:

Thanks for the input regarding costs for school-aged children. That's definitely something I haven't fully wrapped my brain around.

We didn't bank my income at the time because my husband was making about $35,000 less, so we were actually making about the same as now. I do admit that, because we are able to save some now (we saved $10,000 in about a year's time without a real plan), we could have saved more back then. No excuses. We just didn't. We travelled, we ate out, we furnished our apartment...I guess because we didn't have good financial role models growing up, we didn't really realize how much we were just wasting money. We just paid the bills at the start of the month and spent the rest. We're determined to change that now, though.

Thanks for the congrats, weedacres. Our car loan has about $15K left on it. THe car is 2 years old with very low miles (albeit city miles). We hope to drive it into the ground. :)

I think my question is this deal too limiting for you and your family? That amount of square footage for your size of family is definitely on the lower end. It is doable but how comfortable would it be as the kids get older, bigger, and accumulate more stuff? How long could you be trapped in a place that no longer meets your needs. There may be a long waiting list now for the development but could change as other developments become available.

Your husband's pay has gone up drastically and you have saved some money without much of a plan. So now I would see how much you could save with you becoming a dedicated saver. Then, once you have returned to work, save even more and get into something that you really want. There will be other opportunities in the future, this is not your only chance.

Won't all the families that are buying in this developement have issues with raising a family in an expensive neighborhood and school? It seems that the school will have to realize that many families won't have the resources for expensive activities, fees etc depending on how many units are being constructed.

I think you can do it financially as I read your posts. I do wonder if you really want to live in this new place with your comments and lack of enthusiasm. Yes, kids cost money, but many of these costs people mention are options. You can buy an expensive present for the birthday party, or you can be quite reasonable. I kept what I called a Birthday Closet in a cupboard, and I tried to stay one gift ahead for the next boy or girl birthday party (I had both.) I learned to take advantage of sales and buy ahead. You don't have to enroll your kid in the expensive after school art class. But even scouts cost money. I think you need to sit down with pencil and pad and work out the insurance, taxes, etc. Then you need to make a double list of pros and cons of living in this place or staying put.

Do you really want to move into this place? You say you will know more when you see it built. Let me warn you if you are going to keep checking on your unit, at some stages the rooms look large, and at other stages they look small. The best help to me is to measure the rooms you live in and then compare to the measurements of the new place.

You apparently have a few months before you would sign the paperwork or be past the point of no return. In the meantime, save like mad, create a budget, live within it, and decide what you really want for your home the next decade.

Well said, Sheila.

At least a few months living like you will need to (fiscally) in your new space can give you an idea if it will be worth it.

$600k is based on "the median home purchase is around $1M each" said in your post. Assume it is the price of the house you would move into after you leave the current unit which has market value of $600k (but you receive a break for only $300k).

Assume your husband would make $140k/yr after 5 years(this may be optimistic given the current economic climate most employees get little raise or nothing at all) and would obtain a mortgage of $400K (again, this may be optimistic), you would need to come up with $600k for the down payment.

I did not include any equity from the unit when you sell it, because during first 5 years most of the mortgage payments would go to paying interest. Also, you won't have any upside equity growth due to resale restriction.

The number I used may be totally off, nevertheless I am curious as how would you find a humble house for $600K if your current condo unit's market price is already $600K? I doubt using 20% rule for downpayment is fault proof. In areas housing price is way above average wages, downpayment is the difference between house price and mortgage amount the buyer could obtain.

It is good that you plan to return to work. You may want to take courses that would allow for higher paying jobs. I know quite a few friends either changed major or completed graduate school while staying home with small kids.

You can get approved for a $300,000 loan. So why not go and buy that SFH fixer upper that you described, now? Or, since you are currently saving $1000/month, and currently have some funds for a down payment already, why not just save for a couple more years instead of relying on housing welfare?

PeaG, some other thoughts. What do the numbers look like when you look at moving into a TOWNHOUSE, not a single family home? Not one in the sort of program you describe, but just a regular townhouse.

Since you mentioned being good with living in a townhouse for a time, maybe you should look at what's available. It would also be a good experiment with property ownership. Buying a fixer-upper when you've never previously owned a place sounds a little dubious to me, honestly.

Last but not least, it sounds like your husband's career will always keep you near a city. Maybe you should try a little harder to embrace the lifestyle and think in terms of parks and museums instead of yards and single family dwellings. Just something to think about.

