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| I was in contact with this seller agent to purchase a home. I viewed the property a month ago and called the agent on a Sunday to let her know I am making an offer without an agent representing me and she informed me the property is under contract but a signed purchase and sale was not returned by the seller and 1 bank addedum still needed to be signed by the buyer. I asked if I can present an offer and she gave me a hard time. I reminded her that although they had verbal commitment to the first buyer and asked if I could present an offer. She said she would call monday morning and call me back. I did not get a call until 6 or 7pm after (close of business) from her stating they are not excepting any offer. Wouldnt you think it would be in her client best interest to see the offer? and plus her commission could have been 6 % instead of 3%. This makes no sense? Can I sue for the property? Is she only liable for potential ethic violation or can sue to go back to multiple bidding? thanks |
Follow-Up Postings:
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| You can report her to the local RE Commision. What she did is a violation. She's supposed to present all offers. Sounds as though she was saving the property for the original buyers. They could be friends. There are lots of dirty tricks going on like that in the RE world. I, personally know of situations like that. The sellers would get a lower offer from the first buyers, and the agent would lie to the second ones that it was higher and that sellers are not accepting any more offers. This usually happens when the agent knows the buyers, or knows she will get future commissions from them. It's sort of like greasing the palm ;) Unfortunately, not much can be done,other than a quick phone call to her board. I would do it now. Of course, I'd be mean and find out from the town records as to who owns the house and would call the owners myself...in addition to reporting her to the board. |
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| Sellers can instruct their agents not to accept any additional offers. There would be no violations of the COE. |
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| I'm not clear, did you sign a written offer? If not, and the agent isn't working for you I don't see that they necessarily did anything wrong. |
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| How do you know she didnt present your offer? All she said was "the sellers are not accepting ANY offer". To me that says both offers were presented and they don't want either one of them. |
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| The first buyer did not have a signed p&s and the seller (REo) did not state they were not taking any offers until after I stated to the agent that its a live and active property. It did not go under agreement with a sale pending until after a signed p & s was returned on Monday which is what the agent did was to wait until close of business. This is unethical to the seller but because I was not represent, her friend probably got the property. |
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| Honestly? I disagree with the agents in this thread and think there was something going on. It never, ever hurts to get another offer. I question why a seller would EVER not accept another offer. They can always say "no" or not respond to additional offers. It is not in a seller's best interest to not gather as many offers as possible. Next time, get a "buyer's agent" to present the offer (one that just presents the offer) and you are under no obligation to pay directly to put in a signed offer. And I would absolutely report this as a violation. |
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| Some of you agents are really somethin. Always giving another agent the benefit of the doubt. Well, there are a lot of rotten apples, not just a few, spoiling the bunch. It never hurts to get as many offers as possible: I think I smell a big fat rat! Use an attorney for the paperwork if it should look like it may become a deal. Sorry, ya'll, I hate bloodsuckers, and connivers. |
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| Notto, I'm willing to bet you're still green behind the ears. There is obviously alot missing with this story which is why most agents on here are questioning it. Things don't add up. How many times has a buyer called you on a house that was sold and they say, "there is still a for sale sign on it". The "sold" sign doesnt go on the house until you have at least a mortgage committment or signed contract. In my area, that can take months.What the OP feels doesnt necessarily mean thats whats going on. THe property is REO, there is no seller to call. There is more to this story that seasoned agents are seeing. |
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| Linda117, I'm willing to bet that you are a New Yawker ;) Pardon me, I skipped the REO part. |
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| NOTTO, I am a NEW YAWKA... glad you can read, its only been posted here about four billion times. My point stands the same, there is no proof that anything unethical or illegal was done. Gotta have all your facts before you tell someone to go and report someone. |
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| "Pardon me, I skipped the REO part" Obviously that's not the only part you missed. "That is the agent's duty, isn't it?" The agents duty is to follow the sellers legal and ethical instructions. You are obviously new in the RE biz. |
