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Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Year?

Posted by kellyfoota (My Page) on
Wed, Mar 30, 11 at 17:37

Hey, thanks in advance for your opinions/advice/experiences. I have a high-end home in NC that we did major, major additions/renovations to in 2007 (brilliant, I know; it was like buying "new" at the height of the market). We really thought this was going to be the home our grandkids would come to visit. (We currently have 4 children, ages 7-15) So, we really stretched. Then, 2009 rolls around and my husband was laid-off. Luckily, he got other employment, but he was essentially underemployed for the last 2 years. He got a new job in FL that is much better paying. The company gave us a lump sum for moving costs, but they will not purchase our home. Our home appraised for $850,000 in 2008 which was not the height of the market. We currently have it on the market for $795,000 with some buyer interest, but not a lot. We would need $760,000 to just break even. We plan to rent in FL, anyway until we get used to the area. Should we just rent our NC home out? Our NC neighborhood has the best elementary school and high school in the area. It is a very desirable neighborhood and we are made to feel that it would be pretty easy to get renters to pay about 70-75% of our mortgage. I get that the prices of houses are not likely to go up and may even go down, but we would have another year of paying our mortgage down and my husband gets a guaranteed bonus in December, so it would be easier to offer the house at a bargain price next spring. Also, we would have the mortgage interest write off for our tax purposes. The problem is with renting, is that we don't have family here in NC that could look over things, but we would use a property manager. Also, I am nervous as to how well renters would take care of our home. So any thoughts or experiences would be appreciated.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Since you asked for opinions...
I would not do it unless i could not sell at my bottom price and had no other option. From my experience, no matter how "nice" or "respectable" the people you rent to are, you just cannot count on them taking care of your biggest investment.
When it does come time to try to sell again, it will likely be a major effort to get the house ready for showing. Do you really want to do that long distance?
Given that you are still not going to clear your mortgage, I don't see the advantage of waiting.
I'd bite the bullet and lower the price to sell now.
best of luck to you!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

SELL NOW. No way should you rent that home out.

I speak as a former landlord. Sure - it is easy to find renters. Yep, you likely will get 10 applicants per week. The issue is finding someone who isn't going to trash the place and someone who will pay the rent and someone who will take decent care of the home/lawn. Do you exclude smokers and folks with pets? How about folks with recent foreclosures or bankrupcies? This is a crap shoot to get the right renters and not worth your trouble. Then they might decide to move 4 months into the lease period, then you start at square one getting new renters.

Renters, if you are lucky, will mow the lawn. You can forget about weed killer, fertilizer, water, mulch, weeding the beds, trimming the schrubs. You don't realize how fast weeds and shrubs grown until you go 12 months with no maintenance. Then you have a big job on your hands.

Now with relo for work, maybe you can take some tax deductions for loss you take on the home?

No way on earth would I rent out your home. No way.

Also - does not matter what it appraised for 3 years ago. What is the market value today? Then price it to sell and move on. Waiting 12 months will likely cost you more out-of-pocket versus selling now.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I've been a renter. It wasn't in my interest to keep the house up like an owner. When you're not allowed to paint the walls, you don't do touch-ups either. If you get a leak, you report it, but if it isn't urgent, the owner might not get there for a while and it gets worse. Our rent was a cute little ranch that had been built in the 1950's. It was well built, but it had some cracking in the foundation while I lived there. I was told this was probably because we didn't water the lawn. I did maintain the flower beds and trim shrubs. My dh and I weren't rough on the house, but we really able to maintain it either. If this is a higher end house, I think you've got more to lose.

The market may go down even more next year. IMO, you might be better off cutting your losses and the stress and moving forward.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I don't think that tenants are necessarily. We just rented since we will be building after selling our house. We also rented for 6 months after selling our last house. I think in some ways we were more careful than we would be with our own house since I know it doesn't belong to us.

We do have pets (cats) there and are careful with them.

All of that said, it can be difficult to be a long distance landlord particularly if there are repairs that need to be made. And a property management company will be another cost.

As to whether to sell or not I guess it depends on whether you could cover the shortfall of selling if you had to or whether you absolutely couldn't do it. We brought a very large check to closing and hated doing it but it was possible to do. You don't know that you can sell your house for more in a year. You might sell it for less in a year and would have a lot to do to get it ready for sale.