As a former teacher, have you considered teaching preschool or at a day care (somewhere that your kids could attend while you work) or in-home day care for other kids? Just a thought for something that would help you earn some extra money that could go straight to savings. (I'm a working mom and at one point had a nanny who brought her son with her. He was the same age as my son. Worked out OK for all of us.)

A pre school teacher makes very little money. A regular teaching job or a shared teaching job will result in a far better salary.

sheila: I thought of a pre-school or day care in case her kids could be with her (otherwise, the cost of day care exceeds salary.) After I posted I realized that this was not at all the OP's question, so apologies to the OP for getting off topic.

I have many of the same concerns that others listed above. Also the fact that the whole building / development will be designated for low/moderate income housing gives me pause. If none of the units can be sold for profit, where is the incentive for others to keep their units well-maintained? Although the building is shiny and new now, in 5-7 years it won't be, especially if there are owners with little incentive to maintain / improve their property.

sheilajoyce: Yes and no. Would this be my choice if money were no object and time were on our side to save and buy a house that we could retire in? No. I would buy a 1300-1800 square foot single family home with 4 bedrooms, a fireplace, and a small yard with mature trees and a place to have a vegetable garden. But nothing is perfect and we didn't set ourselves up well to do that and we don't want to be paying a mortgage after retirement if we can help it.

The problem with what I want above, is that I want it to be near to Boston. I don't want to live in some remote suburb with little culture and a terrible commute into the city. My husband thinks he would be happy to do that, and has tried to sell me on the small SFHs 20ish miles outside the city. But, as a stay-at-home mom, I value walkable neighborhoods, public transportation, and activities for the children nearby. I would be very unhappy (and I think my kids ultimately would, too) being far from these amenities and having to drive everywhere, especially long distances for anything fun.

This condo, in a way, is what neither of us wanted and yet what both of us wanted. It's in an urban area, is .5 miles to the nearest T stop, and has two urban squares with walking distance. Yet it's up on a hill that feels like a leafy suburb and there will be a park built right across the street, so the green space appeals to my husband. His commute would also be fantastic (he could even walk on a really nice day).

Is the inside space what I had hoped? No. Do I think I could make it work? I think so. I'd be a million times happier if it just had a basement and a tiny fenced in area that was "ours," but there will be a storage locker and a communal "green space," so that's something. I guess I just feel that this is our best option without waiting another 5 or more years before we would be able to save enough to do what we'd really want to do. And who knows what could happen to interest rates in that time. If they rose, and home prices didn't correspondingly fall, we'd be able to afford even less.

ncrealestateguy said:

"You can get approved for a $300,000 loan. So why not go and buy that SFH fixer upper that you described, now? Or, since you are currently saving $1000/month, and currently have some funds for a down payment already, why not just save for a couple more years instead of relying on housing welfare?"

A $300,000 fixer upper wouldn't put us in a town we'd want to be in. In our current town, the most recent sale that came even close was a tiny fixer cape for $350,000 that needed asbestos abatement, tree removal, a replacement roof and furnace, and was "plumbed for a 2nd floor bath" (which meant there was a huge gaping hole upstairs, basically. We actually considered it for a bit, but then realized we were crazy.

We could certainly save for some more time and then get what we would really like. But even for a $400,000 SFH where we'd want to live, we'd need to save for 70 months at this rate just to get a down payment, and that doesn't include emergency funds, closing costs, etc.

chicagoans wrote:
As a former teacher, have you considered teaching preschool or at a day care (somewhere that your kids could attend while you work) or in-home day care for other kids? Just a thought for something that would help you earn some extra money that could go straight to savings. (I'm a working mom and at one point had a nanny who brought her son with her. He was the same age as my son. Worked out OK for all of us.)

I did work as a nanny when my first daughter was small. It was a lot of work, since the children were at very different stages developmentally, but since the girls I nannied for were twins, it was doable. Now that I have two young children, I don't think it would be fair to any of the children in my care if my attention were further divided. My kids area exhausting enough on their own. :) And I personally wouldn't want to hire a nanny who would be toting along her own kids who would be bringing their own set of germs, naptime space needs, etc and imagine that's true for most people.

sheilajoyce said:
A pre school teacher makes very little money. A regular teaching job or a shared teaching job will result in a far better salary.

I was actually a Kindergarten teacher (although in a private school, not a public one - typically private school teachers make lower incomes). I am certified to teach preschool through 6th grade (but beyond 2nd or so just isn't for me), and have my masters in child development.

