While not exceedingly common, post settlement leases for a few days are very helpful when Sellers need the money out of what they are selling in order to go to closing on what they are buying. Sometimes sellers rent back for several months while a home they are building is being completed.
Your description of your particular sellers would make me nervous, though. Will you be doing a pre-settlement walkthrough? I would be very careful about what I signed off on and even insert language to the effect of "unable to observe blah blah blah due to sellers things still being in the property and blocking access."

I don't understand why everyone seems to be having a bovine moment over this.

Do all you people carry two morgtages and get bridge loans when you move? Or is everyone wealthy enough to not need the equity from their house when they move? (Or just not have any equity...) Do you load all your stuff in a truck in the morning, close and then unload in the evening?

How do people move without some holdovers?

This is common in the midwest, and I've seen it done out west.

Sparksals: I already had an inspection done and the seller agreed in the contract to fix the problems found, although he hasn't done the repairs yet..... we did use a realtor, but as i said before, the listing agent lives in and is part owner of the house...... we did look at the contract the best we could and i guess we depended too much on our real estate attorney to catch anything we didn't....
To all:
this is what the contract says "vacant possession shall not be a condition of closing of title and the seller shall have 5 days within which to remove from the premises after closing, upon condition that seller deposit with his attorney, in escrow, the sum of $2500.00 for the faithful performance of his obligation to remove within such 5 day period after closing, and the seller shall pay to the purchaser the sum of $150.00 per day for each day seller remains in possession after such 5 day period for use and occupancy. Adjustments shall be computed to the day before possession, including interest on purchaser's mortgage. Upon delivery of possession, premises shall be vacant and broom clean. This paragraph shall survive delivery of the deed. No landlord-tenant relationship is hereby created. The attorney for the seller is hereby authorized to release the sum held in escrow to the seller after three business days after delivery of possession to the purchaser, unless notice of a claim is given to sellers attorney prior to that time"........... so what do you all think.... i know we probably did a stupid thing by not catching it but now i have to figure out what to do or maybe i just have to hope for the best.... if i try to not go through the deal at all (break contract and not buy house) i will be out a LOT of money and I really do want the house... what does that part about the mortgage interest mean?
Annainpa: the contract says we will "have access to the premises within 48 hours prior to the closing or taking possession"
Another question: if we cannot negotiate a contract change, do we have a right to also occupy the house during those 5 days that the seller do? just to keep an eye on things? we will own the house right?
Thanks all for your help...carol

It's not common at all where I'm from. Nor would I even entertain the idea of previous owners staying in my house past the closing date. To many things can happen that can go wrong. The sellers have plenty of time to figure out what they are going to do when they sell. We have always taken possesion of our houses at closing time. The previous owners have been out and the house cleaned so we could do a final walk through the morning of the closing. NancyLouise

A realtor who is a part owner in the house has no interest whatsoever in your best interest. In fact, it seems to me to be a conflict of interest.

I have known people who had brief rent-backs with no problem, but only once have I heard of a rent back that did not involve a payment starting on the first day. (That was in the hottest days of the market here two years ago, when bidding wars and concessions were very common--a friend got a 10-day free rent back).

Since you have a signed contract that is presumably out of attorney review (and shame on your lawyer for not discussing this with you!), then the only way you can get ride of this clause is to make it a condition of changing anything the seller wants changed.

In the few cases I know of, there was no problem, but there is a risk here.

I don't think we can "rescue" our OP from a signed contract...unless the seller initiates a change in the contract or will agree to one.

This is a paragraph that should have been struck from the contract by the buyer's realtor and for sure by the buyer's attorney. (I wonder if this *is* a REAL ESTATE attorney.)

It's bad practice, IMO, and regardless of what a contract says about charging rent, one still has to COLLECT it, which seems "iffy" given the description of the sellers. Same with the repairs. It's almost always a bad idea to have the seller do repairs; better to get cash back or money off the price and do them yourself.

Ah! But if the repairs are not completed before closing...do we see an out here?

Who wrote this contract? Either your agent or attorney should have gone over the contract with you line by line and explained everything to you before you signed it. Why the heck even have an attorney if they are not going to advise you? I would complain to the agent's broker that your agent is not protecting your interests.

