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Should these items convey?

Posted by lynn420 (My Page) on
Tue, Jun 9, 09 at 22:39

Hi,

We sold our house and settle in a few weeks. We are leaving all blinds, but what about curtain rods? I have some nice ones that I would like to take. And I have some coat racks that are attached to the wall, can I take those? And finally, what about stools that we use for our island?

I asked our Realtor and he said, go ahead and take them. But someone else told me if it's attached to the wall, it should stay.

Thanks..


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Should these items convey?

What does your contract say? In general whatever is attached stays unless it's excluded in the contract, or something that is not attached may stay if it's included in the contract. I would say that it's highly unlikely the island stools would stay because they're furniture, again unless the contract specifies they stay. As for curtain rods, some areas of the country it's common for rods and all window treatments to stay, others not. Read your contract carefully on that issue. As for coat racks, to me I think they're personal furnishings and I'd take them with me as long as the contract allows it.


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RE: Should these items convey?

State laws differ, but generally the curtain rods are part of the house. Ditto for the coat racks, unless the contract says otherwise. I assume they are screwed into the studs.

The bar stools are furniture and don't stay unless they were included in the contract. They are still not part of the house. They are considered personal property, as opposed to real property. The contract can include both types.

A good REA will have all this stuff spelled out in the listing and contract. It helps to prevent misunderstandings later.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer. This is not legal advice. I have NOT stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, but I did attend a real estate law class. Your mileage may vary.


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RE: Should these items convey?

I had a similar question with the last house I sold. I think it's best to ask your agent because he/she knows what's customary in that area.

In my case, I had some decorations glued onto the wall and a keyrack screwed into the wall that I wanted to take. The agent said that as long as removing these items didn't damage the wall (I had to patch the holes on the key rack), he suggested I take them and just wait to see if the buyer said anything. He said that if the buyer made a fuss, I could just give them back. The buyer didn't say anything.

I'd say that stools and coat racks are definitely yours. Curtain rods are a bit iffy but as long as there are blinds, you're probably OK. I've never taken curtain rods because my new house didn't have the same window configuration and I wouldn't have been able to use them anyway.


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RE: Should these items convey?

Someone many years ago on this forum posted one of the best descriptions I have ever read concerning what conveys and what does not:

If you took a house and shook it upside down whatever would not fall to the ground conveys.

Now I do realize that there are regional customs, laws and contracts that may not make that statement 100% accurate, but it certainly is a good starting point.


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RE: Should these items convey?

"If you took a house and shook it upside down whatever would not fall to the ground conveys. "

My hubby would argue with you on this one, he's very attached to his plasma tv that is so attached to the wall it's not going anywhere.


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tv convey?

As I said cordovamom, it isn't 100% accurate but it is an excellent start.

I do have to wonder though, would people expect a wall mounted TV to convey? If it is just on brackets I would think the brackets would stay but the TV could go (just like draperies). If a hole was cut into the wall to flush mount it, I would argue that it does stay (just like a medicine chest).


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RE: Should these items convey?

yeah, I dunno. Customs seems so different everywhere.
When I was selling my house two sets of buyers mentioned my speakers which are hanging on the wall from brackets. one asked, the other assumed that they came with the house.
The RE agent chimed in, "well there would be wires hanging out of the wall there if you took them down."

what about artwork screwed to the wall?

in my area appliances generally come with the house. Which kinda sucks really. my 5K worth of new appliances were going with my little house, while the houses i was looking at all had 20 year old sets that probably cost about 1/3 of that new. Is a dehumidifier an appliance?


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RE: Should these items convey?

READ your contract. If it says ALL window treatments stay or are included in the purchase price then the rods stay. If it's not mentioned take them with you.
I'm a big advocate of removing from the walls and windows ANYTHING you will want in your new house BEFORE you put it up for sale. It makes life simplier all the way around.


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RE: Should these items convey?

It may need to say "do not convey" before they can be removed without liability. Check local law and custom.


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RE: Should these items convey?

We didn't specifically state in the contract that those items would stay or wouldn't stay. I will probably just leave the attached items, but I will take the stools. I should have thought about it ahead of time, we could use the rods in our new house and they were kinda expensive. Oh well...

Thanks for all the info.


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RE: Should these items convey?

It might depend on what you were moving into. When we sold, we left alot, because we knew it would not fit into our new place and the person buying the house really needed it. We even replaced the curtains on the front glass sliding door/windows as when I took them down, they were really stained bad, but we did not see the damage from the pets. We also left alot of the garden tools, as we did not need them, along with furniture. She was so glad as she had very little. I told her my stuff was 15 years old, but she said she was going to replace it gradually. It also depends on how far you moved--in our case almost 2000 miles and into a much smaller place.