Oh, and chicagoans, I could possible teach in a daycare where my children could attend, but I don't know how that's done around here. My friend does this in North Carolina. Her one daughter attends her center, and she still has to pay 1/2 of the tuition rate, which wipes out about 60% or so of her take home pay. So that scenario wouldn't work with two kids. But maybe it varies by center.

My staying home with the children is also a decision based on our values. We both really want our children to be home with me, to have a parent present for all of their milestones and learning experiences, and for me to be putting my teaching training to use on our own children.

PeaG said:
"I don't want to live in some remote suburb with little culture and a terrible commute into the city."

Wow. What an attitude! Have you even been to some of these suburbs? I have lived on the waterfront in Boston and in several of the Boston suburbs. 20 miles from downtown Boston is not even close to being remote, there is plenty of culture and the commute can be decent if you choose wisely.

Obviously you made up your mind before you even wrote this post. Yes, the best thing is for you to buy this unit. Good luck.

chispa said:

Wow. What an attitude! Have you even been to some of these suburbs? I have lived on the waterfront in Boston and in several of the Boston suburbs. 20 miles from downtown Boston is not even close to being remote, there is plenty of culture and the commute can be decent if you choose wisely.

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to be insulting. I chose my wording poorly and intended to say "cultural amenities," meaning museums, activities for children, restaurants, festivals, etc. I often write these replies when I get a rare moment when my children are occupied (and still often wind up getting interrupted and losing my train of thought). I didn't mean to imply that suburbs are cultural wastelands, just that they don't always have easy access to the amenities I prefer. Yes, I have been to many of them and have friends who live in Lexington, Melrose, and Natick who are very happy there.

I haven't made up my mind. I was simply trying to further illustrate why we were thinking this condo could make sense for us.

Obviously which choice to make depends on one's individual situation and preferences. If it was me -- I would buy a house in a suburb. In fact, that is what I actually did when I had small children. Yes, there are trade offs but it was worth it to me to have a house that cost what I was wanting to pay and I found that the suburban areas were very family friendly. Now that my kids are older we still live in a suburb -- a different one but find that we rarely have to go all the way into the big city. There aren't many museums in the suburban areas but there are many, many activities for children, restaurants, festivals, etc. Just may depend on the specific of what you want. And for the things we had to go into the central city for -- such as museums -- we didn't find it onerous to do so.

In your situation there is sufficiently negative about the condo you are thinking of buying and the overall situation that if it was me I wouldn't buy it even if that meant I was renting instead....

Living in that small condo is going to be a problem for your family over time. Why move from a larger unit where someone else pays all maintenance into a smaller unit where you pay all maintenance? The smaller unit is a lower quality of life or your family and there is a cost to this that you are not adding into your calculations.

It is going to be like living in an apartment. You won't be able to have a yard for the kids the play in. This is a big deal. And you won't be able to get a dog and let it out in the fenced yard like folks in SFHs can do. A condo is more like an apartment versus a SFH.

You should consider buying a SFH a little farther away for the same price. You then don't have to give up equity. You then have a yard and a garage hopefully. And you won't be stigmitized as living in the projects....I mean low income housing or whatever you call it. It is a stigma and the stigma will be with your kids at school whether you like it or not.

In the condo, you will hear folks that are on the other floors and you will hear folks that are on the other side of your attached walls.

When it's time for a new faucet or of the fridge breaks in 4 years, you will be paying for it. Stained or ruined carpet, you pay the bill. this stuff occurs even with newer homes/condos.

the tiny financial gain on owning this condo is wiped out by the negative of moving into a smaller unit and also wiped out by the stigma of living in the projects/low income housing. You are putting your family a notch lower in social pecking order.

A bit of a digression but: I commend you PeaG for being so tolerant and receptive of all these comments and suggestions, some of which are certainly critical.

It isn't easy to stay calm and cool during an online forum discussion and I admire your manner of responding courteously to all points raised.

That's all, back to the discussion at hand. Good luck with your decision!

I would be very unhappy (and I think my kids ultimately would, too) being far from these amenities and having to drive everywhere, especially long distances for anything fun.

Your children couldn't care less where they live...home is anywhere their mother and father are. You might have an issue if you were planning to move to a different area when they are teenagers, but at this age it's really a non-issue. Living in the suburbs can actually offer many more opportunities for children and their families than being in the city. Better schools, smaller classes, more opportunities to participate in extra-curricular activities etc etc... I think you need to open your eyes to other possibilities.

"Your children couldn't care less where they live...home is anywhere their mother and father are."