If I lived in your area and price brackets were in $50k increments then I might list for $749k or $750k (depending on how searches work on your MLS) and see what happens.

Ask your agent -- If I had to sell my house in the next 90 days what price do you think would get it sold with a high degree of probability? If you are close to the end of your listing period with your current agent, then ask more than one agent this if you are considering switching agents.

Our neighbor across the street recently closed on the sale of their house. Almost 3 years ago they listed it at about $830k. It just sold for $550k. And, we don't live in a big bubble area. We never had a huge bubble. But selling higher end houses is harder since there are much fewer buyers.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I have a SIL that owns a townhouse and she bought a house recently but couldn't sell her townhouse so she went to a property management place and it is now rented and she is getting enough to cover her payment. She was nervous about renting it out but the people signed a one year lease. It is probably easier to rent out a townhouse than a large, beautiful home like yours. I would be reluctant to rent it out; bigger places have bigger things go wrong. You may need to lower the price right away like the OP said. It is a terrible time to sell, that's for sure. Be sure you have an agent you feel is reliable and trustworthy!
Good Luck!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Are you sure you can keep the mortgage interest deduction if you are renting out the house and not living in it? I would make sure of that before deciding.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

"Are you sure you can keep the mortgage interest deduction if you are renting out the house and not living in it?"

The mortgage interest becomes an expense to offset the income from the rent.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Yes you get the interest deduction. One problem with renting it out is the tax ramifications when you sell of it not being your principle residence. That has negative tax consequences. On the other hand, all expenses related to the rental can be a business deduction. I had 2 houses on the west coast and last year moved to the east coast. I had considered keeping the newer of those 2 houses, but decided against being either a long distance landlord or just keeping it vacant for my own use. Sold them both in 3 months a year ago instead of being wishy washy about it.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Honestly; you need to get an appraisal; then take it from there. You may end up qualifying for the Obama mortgage package; or there may be a better way to do this.

As for renting; on a house at that price point; what could you charge in rent? Then you have the issues that other pointed out. My dad was a landlord all of his adult life; the last renter was irresponsible; did not report a roof leak until the ceiling was falling down. Their rent was behind & checks were bouncing.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

If you were going to have any capital gains on the house you could put your exemption at risk by renting it. I assume that you don't have any gains though.

I am a landlord and have been one for more than 10 years. Do not assume best case scenario in making this decision. Assume that even if you get a good tenant that checks out you could have bounced checks, property damage and months with no renters at all. It will likely make the property less desirable when you go to sell. Tryng to sell when tenants are in residence is problematic and if you wait until they move out you'll have an empty house and no money coming in. I vote cut your losses now. Being a landlord can be a good thing, but only if it is your intention long term. For a short term postponement of some losses it's almost always a losing strategy in my opinion.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I see the downfalls of renting it out and I appreciate everyone's feedback. We are in a bind in that we just don't have a lot of extra cash to bring to the table. So, at $760,000 being our break even point, we can't even drop the house down a search level to $750,000. Do you think dropping the house to $775,000 from $795,000 would mean anything to anybody?? Thanks again in advance for taking your time to give us advice and again, good juju is going out to all my fellow house sellers out there!!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

It may be worth it to bring money to the table. I have no advice on how people do that with no cash & I'll be interested to see what people say because I may be in that situation.

You honestly have to forget about your break even point & get an appraisal to see what the market value is. Your break even point will mean nothing at closing if it doesn't appraise for that price. Someone will need to bring money to the table; whether it's you or the buyer & chances are no one will over pay on a house that doesn't appraise.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Do you think dropping the house to $775,000 from $795,000 would mean anything to anybody??

Definitely. People search in $25K increments.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

If you don't have cash to bring to the table, you can either sign a note for the difference with the mortgage holder (if it hasn't been resold up the food chain) or take out a personal unsecured loan at a local bank for what you need.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Or the bank might negotiate a short sale.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

You might at least look into how much you can rent the place for.

Renters in $700,000+ houses are not usually the type to trash the place.

Being a long distance landlord can be a real PITA.
You will have to pay for everything that might need attention.

If you have local contacts for plumbing, HVAC, electrical, etc. you may not be in as bad a spot.