I live in NE Ohio...staying in your home after closing is very typical in my area. We had 30 days to move out after closing and the only reason we got the keys to our new home on the day of closing is that the owners had already moved out and the house was vacant. We had a lawyer write up our contract and he asked how 30 days sounded to us. What happens if financing would fall through at the last minute?

"regardless of what a contract says about charging rent, one still has to COLLECT it,"

It is collected at the settlement table, or held in escrow by the settlement agent.
The funds are already collected.
It is relatively common around Northern Virginia on move up houses.

Unless Carol9999 used a buyer's agent she didn't have an agent representing her. Going into a real estate office and telling a realtor you want to buy a house does not make that agent your's. Without a buyer's agreement and paying the commission that goes with it, makes the agent you're working with the seller's agent, and as long as they stay within the law, their obligation is to the seller.

Their attorney should have explained some of the provisions of the contract to the buyers, especially if this was their first time. Ultimately, though, you should never sign a contract without understanding what you're signing. If you don't understand something, ask for an explanation. That's why you're paying your attorney.

That said, on Long Island this isn't uncommon. You're worrying a lot more than you need.

Good luck,

Kevin

Yeah, Kevin, it sounds like carol9999 used the seller's realtor but not her buyer's realtor too. She should have had a realtor of her own to work with the seller's realtor. And it also sounds like her real estate attorney let her down, too.

The last home I bought in SC, we closed on the house we were selling at 9:00am and drove to the new town we were moving to and closed on the house we were buying at 11:30am. We actually drove the moving truck to the attorney's office as we had to be out of the house we sold before closing for final walk through and the owners of the house we were buying had to be out by that morning so we could do a final walk through there.
I would never let anyone stay in the house after closing, once it's mine I want to start moving in!

I repeat: If the seller promised *in the contract* that he would mak repairs to X, Y and Z and he has not made the repairs by the closing day...isn't the contract void? We can only hope the contract says the repairs must be made "to the buyer's satisfaction" or similar. Otherwise nailing a board over a hole in a door would suffice.

I don't understand the OP's statement that the "on or about" date is Jan. 15, and that the seller wants end of January while buyer wants early February. Is there no closing date set? When will it be set? How far does "on or about" stretch?

To those who ask if people really move out of one house, have the closing, and close on another home and move into it in the same day: Yes. Or people stay overnight in a hotel and furnishings sit on a truck overnight. This is where a substantial escrow comes in -- if the buyer defaults, the escrow covers the expenses.

On or about is usually within 30 days. Since any of the parties could delay it last minute, many sellers don't move out ahead of closing here.

I just purchased a house where I close o the 22nd and they give possession on the 29th.No rent no nothing for that week. Whats the big deal?

"We actually drove the moving truck..."

You only needed one?
The last time I moved it took three 50 foot trucks and a crew of 12 men to move everything in a very long 16 hour day.

In Tucson, all contracts seemed to be "possession at close". In Ohio, where were are now, it's common to have possession 15 to 30 days after close.

Through our realtor (buyer's agent), we heard that the seller of our house there wanted to stay for several days after closing. We wanted to start working on the house on the day we closed.

We immediately went to an attorney. Our contract had a closing date and stated that time was of the essence, so she didn't have any "room" for negotation, since we didn't want to negotiate. We wrote a letter, quoted the attorney (who said that would be our best first option but if it wasn't effective, she'd be happy to get more involved), and sent the letter registered mail and hand delivered one.

The seller was *not* happy with us but she moved on closing day. They were still moving out while we were starting painting, but we got in the day we wanted to.

I don't think she *ever* intended to get out on closing--she had arranged to have her phone number maintained at both homes for a week, made arrangements for movers to come back on a subsequent day, etc. (When they came back, they couldn't get in--some of her stuff was still in the house, but we'd already had the locks changed. They had to wait for us to get there to get her stuff out.) And then had to come back some time later to get the microwave, which they'd forgotten and couldn't get into the house and get.

The OP is stuck with the contract--but I'd be careful myself about such an agreement.

brickeye -- You have entirely too much STUFF! LOL

The estimators failed to notice how many *closets* we had in a prior house. They underestimated what was in the living space, too, so we ended up with three trucks and a long day even though we were only moving 15 miles.

Uh yeah, we were able to "drive the moving truck to the attorneys", we used only one 26' uhaul truck. Some of our little things like Christmas decorations etc were moved to a storage facility earlier. And then we didn't move any appliances, just furniture from a tiny 1200 sq. foot house!
When we got to the new house we hired day laborers to uppack us and we were done within 5 hours.
When we moved we had only been married 15 years, so we didn't have a life time of accumulations to move either!