I grew up living in an apartment with no yard. As a child, it was horrible to not have a yard to go toss around a ball or play. I knew is was a terrible place to live even when I was a child.

khinmn92 wrote:

Living in the suburbs can actually offer many more opportunities for children and their families than being in the city. Better schools, smaller classes, more opportunities to participate in extra-curricular activities etc etc... I think you need to open your eyes to other possibilities.

True enough. But as I mentioned, this town in which this condo is located (Brookline) has exceptional schools with high budgets and class sizes. It's consistently ranked in the top 20 schools in the state by various publications. So, it's not as though one HAS to go to the far away suburbs to get that.

Thanks, runninginplace! I appreciate your comment. :)

Sorry - the post above should read low student-teacher ratios, not "high class sizes."

You could get much better value, larger house and be in a higher rated school town. We lived in 2 of the top 5 rated school towns and there were lots of people who came from the areas of Brookiline, Cambridge, Belmont, etc. after having kids. There was some complaining about less choices of restaurants, but no one complained about the better schools and space for the kids to play.

Just want to add there are lots of museums outside the downtown area. I lived in Acton many years ago. Very near there is the DeCordova with a beautiful outdoor sculpture garden that we brought our kids to all the time. There is the Concord Museum, the Children's Museum, Fruitlands Museum, a National Audubon Society farm property, the North Bridge Museum, and that's what I come up with off the top of my head! These places all have children's programs and cultural activities, workshops, classes. Oh, and Walden Pond was one of my childrens' favorite places. Swimming, practically free too. We also visited many other places, there are museums and cultural offerings all over that area. It is a very educated and fairly affluent population so these activities are well supported.

As a former kid from the suburbs, I can say that taking a train or bus or even a car to a museum in the city makes the trip about 500 times more fun than walking to the museum when it's down the block. (Okay, as an adult I feel the same way if you strike out "bus".)

Just saying, the kids won't suffer from the lack of museums in the burbs. You will take them and it will take longer and it will be fun. And the suburbs aren't really a cultural wasteland.

I'm with fori.

If your main reasoning is "lack of culture" that isn't true of the suburbs.

If your main reason it commute time. Well, then, I can't comment on that. Since I don't know your area well. But, I suspect that the commute time can be short in certain suburbs with certain methods of transportation.

Truly, you need to determine if you are being fair with your assessments--of the area (you said later it was more diverse than you initially stated); of your lifestyle now; of your lifestyle in a smaller, cramped space, etc.

I just know, that my friend who bought a townhouse in the city has been stuck there for 5 years now because they don't have the equity to move out to the suburbs like she'd like to be able to. And raising 2 kids in the city isn't really working out like they thought it would.

My husband and I are around the same age and live in the Boston suburbs, so we have similar circumstances except no kids atm. We also just concluded a 2-3 year house search 2 years ago with our first purchase.

From all you've shared, I think if I were you I would participate in this program in a heartbeat.

Pros:
-*Much* higher ranked schools in this town. Even if you stayed 5-8 years you're going to take advantage of the school.

-Shorter commute for your husband.

-It's a "burb", but not quite a burb. Offers so much amenities of a city with all the advantages of a surburb.

-Say you put down 5% or so down, 30 year mortgage. Your mortgage is likely to be 1400ish/month + 400 condo (are you sure? In my area, these restricted sale townhouses pay about 1/3 the condo fees the rest of us do) + much less taxes also, because 1.5%ish tax rate is based on your estimated home value.

My point is you probably pay $2K-2.2K/month for housing cost to live in this marvelous area, a small part of that going towards equity. (Some budget for things like heat, water increase.)

Now if you lived in your rental, you are subject to occasional rent increase, and you never get anything back.

The minute your rent increases (at whim of landlord) you'll need to look elsewhere, probably move further away like to Natick to maintain that house size.

-These affordable units are usually priced at 1/3 the cost of actual market costs, afaik. So what if you can't sell for a highly appreciated price? When you sell, you will get your equity back + some inflation protection.

In the meanwhile you get to live in an area others are willing to pay 2-3X more for. Why are they doing that? Because it's worth it to them.

-You'll never have a problem selling this house. ;)

----------------
Cons:

-Sounds like you get a smaller house than you'll like.
1250sf condo instead of 1500ish currently.

But you know, smaller spaces can work even with 4 people. Plenty of people (including me ;) )grew up in a 1200sf apartment for 5-7 people. Kids can share rooms and develop closer sibling relationship.

Will be nice to have more room, but you're giving them excellent schools and environments to grow up in. What's worth more?

