I wouldn't worry about it. They didn't permit the extra bedroom because it would have affected the size of the septic.

As far as resale, you would just list the extra bedroom as a den/library, etc. Just list it the same way your sellers day.

Jane

Check with your board of health. If they consider the home a 5 or 6 bedroom home, they could require you to upgrade the septic.

our sellers are listing it as 5 bedrooms even though the permit is for 3 bedroom septic and the house is actually 6 bedrooms

BIG ISSUE. They cannot call it a 5 or 6 bedroom house. They can only call it a 3 bedroom house, as that is all it can legally be. It has 3 illegal bedrooms. And the price needs to be adjusted accordingly. Or they need to be the ones to upgrade the septic. Which I suspect cannot be done without switching to a different type of septic. There are a couple of builder subdivisions like that locally, and they have big problems selling because of the septics being inadequate for the home's size. The rules changed, and they didn't check before they built the houses. Even in a state with low regulations, that IS one thing that is well regulated.

If they are being tis deceptive about such an important issue, what else are they trying to hide?

Well, it's 6 rooms with closets - sounds like you don't need more than 3 BRs but I would point out the septic design, maybe get a reduction on price.

Was it originally smaller (3 BR) and did the current owners add the 2nd floor, put an addition on downstairs, whatever to add the other 3 rooms? And a bath? How many bathrooms is it (I know septic size goes by BRs not bath, but would think that permitting for adding a bath would have gotten building dept's attention)?

Possible that when they did the addition/renovation they didn't list the rooms as BRs and even when someone came out to inspect they didn't notice closets (or those were framed in later?).

Sounds like they tried to sneak it through then (if they actually have a large family, esp. if added a bath) or just wanted the extra storage and put in the closets and now agent is telling them to list the bigger rooms as BRs.

How many people are currently or have recently (if down-sizing) lived in the house?

You just had the inspection done, and the septic passed, right? So no harm done even if they had 7 people living there? Maybe they maintained it on a more aggressive schedule than they would have with 4 people and occasional guests. But it doesn't sound like anything to worry about as long as you don't add more people to your household, or try to resell it as larger than 3 BR.

I was just asking questions above b/c you may want to dig a little deeper as to how much use it got, and given that it passed inspection, maybe more importantly the character of the sellers. If they had more than 4 people living there and had done the renovations to accommodate without permitting for larger septic, there may be other things they will try to hide.

hollysprings said it more succintly!

It's not just the size of the septic that dictates the maximum number of bedrooms in the home, it's dictated by the PERC (perculation) test which determines the soil absorption rate for the leach field. If the PERC test restricted the house to a maximum of 3 bedrooms, getting a bigger septic tank won't change that.

The seller needs to reduce the price to comparables with 3 bedrooms.

Well the appraisal came back and only counted it as a 2 bedroom house plus a den. The bedrooms were just considered finished basement area. There were only four people living there currently. One adult and 3 kids.

So, we will see if he will come down to the appraisal price cause we sure are not going to bring more money to the table.

Basements are tricky for bedrooms. The windows have to be of certain size so they can be considered an exit. All bedrooms need 2 means of egress. I also know in my area that bedrooms need to have 8% natural light.

I think it's one of those things that some real estate agents do to attract more lookers - advertise it as having more bedrooms than it legally has.

Wow, until you said the additional bedrooms were in the basement I thought you are talking about a house that it close to me in central NC. The extra bedrooms for that one are located upstairs though. But it is the same type of deal, six bedrooms but the septic is only designed for 3 bedrooms.

Having lived in homes all my life that had septic tanks, I can assure you the system CANNOT support any more bedrooms than what it is designed for.

In your case it doesn't make that much difference, but when you go to sell, it might be a major problem.

Sure, it passed the dye test, but in the event more people live in the home, it can be overwhelmed quite easily.

Talk to the person who did the test. Ask him about the rating of the system, and the actual number of bedrooms, legal or not.

How much would a new, larger septic cost? Just wondering.

It depends on where you are.

When I built here in Vermont it was $2500 for the complete system. But it can cost over $25,000 in New jersey. That's what my sister in law paid when she had to have hers replaced.

7 years ago in Boston MetroWest - $2,500 for design and DEP filing fee. $16,000 for the install. $3,500 to repair lawn and reseed grass.

FWIW - it's $400 every time I pump it. Since we are a 3 person family on a 4 bedroom septic, we pump every 3 years. Most of my neighbors pump yearly.

Oh boy - this is a can 'o worms.

As hinted above, you need to educate yourself on that basement. If those bedrooms were not permitted (I'm guessing not, since they don't have the septic for them), nor do they meet code (fire egress being the most critical), then they are not bedrooms at all.
The listing agent should have NEVER listed those bedrooms. And they will not appraise, as you learned.

Nor will those fake bedrooms be insurable - as unlikely as it is, I cringe to think of kids being trapped in there in a fire and the liability involved.

I would only consider if the top of this house is adequate for you and price accordingly. The bottom is a mess.

the windows are full size lookout. I could easily open it and get out. My 8 year old son can too. There is no well though. its hard to explain. it looks just like a two story house on the back and a one story house on the front.

That is called a walk out basement here in NC.

its not really what I would call a walk out. there is no door

one of the kids bedrooms. I think this is pretty safe. They can easily open the windows.

Except, if those are double (or single) hungs, they may not actually meet egress... Look up the ACTUAL required dimensions of the OPENING of an egress window. There is a minimum sq footage, and minimum width and minimum height requirements. They must ALL be met to be considered an egress window. In my experience, most double hungs do not open wide enough to be egress windows.

Well, as far as safety goes, those windows are fine by me, but I'm not an insurance agent or inspector.

The current windows at my home are Miami windows (a kind of awning window) and are grandfathered code - so I can't replace them, ever, because Miami windows can no longer meet FL code (much less Miami-Dade impact, which is stronger, but can be mitigated if you install hurricane shutters) We love them because we can leave them open during thunderstorms and rain.

You are always grandfathered in to whatever code your house was built at. If you needed to replace, you could replace. If you were going to modify though, you'd have to modify to current code.

If the house in the OP's basement was finished without permits at some point in time, to get the permits now would require that the windows conform to code (most likely), as would it require that the septic be upgraded. That is why is is not a 5 bdrm house.

Had the original owners done everything under permits and legally, they'd find they either wouldn't have spent the money to finish the basement in the way they did (because the return wouldn't be there) or they would have realized they needed different windows to even get close to legal (and they would have had to address the septic).

Good luck OP. I do hope you report back with what the sellers decided to do with your amended offer based on the low appraisal.