I've been very fortunate myself, but I am an avid fan of Robert Bruss (he writes a Real Estate column carried in many newspapers nationwide) and this issue comes up periodically.
After reading many awful stories, I would be very, very worried if I were in your situation. You have zero leverage if these people leave the house damaged or completely trashed 5 days after closing. And it sounds like they have the potential to do so.
They may promise to come back and make amends, but it is unlikely. Verbal promises mean nothing.
If you do your walk-through after closing, you may find that all the nice appliances have been switched out for garage sale discards, hanging chandeliers have been switched out with bare light bulbs, nice ceiling fans have been replaced with nothing or cheapo ones, large ugly homemade furniture pieces left behind for you to get rid of, you get the idea. Been there myself (I was on the other coast at closing and trusted my agent to do the walk-through, and she didn't notice that the washer & dryer didn't even match colors?)
Be careful!
Lisa A.

Carol, I wonder if your attorney could negotiate a dry closing. My husband and I did this once when the seller could not deliver possession at closing. We went to the closing office on a Friday morning, signed all the paperwork but funds were not transferred until we gave the all-clear signal. This gave the seller a long weekend (the closing went through on Tuesday morning) to move out and for us to do a walk-through. Once everything met with our approval, the funds were transferred and we were given the keys.

I've never heard the term "dry-closing," but a friend of mine who lives in Georgia had just such a closing. Her contract let the seller stay in the house for 7 days after closing. The seller stayed most of that time and left the house in great condition. I guess the fact that she did not have the money until she moved out was motivation! I've only purchased on house (in NY) and had never heard of this. Most of the people I know close on the house they are selling and then go straight to the closing on the house they are purchasing with their belongings in a moving truck!

I can't imagine scheduling a closing on a house I'm selling and a closing on a house I'm buying for the same day. What if problems arise with the first transaction?

We recently sold a house in SoCal and the actual close date was 5 days past when it was supposed to be, because the buyer's agent couldn't get the papers in correctly and on time. We actually put the house back on the market because of the agent's foolishness. I think that made him get his act together - the idea that he might lose a $19k commission.

This was worrying to me as we wanted to know the sale was actually going through, but didn't present any logistical problems as we were moving out of state to a rental apartment. We rented until we found a house to buy. Renting is a pain but less stressful than having two mortgages to pay if something goes wrong.

The house we just bought had a previous sale fall through the day before escrow closed. The buyer found out he'd been laid off, he hadn't sold his other house, so he backed out of buying this house. Bad fortune for him became good fortune for us. The house went back on the market and we snatched it up.

A holdover is standard in my area (Alabama). Sellers don't want to be loaded in a moving truck just hoping that two closings that day go smoothly. That would make me more nervous than having a holdover.

Knowing that a holdover was standard around here, for the last house I bought I added a clause in the contract. The vacate date was a part of the counter of the seller. I countered that with my provision of her move-out date: a statement that the house would be in the same condition with the same fixtures and working appliances as at the time of walk-through, that both of us would maintain insurance (property and liability) during the crossover period, and a larger escrow. Everything went fine.

Carol, You've received all sorts of advice from the other posters so I'll avoid adding to the fray. However, I'm just going to mention that when your closing does happen, it's in your best interests to read what you are signing. Know the numbers especially. I've had 2 closings where the closing docs didn't agree with the earlier docs and I've caught money mistakes that would have been against me otherwise. The differences resulted from title company errors and not fraud type behavior. I guess I view it as I'd better know what I am signing. I'm the one liable. Hope this all works out for you.

thanks all.... i do feel i dropped the ball with the contract and believe me i learned my lesson.... anyway... i called another lawyer and he said that what i signed is standard where we are (he said 9 out of 10 contracts are written that way).... we still have to speak with our lawyer today to see what he says and what we should do....

To c9pilot: we did have written in contract that we want all the very expensive viking appliances left in the house as well as the washer and dryer.... we are allowed a walkthru of the house within 48 hours of closing as well as another walkthru before he actually leaves after closing.