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RE: Should these items convey?

I agree with whomever said to remove things before even listing the property if you want them. When I sold my home many years ago, I had an awning over my deck that I wanted to take with me. So I removed it, and all traces of it, stored it in the eaves of the garage before I listed my property. I didn't want it to become a bargaining point.


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RE: Should these items convey?

xamsx:

That's an interesting point about the wall-mounted TV. I agree that, under the general proposition that "permanently attached" items stay, one could argue that the brackets stay.

However, it seems to me that a TV is different than a medicine cabinet. The latter is typically built in as part of the house construction or renovation and is an item that traditionally stays with the house. A TV on the other hand is typically (I think) considered personal property.

So the issue becomes (as you say): What if the TV is recessed into the wall? Well, I would suggest that a savvy buyer or his/her inspector should note that, and the restoration of the wall should be part of the sale negotiation. And it's always possible that a buyer may want to mount a TV in the same recess, in which case the buyer could decide to forgive the hole in the wall in return for some other consideration.

But it's an interesting point that may be unsettled given that flat-mount recessed TVs are kind of a new thing.


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RE: Should these items convey?

That happened when my daughter sold her house last year. The buyer wanted the wall repaired after removing the flat screen. It cost quite a bit as it required sheet-rock and taping, paint, etc.

Something to consider when mounting a TV.


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RE: Should these items convey?

My son bought a foreclosure two years ago and it had a huge portion of wall that had to be repaired because the previous "owners" had a flat screen television mounted. When they left they must have just ripped the television from the wall, leaving gaping holes. Funny how they could afford a flat screen but not their mortgage. But then that's another thread.


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RE: Should these items convey?

I don't want people reading this thread to think it's okay to leave stuff behind that you don't want.

I have been very angry to find that departing owners left crappy patio furniture and rusty garden tools that now I have to dispose of. We even had to get rid of an old mismatched washer and dryer that were not supposed to convey because we had moved our new, modern, HE models cross-country to use. The worst was the HUGE plywood "bar" complete with pleather rail cushion that was left in the basement. We know why they didn't take it - because it was too heavy and bulky to move so we had the pleasure of dismantling it and hauling it to the dump. So PLEASE don't leave stuff for the new owners' "convenience" unless it's supposed to convey or otherwise approved by them to stay behind.

On the other hand, we asked one seller to please leave the wall hooks in place instead of pulling and repairing the holes. It was the kind of house where there were few specific places to hang pictures (open floor plan with lots of windows), so when we moved in, we were able to hang our pictures up as we unpacked them.

To convey or not to convey ideally should be spelled out in the listing and again in the contract, but if it's not, after the fact you can always ask your selling agent to query the buyers agent to find out what the buyers expect or want in regards to specific items. You might be lucky to find out that the buyers intended to rip out those coat hooks and curtain rods first thing. Or maybe they had plans for those.


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RE: Should these items convey?

So you're saying that everything that is left in the house has to be spelled out in the contract?

Should I put the paint cans to touch up the paint in the contract? There might be coat hooks on the wall? should I have them listed too?

a built in bar in the basement...... maybe its me, but I would have assumed that came with the house good or bad.

Were the washer and dryer specifically excluded?

if some patio furnature and garden tools makes you very angry I think you need a chill pill. I'm doubt they said.... lets stick it to the new owners with our table and chairs.

What would go through my head is.... " it costs us more to move it than its worth, we could either put it on the curb to throw out, or leave it for the new people to use until they got a set, lets be nice and leave it for them." Unless you're elderly and can't move them, I don't see how a few chairs and a table cause great distress.


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RE: Should these items convey?

I think leaving old patio furniture is stinky. If you don't want to take it, ask your realtor to find out if the buyers would like it. If they don't want it, get rid of it yourself; don't leave it for the new owners to get rid of.

When we bought our current home, it was rented. When the renters moved out - on the same day as closing, they left a huge pile of firewood - not stacked even, in the middle of the patio. We saw it on the final inspection, but didn't want to hold up closing. We didn't ask for any money to cover removing it, but boy, it did tick us off.


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RE: Should these items convey?

Geesh, all I'm saying is that people shouldn't make assumptions, that it's just not that hard to pick up the phone and ask.

Yes, you probably should ask about paint. If the buyers are planning to repaint to their own taste anyway, they may not want the responsibility of disposing of your hazardous materials.