If you meet the two of previous five years test you can shelter $500,000 in profits, but the clock starts running on the two years as soon as you move out.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

if you don't have money to bring to the table at closing, how are you going to afford paying for $10k in fix up if a renter trashes the place or even bounces the rent for a couple months? Also insurance costs will be different when a rental home.

Sure you are looking at costs of bringing money to the closing table. But you need to also look at potentical costs to you of bouncing rent checks, needed to repaint or recarpet or remove items that people left in the home plus unpaid utilities and such. those costs are possible if you rent. plus all maintenance even if renters are perfect. things break and wear out. then in 1 year everything is 1 year older..roof, appliances. then when you sell more likely the inspection catches issues with them and this will cost you money.

don't bother selling unless you are going to ask a price that is realistic to market price. else you stay vacant for a long time. know thy market price.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

As to whether lowering to $775k would bring in more buyers talk to your agent and find out what the search increments are on the public MLS (that is the one where the public can search). Around here, they are in $50k increments for higher end properties so $775k would bring in the same buyers as $795k. But it may be different where you are.

If you don't have cash to bring to closing, you might be able to get a loan to do it. A short sale is a possibility but will hurt your credit if you decide to buy another house.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

The thing is & it's been said before that while sellers are not living in the house; they still pay a mortgage & taxes on it- you have to decide if you really can afford to do that or is it smarter to lower now & cut losses even if it means taking out a loan to do it


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I really appreciate everyone's help and advice. Obviously, almost everyone here is telling us to "Sell at a loss", but I spoke to a property manager today and I am really leaning towards renting our home. The only negatives we have been getting through potential buyers of our home is that the carpeting needs replaced and our master bath needs retiling. So, I feel that even if the renters are rough on things, those things need replaced anyway. I talked to someone today who said to me, "So, you are willing to go into more debt to pay a realtor?" That struck a nerve in me. Even if home prices stay stagnant, we'll be in a better position to take a loss after my husband's guaranteed bonus in December. My husband has spoken to several people in our position and they all seem happy with having their homes rented out. (we would be paying a property manager to take care of things) I was amazed to see that 24 homes in our neighborhood (granted, it is a big neighborhood) are currently being rented out. They all seem to be in good repair. I would never have dreamed that they were rentals! My husband looks at this as "money towards our rent in FL". Right now, we are paying a mortgage and his rent/expenses. We don't have a lot of money in the bank, but we do have a better monthly income than we have had in a long time. That is why renting is seeming like a good deal right now. Faulty thinking??


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I'd be scared to rent. I've heard nothing but bad stories about it. Even my brother who rented one of his houses to a good friend of the family. She didn't wreck it but she didn't take care of it like he did and when she had money problems, he didn't get the rent. And this was someone we know and love! I'd take out a loan to pay the difference. If you need $760 and you unload it even for $720, it'd be like a car loan. Bad but not the end of the world.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I agree with brickeye. High priced renters are not your typical, trashy renters. They are probably people with children who can't afford to buy a home at this time.

My husband and I are renting in a high priced area in NY while we look for a place to buy. We sold our home, last March and signed a 18month lease on a 3 bed, 3 1/2 bath Townhouse.

We looked in the area for 6 months before deciding on this place because we were looking for space and little maintenance. We are paying a high amount but love the house and area. We are both retirment age, no small children or pets. We take care of the house like it was our own. It is lovely and we wouldn't think of damaging anything without repairing it.

The owner was relocated but intends to move back in 3 years. He did not want to sell because houses were not selling quickly and he did not want to drop the price. He also bought during the bubble in 05.

We had a few maintenance problems during the past year which he took care of immediately. Actually, he asked us to call our handiman and let him fix the problem and send the bill to him. There was a stopped drain and he sent a plumber. The dryer just died and a new Samsung dryer was delievered on Saturday.

This neighborhood has a HOA for lawn, snow plowing, septic and well. I know he pays $500 a month for the HOA.

If I were in your situation, I would go for it. Don't ask low rent and assume you will attract a family with children. If you are lucky, you might get a retired couple who still hasn't figured out where they want to retire!

Good luck,
Jane


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I'm not saying to sell at a loss; I'm saying to get an appraisal so that you know whether the house is priced right; then make a decision either way


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

We were renters for many, many years; husband was a military officer with frequent moves and it never made sense to buy. While we never rented houses in your price range, we were always in higher-end neighborhoods.