To Sully6: I like the idea of a dry closing although i never heard of it.... i will bring it up to the lawyer ...thanks

for those who asked, yes, some people do move out and into a hotel until their new house is ready for occupancy. my husband and I sold our house in California 3-1/2 years ago and our new house, which was new construction, was supposed to close on the same day as the house we were selling. but the new home purchase didn't get recorded in the county clerk's office that day so it wasn't "official" and we weren't allowed to move to the new house due to insurance requirements by the builder selling the house.

We had already had all of our stuff picked up by a moving company with the agreement that they would store it on the truck if necessary.

Since the closings weren't concurrent, as planned, we were homeless for 24 hours. (Struck us as funny to be homeless after selling expensive Cali real estate and buying even more expensive Cali real estate!) We took our three dogs, two cats and suitcases to my in-laws house and spent the night there and then, the next day, the closing was recorded on the new house and we were officially homeowners again.

So, that is how some people do it but if I could have planned ahead and asked for a few days of occupancy, with rent, in the old house, I would have done it. My mom, who is a realtor, said that is common in Kentucky. But since we were in California at the time, it wasn't a common practice so no one mentioned it as we drew up the contract for the buyers. In retrospect, we could have done it because the market was so hot at that time in 2003 that we had three offers within 24 hours of listing the house and they were all over our asking price. We could have gotten whatever we wanted out of the buyers!

Carol, I hope it all works out for you. I think what you signed is standard for some areas and non-standard for others, just as my husband and I learned in our sale.

Good luck!

Carol,
It helps a lot that your contract specifies some of these things, but the point I was trying to make is that once you have closed and they have your money, you lose a lot of leverage.
While your contract may say that it includes the Viking range, 6 days after you close, the day after they move out, you walk through the house and there is an Amana range where the Viking used to be two days ago. Seems the Viking left with the moving truck. Now I think you're stuck with small claims court to get it back, although there may be other options.
On the other hand, anybody who rents back a home could be in this situation, and it turns into a renter-tenant scenario. Not sure, this is the first time I've rented back to the seller, but they are not the type to have troubles with (the older folks who owned the house for 34 years).
Good luck!
Lisa A.

c9 -- that's why when we rented back the home for two months after we sold one of our previous homes the buyer asked for a very large deposit in escrow -- if we messed up the house or took anything that was supposed to stay with the house, the buyers had recourse to keep some of our deposit. Lucky for both parties, nothing was amiss and we had our deposit back within 10 days of vacating the premises. I'd suggest that anyone that has to rent back to the sellers even if only for a few days or weeks, keeps back some of the funds as a deposit against sellers taking off with something they're not supposed to or damaging the property.

So there are regional customs in real estate, as in many things. I am sure that many people would not have the wherewithal to move before the close.And why not cooperate with a seller to give them a day or two to move unless you have an overriding reason for immed. possession (other than it is now *your* property and you want them out). Of course if the sellers seem shady or likely to be destructive, you have to use common sense. I was the victim of a buyer who kept putting off the closing several times so that my plans could not be finalized: I lost the hoped-for transitional housing, my daughter could not change schools until we moved, the actual sale was in doubt so I could not commit myself financially elsewhere etc. If they had not offered me such a good price I wuld have cancelled the deal. So the buyer's agent actually proposed the lease-back & I stayed in the home another two weeksafter it finally closed. The buyer then tried to flip the property and put it back on the market during the lease-back period, started showing the property (actually bringing people in, messing with my belongings, locking the pets outside, without notice to me!) before I had vacated!

Good advice, cordovamom. I'll remember that one.

raee: other than it is now *your* property and you want them out).
====

For me, that is more than a valid reason. There are too many insurance/liability issues to toy with something like that. If it's my property, then I dictate who is there and who is not.

"If it's my property, then I dictate who is there and who is not."

If YOU signed a piece of paper, a contract, with someone that says they can be there for a specified period of time, then YOU HAVE decided that they can be there. You can't just change your mind.

Part of the exchange of goods, services and $ involved in the property transaction under discussion is the right of the PO's to occupy the premises for that period of time. They might have asked for more $, or not signed the deal at all, if that wasn't a part of it.

I don't see why so many posters are so dead set against this. There is $2500 held in escrow, which is far higher than the security deposit most landlords would hold. The buyer has a right of inspection.

I do think that the buyer's lawyer was remiss in not pointing out this clause to them, but they were also remiss in not reading the contract BEFORE they signed.