-It may be a small stretch for your budget. This is tough - only you can decide if your budget has the flex to allow for unexpected expenses, and they *will* crop up.

Unexpected medical, bracers, vision, gas price increases, appliance malfunctioning, school trips, extra classes for kids, emergency savings. Is your husband's job secure? Is his wages very variable?

-Would you feel bad being the poor kid in the neighbourhood? Will your children, when they go to school with kids who can afford the latest toys and cool birthday parties? This may be a consideration, esp since in the wealthy areas of boston metrowest *everything* seem to be marked up. (Restaurants, groceries cost more, gas prices cost more, etc)
---------------------

-You may be 1 income and live in expensive Boston metrowest but imo your income is actually decent for your needs. If I were in your shoes I would do this immediately, and sign up for programs in other desirable suburbs. :D

In the townhouse complex I live now, there are 3 affordable units and I haven't heard these neighbours mention/comment on problems with anything.

It may be worth it just for the Brookline schools.

The OP is entitled to want to live wherever she wants. Plenty of normal, intelligent kids grow up in apartments, townhouses and condos in cities. Single family houses are not the gold standard for everyone. Our oldest child still bemoans the fact that we took him from an apartment on the 31st floor of the upper east side of Manhattan to a gorgeous small town in suburban St. Louis (Ladue). The other kids were too young to complain but as adults they all wish we had stayed in NYC--- as do I! Kids don't have a bad life in cities, they have a different life. PeaG's kids can play in the park every day and will have access to more activities. When they go to school she can go back to work part time. Moving to a smaller place is not the end of the world. They can probably get rid of 250 square feet of junk!

PeaG, there is one thing I would be concerned about, and that is the "assisted housing" aspect of this move. One poster above said that you would be lowering your socioeconomic status to move into this development. I have no idea if that is true, but if it is, DON'T DO IT. How can you know? Look at the educational level of the people there. You have your masters and obviously your husband is at least a college grad.v what about your potential neighbors? Their level of educational attainment AND a sampling of their professions will tell you a lot. I'm not trying to be elitist, but you won't have much fun there if the other parents in the kids' school won't mix socially because of where you live, and/or if there are no kids in the development you want your kids to play with (kids who don't read, or exercise, who don't want to go to museums or plays, etc.)

If those questions are answered to your satisfaction, I would make the move if you can get rid of one of your cars. If your husband will be 2.5 miles from his job, he can take public transport or ride a bike. Then you can save the amount of the payment and/or upkeep. After you have a decent emergency fund you can start paying more down on the house or just save for your eventual down payment on something larger.

Good luck with this decision. You have been unbelievably gracious in accepting some comments on this thread that were rude or ignorant (or both) and I wish you well.

My read of your posting is that the condo isn't really where you want to live. You say you want to use it as a forced savings vehicle. Just force yourself to save, living where you are, and you get the benefit of renting a below market place that is larger and saving. When you've saved enough then move to where you really want to live. You need to think long term. Getting into and out of a house is expensive. In the long run you will be far better off getting into the right place and staying put.

I also agree with those thinking about the socioeconomic status issue. We live in an upper middle class to upper class neighborhood (home prices to about a million). About 7 yrs ago an older gentleman sold a house below market to a family of drug dealers. As a neighborhood we've been very unsuccessful at dealing with them. They've been under foreclosure for over 6 yrs. Living in subsidized housing means you will be surrounded by those who really can't afford to be where they are.

What will this mean when they stop making payments but the bank can't get them out? What sort of kids will they have? Will they care about the neighbors when they have loud parties or start dealing drugs to make money? I suggest you move into a nice neighborhood where people have worked for what they have and have pride of ownership. Our HOA has been useless. We have DEA agents creeping through the yard with guns drawn and the kids spread eagle over police cars as they search the house. Going on 7 yrs of this. The house is completely trashed and may have to be torn down due to drug contamination. If you have to sacrifice your city amenities to get into a good place with people who take pride in their homes and worked hard to get there in the long run you will be much happier. Read a bit about what happened to tenement housing. This new development could turn into one.

Oops, meant to say look at what happened in the project housing, not tenement. Another example is what happens to neighborhoods when there are a large number of foreclosures. A quick decline, with alot of crime.

Mic11, while I sympathize about the horrible ordeal your neighborhood is dealing with, I find your general attitude on the socioeconomic status apalling.