We *never* trashed a house, in fact we took excellent care of our rentals. It was "our home" at the time we lived there, so why wouldn't we? Whenever we left a home, I was always proud that we had left it cleaner and in better condition than when we first moved in. One time, with a landlord's permission, I repainted the home in beautiful creamy neutrals. The property manager was so impressed when we were leaving (he had done the original walk-through) that he wanted the paint colors so he could recommend them to other landlords!

Our landlords never once had to worry about the rent being late. Of course, our high credit score was also a reassurance to them (and your property manager will probably advise what the cut-off on this should be). We also always paid a deposit equal to at least one month's rent. People who pony up several thousand dollars just to get into a house aren't generally the type to trash it.

I'm not saying that "bad apples" don't exist, but renters for higher-end homes will generally give you few to no headaches.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Well, since we are trading anecdotes, we had a 40-something tenant w/ a 95K income. Her ex-boyfriend broke a window, spray painted slurs all over walls and doors and threw bleach into the closets (which ruined carpet.) Naturally we let this tenant out of the lease because she was terrified. High income tenants may be easier in general, but they are no guarantee.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

"High income tenants may be easier in general, but they are no guarantee."

There are not a lot of guarantees in life, besides death and maybe taxes.

Notice it was NOT the tenant.

In 30+ years of renting I have only had problems with single family homes a few times.

I stay under the number of properties to make many of the landlord-tenant laws from local jurisdictions apply, and Virginia is NOT a friendly state when you fail to pay your rent.
You can be removed rather quickly if it comes to that.

I have had some long term tenants, sold a few the house they rented, and done rent with option to buy contracts a couple times.

It probably helps that many of the tenants have jobs requiring security clearances, and getting thrown out for not paying the rent is NOT a good idea if you need to maintain a clearance.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Brickeyee, what do you mean by this? "I stay under the number of properties to make many of the landlord-tenant laws from local jurisdictions apply"

You are right. They'll kick you out fast here in Virginia if you don't pay. I don't know what's going on with the house that's down the road from me. It's a really nice brick ranch house. The old lady died. In the past two years they've had a number of tenants in there and the place is absolutely wrecked now. I don't know who is managing it, who from the estate, maybe it's grown kids who live somewhere else, I don't know. But it breaks my heart when I see that place now. Of course you guys are all correct, the higher price range surely helps. This is a modest little place, probably worth $150,000.

I also took care of my places like they were my own when I was a renter. Now I know why landlords loved me so much. We're out there. But you just can't tell by how someone looks or acts or even their credit report. Whatever you decide, I hope it works out great for you and I hope you'll report back.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I forgot to add; when we decided to rent this Townhouse, the owner did a background check, credit check and we had to give first/last months rent plus one month security. We are paying high rent with no utilities at all.

Believe me, I want my security deposit returned.

Jane


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

" what do you mean by this? "I stay under the number of properties to make many of the landlord-tenant laws from local jurisdictions apply"

Some of the landlord tenant laws only apply if you have more than X units, like a large apartment building, or multiple properties.

In the few places around me that have any such rules I stay below the limit that makes them applicable.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I considered renting out my really really nice 2br 1 bath house that I had on the market to sell in the high 300K price range.

i finally decided it wasn't worth it. Like you I would only cover 75%-80% of the mortgage. Also, what made my home worth more than a lot of other 2brs in that area was the nice finishes, the upkeep the walk in and do nothing condition it was in.

if I rented it out, there is a real if not probable possiblity that the condition will suffer and I'll lose some of the major plusses that my hosue had to start with.

take a loss on the house once, it will sting, it will bother you and you'll thinka bout it for a while. rent the house at a loss, you'll curse every mortgage payment you make, every repair, etc. stinging every month. Followed by the sting of selling at a loss for probably less than you were going to origioanlly get.

my advice is figure out how much you're going to lose over the year in the rental, plus a small amount of the house going down, and consider that when selling now.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

i think we're in a similar position, we purchased a house 5 years ago (height of the market)& may now be moving (my DH is in the military)-I think we would not have a problem renting our house out, our local base is having an increase in jobs, our house is close by, w/ good schools. We have pets & I would rent to someone w/ pets, I'd like to think that anyone that rented our house would look after it.
My neighbor keeps urging us to sell it, she thinks we'll never come back, & this is a good time to sell...