Sparksals wrote: "For me, that is more than a valid reason. There are too many insurance/liability issues to toy with something like that. If it's my property, then I dictate who is there and who is not. "

There really aren't any insurance issues. It's likely the prior owners still carry insurance as does the purchaser. It's no more risky than owning a house and renting it out. Is there a little added risk? Yes, but nothing that's not contemplated by your insurance.

Kevin

sharonsd:
"If it's my property, then I dictate who is there and who is not."
If YOU signed a piece of paper, a contract, with someone that says they can be there for a specified period of time, then YOU HAVE decided that they can be there. You can't just change your mind.
==========

Sorry it wasn't clear. I wouldn't allow that contingency in my home purchase contract. If it was in an area where this type of arrangement is common, I would be sure to specify that the closing date is possession date and that the seller must be out by closing. If they refuse, I won't purchase the house. I do not want any liability issues or hassles.

In addition, a vacant walk through prior to closing would be a condition as well, much like someone cited above.

Possession is often a deal breaker in real estate deals. We once put in an offer on a house, we wanted to close in 30 days and possession 14 days after closing. We thought we were being nice in allowing them to stay through the holidays. They appreciated that, but asked for 30 days past closing. We were in a position where we had to be out of our house before that and couldn't accept their terms, so we didn't accept their counter offer. All but one of our homes were vacant when we purchased them, so possession wasn't an issue. The one home we purchased that was occupied, we asked for possession at closing, they countered with possession 10 days after closing, we loved the house so we accepted. They were a very lovely older couple, the original owners that were retiring and downsizing. On possession we walked in to an immaculate home and a welcoming note and bottle of wine for us and plate of fresh baked cookies for the kiddies. Being nice to them and allowing them 10 days after closing paid off in other ways, they asked us if we wanted their grill, pool table, riding lawn mower etc. All things that they threw in after closing for no cost.

Cordovamom, that is such a beautiful story. There are nice sellers too.

It is a lovely contrast to the paranoia of many other posters on this topic.

Carol,

As I stated earlier, I'm on Long Island, too. I haven't sold or bought a house since 1988, until now. I've accepted an offer on our house on Long Island (got lucky, no realtor, and the first person that saw the house), and buyer is signing contract today. My attorney prepared the contract, and here's what's in mine:

32. The premises shall be delivered vacant and broom clean as of the time of closing, or within fice (5) days thereof. All adjustments at the closing shall be made as of the date the purchasers are to take possession. If the premisee is not delivered vacant and broom clean as the time of closing, the amount of $2,500.00 shall be deposited in escrow with the attorney for the seller to assure possession. If possession is not so delivered, seller shall pay $250.00 per day thereafter as liquidated damages and may be evicted as vendor in possession without consent of the vendee. The seller further agrees to pay for any damage during said period and for any reasonable attorney fee required for eviction proceedings.

I recall a similar clause in the contract when I purchased my prior homes. There was never any objection to this clause by any of the parties in any of the contracts, including this latest contract. I wouldn't worry about it.

On a personal note, we are planning on staying a couple of days in all likelihood and the purchaser's aware of the fact. We will also be leaving him a nice thank you gift.

Kevin

Having been a buyer in Ohio, where all three of the contracts I was involved in allowed the sellers up to 30 days after closing and expected only $500 in earnest money, I was flabbergasted to find that, as a recent seller in Kentucky, I needed to be out no later than closing. I was very concerned that I'd be stuck with all my stuff in boxes, an empty house to show in a slow season, and a looming closing date on my new property. I felt that as a seller I had NO protection whatsoever. Like the $500 earnest money would even begin to cover the expenses incurred if we did not close???

Great timing. I had never heard of such a thing until we moved to Portland. In Chicago, once you close, it's yours- seller is outta there (walk through is the day of or day b4 closing). Here in OR we have been told it's "nice" and customary to let the seller have 1-3 days after closing. Uh, not sure why I need to be nice and let them live in my house. I find it all very strange. I like the idea of saying if you stay put X amount in escrow to cover me. And of course the timing would have to be convenient. This is a hard learning experience but hopefully it all works out for you. I'd be really nice to the seller and stop by every day to make sure he's not having a big blow out b4 he leaves!

We live on Long Island too and have bought and sold 2 houses in the past 5 years, all contracts had a similar clause in it (although a larger amt of $$ in escrow) and never was the clause exercised. We got and gave possession on day of closing it's really just an in case. The couple buying our home had to stay in their home 24 hrs to have time to close on our house and get out.