Coat hooks, as discussed throughout the thread, probably depend on how they are mounted. I owned an ex-model home where many sets of drapes, bedspreads, throw pillows and seat cushions conveyed because they were all matched to the fancy (not to my taste however) wallpaper and borders. And yes, it was noted in the listing that these items would convey, and that the washer and dryer would not.

Please note that the bar I mentioned was NOT built-in. It was a very large piece of furniture that was probably built in the entirely unfinished basement and set on wobbly wheels that kept falling off when we tried to wheel it out the door.

You're right, I'm sure previous owners weren't intentionally trying to stick it to us. They were just thoughtless and lazy and although they may have been perfectly well-meaning, they caused us more work and trouble than we already had from a move across country with two kids and two dogs and two parrots and 18,000 pounds of personal property.
You can't just stick patio furniture on the curb for garbage pickup (at least everywhere we've lived, if it doesn't fit in the can, they don't pick it up), so we end up in a new town trying to figure out how to get rid of it and hauling it ourselves to the dump. It is the responsibility of the sellers to take away their stuff!

Now you're going to say that we should have insisted on removal during the walk-through, and that is a good answer, for the majority of people. But I will plead my case that when you're doing a crazy military move back across the country and your orders give you one weekend (detach Friday afternoon, report Monday morning) to drive your two cars and family from San Diego to Savannah, you might just have to miss your walk-through in Maryland.

We're military. We move a lot. It is stressful, exhausting, and frustrating. We haul garden tools with us so we don't have to buy new ones every time we move. We leave the last house empty and pay someone $250 to scrub it clean as a whistle when we move out, even if it's a rental. We expect the new house and yard to be clean and empty when we move in, except it's really nice when they leave a roll of toilet paper and the light bulbs in the fixtures. We expect the same ceiling fan that was installed when we viewed the house, not a black-and-chrome art-deco fan newly installed in the colonial-style living room, or at least one that doesn't clash quite so badly (but that's another thread). While unpacking 300 boxes and trying to find which one has your bath towels in it, and hauling 300 cardboard boxes and minivan-fuls of packing paper to the recycler, I think we're justified in being a little bit angry at the sellers for leaving their junk for us to dispose of. I'm merely annoyed when they leave it dirty, only because I've come to realize that my version of "clean" is so much more stringent than apparently anybody else. (I don't consider an oven "clean" when there's food stuck in it, or a shower "clean" when there's visible soap scum on the glass door and maybe some algae growing in the tracks, or a garage "clean" when there are leaves and dirt in all the corners - I'm such a clean freak.)

The washer and dryer weren't so bad. We were able to quickly locate someone who needed a free working w/d set and picked them up. But nobody wants old faded torn patio furniture or a strange-looking plywood'n'pleather "bar".


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RE: Should these items convey?

We sold our house and settle in a few weeks. We are leaving all blinds, but what about curtain rods? I have some nice ones that I would like to take. And I have some coat racks that are attached to the wall, can I take those? And finally, what about stools that we use for our island?

We didn't specifically state in the contract that those items would stay or wouldn't stay. I will probably just leave the attached items, but I will take the stools. I should have thought about it ahead of time, we could use the rods in our new house and they were kinda expensive. Oh well...

What I would do and did...

1st, are you sure you can use the old rods in the new house?
We took our more expensive rods and left the cheaper cafe's but, there were a few I was not able to reuse in the new house.

Let's face it, most people don't have the same taste, I think it's fine if you take them down now, replacing with something; this way it is there for the walk through. If they complain, you have the option to give them what they saw, chances are they are not going to remember what rods you had.

I left 1 set of curtains because they were used as doors on the laundry area.

As far as the stools, if I were to sell my current house, they would not be included because they match my kitchen table set. They were not cheap ($200ish each). If they were nothing special to me I might leave them.


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RE: Should these items convey?

From a buyers standpoint - I wouldn't expect the island stools, they obviously seem like furniture.
I would expect the curtain rods to stay (the blinds are) but probably would't make a fuss, just be a little irritated. Something like, Oh they didn't want the blinds so they left them but did take what they wanted. I hate blinds.
Coat racks - depends on where and what kind. If these are in a closet I'd be unhappy about walking in and not having something to hang my coat on in the closet. If its sort of a semi-decorative add on piece to a wall near a door I'd be less likely to think it should have stayed.


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RE: Should these items convey?

"Should I put the paint cans to touch up the paint in the contract?"

I wish I had thought to exclude this--in my house, the basement storage room had about a dozen paint cans, most of them with a cup or less left in the can.


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RE: Should these items convey?

