Just curious about House 5 ... how do you know no upgrades were done in the past three years? What upgrades would be so noticible in a three year time span? Just curious.

The agent had a very detailed spec sheet filled out by the seller, and copies of the relevant building permits, because it was her listing. :-)

The last upgrade was a new roof 3 years ago, preceded by a wiring upgrade, and about 1999-2001 the baths were redone modestly (new tile and fixtures, apparently).

The kitchen cabinets are 1960s slab front birch or alder. The countertop is an out-of-production laminate with a moderate amount of wear, probably 1980s because it's mauve-ish.

It's an 1890s adobe in the perfect location. I'll overlook a bit of shabby cabinetry to get the location, hardwood floors (under that slightly worn carpeting), high ceilings, thick walls, and the elegant master bedroom "suite" you get with the classic bungalow layout that has a bath connected between two bedrooms.

Lazy,
I see this stuff everyday. Most of these homes in this condition were sold to people that really should not own a home IMO. And I think a lot of it does not come down to having money or not; I think it comes down to having self pride and esteem. Why would one want to live in squalor?

I get an email every morning with the new listings in our price range for our area. I save the ones that are comps to ours.

I am shocked to see some of the pictures posted on the MLS. So many times I hear myself saying "What were they thinking?" Well hopefully when we get ours finished and on the market, it will stand out.

"Well hopefully when we get ours finished and on the market, it will stand out."

Just remember that you are not all that likely to get back the money you spent, but given carrying costs while waiting for a sale (PITI at least) it can be worthwhile in the bigger picture is it speeds up the sale.

You can't even imagine what I'm seeing in Florida.

Jane

Florida has been well known for a long time for cheap construction.

Brickeyee, it's not the construction so much as the "updates".

Pretty amazing stuff, huh, Jane?

We're updating our current house, but it's a matter of getting rid of the negatives ... new but mid-range bath fixtures, faucets, and shower enclosure tile to replace the moldy 1980s mess. New butcher's block countertops and sink to replace the crumbling 1980s laminate ... and that's about it.

The rest is cleaning and painting and polishing. And more cleaning!

I'm going to feature the minimal upgrades in the listing as "ecologically sensitive" or something.

"it's not the construction so much as the "updates". "

Do not look very hard ten.
The construction has been pretty bad for a very long time in Florida.

No argument about that, but on the other hand in many areas of the state you can get some idea of just how bad by what happened in the hurricanes. Around here if I see "newly renovated in 2006" that's a big red flag that there was probably major hurricane damage, for example.

I see "updated" homes here in Florida all the time. The homes were built in the late 60's or early 70's and were remodeled in the late 80's or 90's.
So the listing agents say "updated" which is...technically true...since it has been updated since the 70's, but geesh. Not what the buyers are thinking "updated" means at all - they're thinking "within the past 5 years".

And I don't even want to get into the amount of un-permitted (read: un-insurable) work we've seen. Florida had to adjust the standard contract just because of this. Generally, sellers have to correct un-permitted work now, and it's not pretty.

Curious as to why repaired major hurricane damage is a big red flag. A house is not a car that can suffer permanent damage under the lovely cosmetic exterior. A repaired hurricane-damaged home can be nearly completely new construction, other than the concrete block. Other than the obvious, "why would you move to that area?"

"Around here if I see "newly renovated in 2006" that's a big red flag that there was probably major hurricane damage, for example."

it may also indicate that the structure has been brought up to the present code requirements.

Except in limited cases, a building only has to meet the code that was in effect when it was built.
After that it is 'grandfathered' for code changes.

Without grandfathering we would all be rewiring every three years, and making all sorts of structural changes every time a new code revision occurred.

When a building permit is pulled for remodeling or major repairs, the new work often must comply with the present code since the grandfathered items have been destroyed or removed.

A few localities have done things like require GFCI receptacles on all kitchen counter outlets as a condition of sale since they are a huge safety upgrade, not very expensive, and can be retrofitted without wiring changes.
California has required earthquake upgrades on sale in some locations.

Large hurricanes in Florida often manage to destroy (or severely damage) older structures) giving the local a AHJ a shot at enforcing change sin the building code when repair and restoration occur.

>Generally, sellers have to correct un-permitted work now, and it's not pretty.

Believe me, that isn't stopping anyone from doing more unpermitted work. I've tried to explain that to people many times without any success at all. I have a friend in Orlando who's currently in the midst of a huge bath/kitchen reno who adamantly insists he doesn't need permits for any of it.

But as for code compliance, I would have to say that in my area that means "pay for permits" only. Where I was renting several years ago they had the apartment replumbed under the polybutyl suit, and the inspection consisted of the inspector knocking on the door and asking me, "Well, what do you think? If you're happy, I'm happy."

Oh, I forgot to say that Conchita is a neighbor of mine and I know just what she means. If some place was completely redone in 2006 it usually means around here that it blew out completely in the hurricanes of 2004 and 2005, and may well have been put back exactly as it was before. Code around here was nearly non-existent for a long time--I've seen houses with particle board walls--but if you go look at something and it still has the miserable 80s upgrades, that generally means it made it through the storms without needing big repairs.

I'm waiting for the code guy to show up as I type this now...St Pete anyway, seems to be tough on the DIY folks more than licensed contractors, we think because they are wary of folks doing shoddy work to flip a house after watching too much HGTV. Of course, we're doing good work because we plan to live here forever, so it's annoying to us.

writersblock - I don't know if you need permits as long as you're not moving any plumbing, gas, electrical. I think you can completely replace cabinets, sinks, toilet, shower/bath, flooring, lighting fixtures, appliances, not sure about walls, ceiling and HVAC. Definitely not windows.
But we keep a printout from the city that shows what doesn't need to be permitted so we can show anybody who asks (including some of the inspectors) such as stucco on concrete block (external stucco on any other kind of wall has to be permitted).

I don't know if you need permits as long as you're not moving any plumbing, gas, electrical

Yes, I realize this varies. In this county you technically need a permit for everything. It's about a hundred bucks to change out your water heater for a new one, for instance. (They have few other revenue sources.) They used to be pretty slack about it, but now with the huge drop in tax revenue they have people out driving around looking for signs of unpermitted work (like skips, for example), which is a very new thing hereabouts.

BTW, my Orlando friends are adding a bathroom, among other things, so they definitely don't have any wiggle room on needing permits.

"Generally, sellers have to correct un-permitted work now, and it's not pretty. "

Not all localities are so money grubbing as to make much of an issue of minor unpermitted work, especially if it is done by the homeowner.

Many places do not even revoke COs at sale and then use it as an excuse to send the AHJ in.