Hope for the best since it's already been signed but next time make sure to get a better attorney who goes through it all with you!!! My 1st lawyer really babied us and I totally appreicate it-NO SURPRISES!

Good Luck

Amy

emb, I'm in Oregon too, and the contracts I've seen usually call for possession at 5:00 pm on the day of closing.

Hmm,I can see I've messed up much worse than Carol.I browse through this forum occasionally and saw this posting and thought I might need to read it.I live in south Ga and recently we've offered a contract to a seller,the house was for sale by the owner.We were preapproved in advance.I used no real estate lawyer,only my bank lady has helped me.To make a long story shorter I made a verbal offer and only after she accepted it did we do a contract and it was a very short contract stating what we offered for the house,termite inspection and or treatment,etc,a few more things added but I didn't think to say she had a time frame to be out of the premises after closing.My banker(mortage lady) had said I could make my own contract and I just used a copy of a contract agreement to go by.Of course the banker lady went over my contract and said it was fine.I guess she didn't catch it either.Anyway all this rides on the VA approving the loan to and I haven't heard yet though it has been appraised nor did I offer any money to the seller as earnest money(I think thats what it referred to here)We're purchasing it as a "AS is"home so intend to start working on it right after closing.I do know the lady can't leave until she has her money from the sell.I guess if she doesn't leave in the next day or two after closing she will have to help work! Debbie

Hi all: We have found out that the sellers will leave either the day of or day after closing, but it is only verbal and not rewritten in the contract. i hope and expect everything to go ok...i dont think these people are horrible people, just they are slobs..... BUT i have learned a lot here and i appreciate all who gave their advice... i learned the importance of all the players involved in the real estate transaction... we used a lawyer for cheap through my husbands job benefits, where maybe we should have gotten recommendations from friends, etc.... also i would have gone through a real estate that was not involved and living at the property (although i didnt know this at first)......... wish me luck ( we are closing on feb 7th) and i also need luck because now i am trying to sell my house now (will be carrying two HUGE mortgages until we do).... and good luck to all of you out there too with your homes....carol

Good luck, Carol. I'm sure everything will be OK. As you've learned, this is a common clause on Long Island. Even though it's five days, very few people stay that long.

BTW, where on Long Island did you buy and where are you moving from?

Kevin

Yes, good luck, Carol! I hope your worries are all unfounded. Let us know how it went after you are all moved in.

Thanks.... i am moving from Massapequa Park (great place to live) to Miller Place, which is about 45 minutes further out on Long Island, but we need a bigger house because i am having my 4th (surprise!) child in march and we only have a three bedroom house here, so we wanted something with 5 bedrooms and more land....... we actually had the house we are living in totally paid off so it pains me to take out another mortgage again (and a big one at that), but the house in miller place is much bigger and has a lot more land.....hopefully we made a decent choice..... eventually, i would like to move off of long island, but until my husband retires, we can't do that.... although if my kids are here, i probably would never move away from them..... we will see what the future brings.... thanks for the luck and good wishes...i will let you know how things go....carol

Hi, Carol.

I don't know how old your kids are, but my wife's been a library teacher in Massapequa Schools for the last 34 years, in Unqua, McKenna, and for the last 15 years or so in Berner Middle School. If your kids have been in Berner during that time, they've had my wife as she teaches all the kids. I also lived in the Park (Mayflower Ave) until my parents moved to Nassau Shores in 1961, where my Mom still lives. My wife grew up in Harbor Green. Small world.

Four kids! God bless you. I'm the oldest of seven. Had my share of big families so we only had one, he'll be 26 in July and graduates med school in May. That's why we sold the house and are moving to FL. My wife's parents are already there and DS is not coming back to the Island.

Good luck in Miller Place. Big difference from the Park. It's a beautiful part of Suffolk.

Kevin

Kevin: my oldest is in berner now (7th grade) and my two others are in east lake elementary..... it is a small world....well, thanks for your good wishes and good luck to you with your move...carol

Hi, Carol.

That's my wife's school. She loves the seventh graders. Your oldest has definitely seen my wife. Without posting last names here, there are two Library Teachers in Berner. My wife is Mrs. "L".

Thanks for your good wishes, too. Let us know how the purchase works out.

Kevin