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I see Brickeyee.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

..."My neighbor keeps urging us to sell it, she thinks we'll never come back, & this is a good time to sell..."

What planet is she from?

Jane


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

"What planet is she from?"

Planet military probably. Thistle5 says the base is increasing jobs and the neighborhood has good schools. Location, location, location....

Or she could just object to renters in the neighborhood.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I think its the latter.

Jane


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Does NC have a homestead property tax exemption? In other words, here in MI we only pay property taxes on half of the state equalized value of our homes.

My friend moved to FL, rented out her MI home and boom -- her MI property taxes went through the roof because she was now being taxed on the full value of her house (non-primary residence).


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Well, this thread has been very helpful. Thank you. There are certainly plusses and minuses to both options (selling our home or renting it out), nothing a great option ~ but this is the market, right? No tax deduction for mortgage interest. The second lien on our home has agreed to make a portion of our loan a personal loan, should we sell. So, we have marked our home down to 749,900 to get it into another search bracket and we will list it as a lease option in May. I would like to just wash my hands of it, but I am not willing to go much more into debt to do that. Please keep us in your prayers. All of you sellers out there are in mine!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Based upon your posts, I think moving it to the lower price bracket was a good idea. After all if it doesn't sell at that price, it was never going to sell at the price you had it listed at before. And, if it does sell, then you are out from under it. I know it is hard to do, but it gives you your best chance. Please let us know how it all turns out (I always wonder when someone has posted about a situation how it all worked out in the end). Good luck.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I hear you about not going into debt (I'm very debt-averse myself), but another way to look at it is that you already have the entire first and second mortgage debt. Selling the house will help you get rid of the first and part of the second. If you rent it out, you've still got ALL of the mortgage debt, and you have an asset that may or may not go up in value. A much bigger ball-and-chain, IMO, than a residual personal loan.

Once you get settled in Florida you can always wait a bit before buying, to pay down the remainder of the NC second and clear up your balance sheet.

Good luck, and please do come back and let us know how it turns out. Maybe you'll be lucky like kats meow!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

I would rent it out.

I had rental property in FL for 20 years and got burned 3 times. You will have to hire a professional manager who does the background check, credit check etc...your house is too nice to not do it right.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

It's actually a good time to purchase in FL. Many communities are having problems selling! I'm just south of the Daytona Beach area, but still live on the barrier island. Foreclosures are here, but it's beautiful! We are cooler in the summer than Orlando and warmer in the summer. Love it!

Hope you find what you want. Good luck!


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

If you still have the house as to renters, you could contact the schools. It could be rented out to teachers, administrators etc. Also contact your local hospital. We here in ND have got about 40 new Dr's (expanding) and they are having a hard time finding anything (due to the oil boom) as are some Pastors. Granted their income may not be up, but may a couple of new medical staff people, as/or upper level managers of established restaurants or stores. Then have a reliable management do the taking care etc. Not sure of the tax laws now, but when we rented the one and only house we had (parents) if we managed it everything was tax ded, but if we had a company do it it was not, but at the end of about 2 years, after we had them evicted and costs of thousands we still had a big capital gain tax. This was in CA so check with your tax person first.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Hey, all. I thought I would give you an update. We have had one "low ball" offer ~$675,000 since reducing our house price to $749,000. We couldn't get that low so they offered on a higher priced home that had a pool (they really wanted a pool, so I think they preferred our home, but were trying to get us down, so that they could put in a pool). However, I think things are really picking up in the neighborhood. Four high end homes have gone under contract (2 at $799, $699 and $829) in the last couple of weeks, so I am no longer worried about comps. We are going to continue through May with it just "for sale" and then we'll offer it to rent, as well, beginning in June. I am at peace with either option, as I am just excited for us to get on with our lives together in Florida. I appreciate everyone's help, support, and positive energy.


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RE: Opinion: Should We Sell our Home or Just Rent it Out for a Y

Hi, how does it go now? Did you sell you house? I am in the same situation as you are. Could you please give me the contact number of that property management company? Is it good?


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