OP, certainl take the socioeconomic aspects into consideration. Classism certainly is alive and well. I can share with you my experiences on that scale. I was born in Oregon and for the first 8 years of my life lived in low income housing (not subsidized home loans like you are talking about). This was in a more affluent neighborhood. At that time, I had no clue as to the differences between myself and my school peers. As a kid, it was a great place to live as there many other kids to play with.

We left OR for NC. There, low income housing was a different animal and I was more aware of my different racial status than the economic status (there were only 2 Caucasian families in this large complex, us being one). But, I still had many great friends to play with as there were a lot of kids.

The move to NC was because my step-dad was a Marine. Once we moved into base housing and changed schools I was much more aware of my difference. My step-dad was enlisted and the school I went to with the accelerated program had mainly officer's children. I think my awareness stemmed more from the military culture though. Looking back, I wished I had been in that school system longer. My education would have benefited sooo much, it would have been a great opportunity if I was keenly aware of the differences in status.

Later I lived in a trailer park in NC and then we moved to California where attitudes on socioeconomic status are more relaxed but the disparities were more visible (think the Palm Springs area, huge disparities). Some areas had more drugs than other. Most of the kids I grew up with/around became successful, responsible, tax-paying citizens. Some are probably in jail but, I have no doubt that some of the "rich" kids are in jail too. I am grateful for the lessons I learned navigating those spheres and how they have led me to be a compassionate, well-rounded adult.

Of course now I live in a semi-rural community on 5 acres but that is more because I wanted space to garden but my family could also be happy in the city.

I hope OP can return and update us on status soon.

I don't think the OP will have the low income housing problems you guys worry about. In this area (Boston suburbs) these 40B developments are really nice.

The developer usually builds his normal premium townhouses/condos for sale, but if he allocates 25% for 40B like the one OP wants to move into, he will find it easier to get approval for his plans. So really she will be moving into a place others will pay 3X the price for, in exchange for restrictions on resale.

For her part, even taxes/maintenance fees are usually decreased and about 1/3 lower than that for other residents. The only downside she will risk is envy from neighbours who can't qualify for the deal.

http://www.westboylston-ma.gov/Pages/WBoylstonMA_ZBA/40bfaq.pdf here's an example from a quick google search.

tishtoshnm,

I'm curious as to what you find appalling? My experience is that buying in an area where people can afford their homes will make it a better area. For example when I bought my first home I paid $150K in a 1970s development of older homes. Realtors thought I could qualify for up to $350K but I wasn't comfortable buying at the level they suggested as I did not see how I could ever pay off the house. I had saved up the required 20% down payment for the house I bought. There were many $300K-$400K new neighborhoods in the area that could get anyone in, no matter their qualifications. They were very nice houses. Much fancier than the one I bought. Then housing went bust. My little 1970s neighborhood had no noticeable foreclosure rate. No crime popped up. It maintained a good reputation and that house is worth $300K today. The neighborhoods where people couldn't really afford their payments had massive foreclosures and really hurt the values of those who were paying their mortgage. Those homes are worth half what they originally were sold for. When folks can't afford to pay they don't improve, don't keep things up and some segment will turn to crime to support themselves.

I grew up in an early 1900s house which today is a section 8 house so in no way would be considered an affluent area. We had great neighbors but everyone pretty much could afford their house. I remember some teen age trouble makers but don't remember there being foreclosures. Back then to buy a house people had to save up a down payment and then buy something they could afford.

All I'm doing is suggesting the OP look for such an area that meets their requirements for where they really want to live. I see no conflict with anything you've posted about how you grew up. Going to college I didn't even know I grew up lower economic class until I took a class which discussed it and everyone had to self identify so I went to the middle class group. Then when they started discussing what everyone in the group had a couple of us, myself included, had to switch groups and my upbringing fit in the lower economic class.

I'm not on the board qualifying people for the properties the OP is looking at. Maybe those properties will have a better ability to move out non-paying residents. But if they don't, the risk to the OP is huge in terms of quality of life if they find themselves unable to afford to move out.

BTW, our home is paid for. As is that of several of the neighbors I know well enough to know their financial status. Several I know have mortgages but they are lower than what the OP is looking at paying. People who have overextended themselves to live here are more on edge and a bit more high strung. Everyone has to make a choice how they want to live and I'm a fan of living well below my means. Always have been. I don't get cable TV and my car is 13 yrs old but paid off. I paid cash for it. Spouses car also paid cash for and is 10 yrs old. We could afford to buy new cars and pay cash. But can't see the point since ours work just fine. Some furniture is from garage sales but is solid wood and nice enough. Some I've had since when I just got out of college. I liked it then and still do. We own an RV. Guess what? We paid cash for it. But only after we paid off the house. We don't buy stuff we can't afford to pay for and we don't buy things that aren't what we want just because we can or it is on sale.