In our new house, the owners left some things we didn't want- paint cans that we might want to "touch up" with, some other things that would be considered hazardous material, an area rug (not to my liking), old stereo equipment - not a huge deal, but now we got to get rid of this stuff.

We didn't complain about it because they still needed a couple of hours after closing to clear stuff out of the garage and they were moving out of state and you could tell they were extremely exhausted.


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RE: Should these items convey?

About 14 yrs ago I sold a custom built home. Had items specific in the listing agreement & then in the contract (i.e. custom window coverings were to stay, antique dining room chandelier etc.) It was a divorce situation and I was losing a boatload of money on the deal but had to get out. I left an immaculate house, all of the paperwork of all of the systems for the house, a video we made prior to the walls being closed in showing all of the electrical and plumbing. Two days after settlement I get a call from my realtor - the buyers were pissed because I didn't leave the TRASH CANS!!!! Regular plastic USED ones - yuck! I told the realtor they could surely afford to buy new ones. The realtor actually told me that they should had stayed.
(In NJ)


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RE: Should these items convey?

I wish I had thought to exclude this--in my house, the basement storage room had about a dozen paint cans, most of them with a cup or less left in the can.

The thing with this is that the little bit left will allow you to get more made at Depot/Lowes if you did like the colors used.

I went back & forth between leaving cans (some 1/4 to 1/2 full) but took them. I wonder if our buyer is cursing me because they can't touch up if walls got damaged moving in.


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RE: Should these items convey?

annie1956, municipal trash cans (those that are for that specific town, city, village and have the name painted on the side) if they are municipality owned (they drop them off at each house) should stay with the house. It is questionable when the home owner buys the cans from the municipality. Your personal property trash cans purchased any hardware store should not convey unless in the contract.


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RE: Should these items convey?

in our area, AB Canada it is similar, anything atached to the walls such as shelves, curtain rods, coat hooks, picture hangers etc are to stay unless specified. I take all my wooden shelves & wall mounted coat rack made by my FIL and be sure to state them in the contract. It is frustrating to buy a house expecting the shelves in storage that are attached ot the walls only to find them taken down and holes left.

when I take my shelves i repair all holes and touch up paint, the same as i do for the picture hangers. the little bit of paint it takes to cover a small hole filled with wall patch is easy and so very courteous I feel.

custom curtain rods can be excluded as stated but will they work in new home? i took one set form last place and never used so this time I am leaving all window treatments which technically includes hardware and blinds but the curtains work with this place. Even if i wanted to change the curtains on a new move in, it was nice to have some left so you can have some privacy and light filtering while getting settled.

as for island stools, they are clearly moveable and if you can use them in new home, take them. I did at one place request the island stools in the offer and the seller was more than willing to leave them.

but on that note, i agree, do not leave anything the buyers have not requested other than manuals, carpet remnants, spare tiles and touch up paint in small quantities.


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RE: Should these items convey?

We were left a huge, black iron chandelier (which was supposed to go), a set of dumb-bells with numerous weights, a large train set-up on a table. The dumbbells were a nightmare (son was a weight-lifter) as we could hardly move them. There were tables, chairs, various garden tools and much more. We called their lawyer and told them one week to remove or we throw everything out.

They sent someone to pick up the dumbbells and trains. We threw all the other stuff out except the garden tools. We had moved from an apartment in the City and used those tools for years.


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RE: Should these items convey?

xamsx - if my trash cans were municipal I would have most definately left them (and probably scrubbed them clean for the buyers) since I did leave the county recycle containers. But these were just regular Home Depot/Walmart big ole' plastic ones - not even fancy ones to boot. It's just interesting reading the thread all the "stuff" that people leave that they don't want and the stuff that you take that the buyers decide they "do" want. Jeez


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RE: Should these items convey?

I'd love to hear the conversation where someone wants to put the garbage cans in the contract.....


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RE: Should these items convey?

"I'd love to hear the conversation where someone wants to put the garbage cans in the contract....."

I once put in an offer on a home where I had written into the contract that the dog run and all dog feces would be removed by seller. That had to be a fun one to present to the seller. But my realtor told me if it was important for me to have that done, then it should be in the contract. So if garbage cans are important to the buyer, then it should be spelled out in the contract.


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RE: Should these items convey?

We had planned to take the furnace from the garage with us when we moved. Dh always has a 'project' of some sort and really likes a heated garage, but he thought most people would not have much use for it. We had it printed on our flyer, and reiterated it when we made a counteroffer so that it would be clear.

It turned out that the guy who bought our house wanted it, and offered us enough that we agreed to leave it. I think it's always a good idea to list EVERYTHING which could possibly be expected to convey - that way, there are no surprises.


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