OP's original question was "This place is not a bad opportunity, but not what we always hoped for (our own small space without shared walls, a yard, etc.), so if there's another way we should look at this, I'd love to hear it. "

The OP also said "Income limit for a family of four is just over $100,000. This is for the "moderate income" batch of units in the development. It goes up to the median income in the town. 1/2 of the units are being offered to families in the moderate income bracket, 1/2 are being offered to families considered "low income" (>80% of the median). The units for each income category are identical, so we'd be living immediately next door to people in the exact same unit who paid $150,000 to get in. The lowest cost units are 2-bedrooms for $140,000. There are no market rate units, but they did sell plots of land on the same property for people to build market rate homes. The plots of land sold for $1M each."

This is where my alarm bells went off. A concentration of people taking homes just because they can, not necessarily where they want to be, planning to be temporary residents and potentially not financially able to be in the house.

That is the question I was answering and they may or may not value the perspective of someone like myself. Seems you don't but I still don't see what is so appalling about my perspective. Yours is a fine one. You grew up in low income housing and know lots of successful people. Personally I think that is a completely different situation than subsidized housing. I have family in the military and 4 nieces and nephews getting a similar upbringing to you. They are getting exposed to good hardworking people. Nothing wrong with that.

I'd live in a trailer park if everyone owned their own units and was keeping them up. When we leave this house I would love to get a little place like my 1970s ranch. Small, cheap to keep up, and good no crime neighborhood with relaxed residents.

My reaction is to the notion that socioeconomic status is the determing factors as to whether or not people take care of their property and what kind of children they may have (more so the children). Pride of ownership can transcend poverty, loud parties can happen in any neighborhood. Drugs (as you know) are not to limited poor neighborhoods.

My prefernece would be to also look for my own place without the constraints of living in such a development. Whether or not the decision to move into this development is worth the trade offs can only be determined by the OP but this type of development certainly does not seem to be at risk for becoming tenement like.

Then I think you read my original post wrong or I did not express myself well. The OP states they already live in an affluent area. This 'opportunity' would get them into a more affluent area but with people who are living in subsidized housing. I gave an example where people in an affluent area where they couldn't afford their housing decided on crime for an income. This same family living in a more appropriate house, that they could afford to pay for, maybe wouldn't be drug dealers.

I can't pretend to really understand the mentality of wanting more, more, more. But I think I understand the mentality (at least a little bit) of those who try to be on public assistance. They've learned that people will give them stuff for free. They've also learned that if they do things for themselves they won't get as much free stuff. In fact the less they do the more free stuff they get. I think (and I may be wrong) a subsidized housing environment is likely to attract this type of person. It certainly wouldn't attract someone like me and it sounds like it wouldn't attract someone like you either.

No one goes around handing out subsidized houses in a normal neighborhood. I feel your going to get a better class of people (at all economic levels) in this type of neighborhood and that is how I would make my choice on where to live.

Mic, the reason that towns in Massachusetts "go around handing out subsidized housing" is because it's a state law that 10% of a town's housing must be developed as affordable housing.

I live in one of the affluent metro-west Boston communities that has actually reached the target percentage. At one time I considered one of the moderate income developments in this town, but ended up buying the house of a family friend instead. AFAIK there is no significant stigma to living in one of these developments.

Peag, I think you should go for it if you like the house reasonably well. The numbers don't seem that bad to me - I pay 2 mortgages on an income significantly less than your family's - although I have more savings (and dip in there sometimes) and my son is grown.

If you don't like living there, you can try hard to save up a bigger down payment, plus you are likely to have some modest equity in your unit - perhaps more likely than market-rate housing if there is a downturn in the housing market. Then you can plan to move to a SFH!

wow...what a long thread to read...

well, I also live in the Boston area, in a very close urban suburb to the city. My husband & I are both teachers in public school with great salaries. Our teacher friend bought a condo in Boston with one of those perks...she won some housing "lottery" and was able to get the deal with little down, etc. She stayed there for 5-7 years (and meanwhile, got married and had 2 small kids.) When it was time to sell, the market went down, and she did not make any money on it. In the end, she felt like a renter with more paperwork. Living in a smaller space with kids is hard, period. She finally moved out and bought her parents house at a good price.

There are other "cheaper" close suburbs around Boston that give you backyards and garages. These urban suburbs have a mix of students in the classroom. I know, I am a teacher, and my son is in a diverse classroom that brings a unique experience to the learning environment.

My point is...you dont need to live in Brookline or Lexington or Weston to get "everything." Urban cities with urban classrooms also create a great learning experience. My son's classroom is a little utopia of everything.

Living in MA period...the schools are a step ahead of other states...we have always had superior standards to teach. Therefore, even a "poorer" suburb is teaching well above the standards of any school in MS or UT. In MA, we have always been at the top. Therefore, all schools in MA (now beginning across the country since we have the common core standards...sorry, school talk)

I would stop worrying about closeness to museums and what is considered a good school zipcode. Dont buy a small condo and be stuck. Youre a teacher...you should be a good parent...save and buy a small house in a cheaper, closer neighborhood, and get the small backyard if that is what you can afford. Improvise and you will be happy.

I imagine if you moved into the condo...a year or two down the line, you would feel stuck. You always have options when you rent....you can always move...not in a condo..

Hi all,

I am reviving this thread from the dead to say thank you to all who took the time to comment. You all really gave me a lot to chew on in the past two months!

We (finally!) came to a decision, after months of hemming and hawing and debating giving up our deposit and backing out. Several things happened during that time:

1. Our landlord said he would be raising the rent by at least $150 next year.
2. Our interest rate dropped to 3.75 (with no PMI)
3. The property was (mostly) completed, and it was nicer than we imagined, it seemed bigger, and we could actually start to picture ourselves there.
4. My husband's second car required several expensive repairs and left him stranded one evening.
5. My 1 year-old daughter picked up a paint chip that had fallen from our supposedly deleaded windowsill, and I randomly decided to test it for lead (just happened to have a test kit lying around). It came up positive, as did half of the windowsill. (Thankfully, I fished it out of her mouth, and so far her blood work is coming back OK.)

Now we're not "signs" people, but it was hard to ignore all of these events that kept pointing us to Brookline, despite our resistance! It was almost too much, really.

So, to spare you any more "suspense" (I'm sure you see where I'm going), we closed on the condo last week. And we feel at peace with it. Sure, I am apprehensive, as I don't really know what we're getting ourselves into in a lot of regards, but the reality is that we were going to have to move anyway, my husband's car (which we won't need in Brookline) is dangerously close to the end of its life, and with the interest rate drop, we will actually be paying LESS than our current rental (and less than any advertised 3-bedroom rental surrounding Boston - and I've been watching closely). Closing costs were around $4,000, including prepaid interest, so that's a cost we'll eat, but we'll make over that in equity in the first year. And everything is under warranty for the first year, so there should be no unforeseen expenses for that time period. When/if we go to sell, we will pay only a lawyer and a few document fees. No realtors or negotiations.

So, that's it. The update. I've thought of this forum often and have wanted many times to write, but we've been busily downsizing and are beginning to pack. Truthfully, I am a bit afraid of the smaller space, but I'm cautiously optimistic that it will be very good for us and will prevent us from becoming focused on "stuff" as opposed to experiences. I've shed a lot of the consumerism of my youth, and really do like the idea of living a simple, uncluttered, (and hopefully organized!) life. The bonus is that we've made a decent amount of money off Craigslist sales. And, yes, that went right into savings. :)

I wanted to thank all of you again for taking the time to really think through our dilemma and for helping point out considerations that had flown under our radar. This is really a lovely community (even the somewhat snarky comments were still well thought out and the added perspective was appreciated) and I will definitely be back to solicit additional advice as a homeowner!

How would you sell the place w/o realtor fees?

We just inform the town of our desire to move on, and they calculate the selling price (based on a formula that involves the median income at that time and a portion of any capital improvements). They then advertise it on their website and to their extensive mailing list of people interested in their affordable housing. The town then confirms that applicants have the appropriate income and can qualify for a mortgage, and they go from there. No realtor involvement.

Congratulations PeaG! Long may you enjoy your new place. :)

Thanks for the follow up. It's always good to hear back from the OP about how things turned out. Good luck!

Congratulations PeaG, Brookline is a nice town and great location. Be sure to come back and let us know how you like the house.

PeaG

Your attitude was refreshing on this thread. To admit financial blunders in your past and open yourself up to criticism and having a desire to improve is very commendable. Most would make excuses and you didn't. I wish you the best of luck!

Congratulations! I read this thread many times. Home ownership is important to a family and I'm glad it worked out.