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- Posted by dreamgarden (My Page) on Fri, Jan 9, 09 at 15:19
| We went to an open house and made an appointment to look at it a second time. The agent knew virtually nothing about the place and kept saying she would have to ask the owner and get back with us. She asked who our buyer's agent was. We said we were using a real estate attorney. Then she tried to get us to sign something saying that she would be providing us with a buyer's agent anyway, even though we told her we didn't need (or want) one. She had her husband along for security and he was a sourpuss as well. When we first came into the house and said hello, he turned his back to us and pretended he didn't hear. The house was nice but the agent was so horrible to deal with that we decided to send a letter to the owner and make an offer to him directly. He accepted our offer but the deal fell through. We watched the house sit for 6 months. It finally sold but through a different realty co. It went for less than what we had offered to pay him the second time. I guess the owner finally woke up and realized with an agent like this, he was better off keeping the house, getting someone else or going FSBO! If your getting to much disrespect from an agent, I don't see anything wrong with going over their head and contacting the owner. I'm sure most owners would love to hear feedback about their hired representatives. |
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| "If your getting to much disrespect from an agent, I don't see anything wrong with going over their head and contacting the owner. I'm sure most owners would love to hear feedback about their hired representatives." That's what I would do, contact the seller and make him/her aware of it. |
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| As to the home owners not wanting any more offers - I can see that IF the people who had already submitted an offer had stellar credit, it was a good offer - I'm sorry but the original poster sort of waltzed in at the last second - did he have good credit? Did he offer enough over the other offer to make it worthwhile risking a good solid deal? As a seller who just wants it over I'm going to take a decent offer an run unless the other offer is for a lot more. BUT I do expect my realtor to at least tell me - "hey someone without a realtor just said they want to submit an offer" If it went down as the OP said I don't think that's right |
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| "If it went down as the OP said I don't think that's right" I agree. |
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| Without knowing the location of this mess there is no way to determine what (if anything) happened. Unlike in NY city (and maybe the whole state) lawyers are NOT necessarily involved in writing RE purchase contracts. In many places they are draw up by the purchaser and their agent using standard forms (some from local RE boards, others are state supplied). I have avoided purchasing in places that use lawyers to negotiate from the start (and so does my wife who is an attorney). It is not worth the hassle and the games that occur. |
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| I still don't see where the OP signed a written offer. The seller's agent may have been wrong to tell the OP that the seller wasn't accepting (not excepting) any offers, but that shouldn't stop the OP from getting another agent to write an offer or obtaining an offer form and writing it themselves. Since the seller's agent is NOT the OP's agent I don't see that they have any obligation to the OP to write the offer. |
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- Posted by dreamgarden (My Page) on Sun, Jan 11, 09 at 8:53
| brickeyee-"I have avoided purchasing in places that use lawyers to negotiate from the start (and so does my wife who is an attorney). It is not worth the hassle and the games that occur." |
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| "What kind of games?" Contract 'negotiations' often drag on, with the hours racking up the whole time. No contract actually exists during these 'negotiations' so either party can simply walk away. Couple it with an inspection clause and it can take a protracted time to actually get anything done. Many buyers seem to think the inspection results are a 'to do' list for the seller. 'Attorney review' is common in some places, often 'within n days after signing.' Why someone would sign a contract before having their attorney review it? In the vast majority of places contracts are tendered, and if accepted they are binding on both parties. Inspection clauses should be used for their intended purpose - finding major defects that are not readily apparent to the inexperienced. Over the years I have had requests for new HVAC systems since it is "old." The house was built in 1935. I had a seller walk when I refused to re plumb the whole house to eliminate the galvanized steel supply and smaller DWV lines. Houses built in 1950 often used galvanized lines.
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| "Why someone would sign a contract before having their attorney review it? If they want it checked run it by the attorney before submitting it to the seller. " The first time I made an offer on a home, many years ago, I got a LOT of serious attitude from the realtor when I insisted that my attorney look at the contract before it was submitted. He tried to pressure me into submitting an offer with two business days for attorney review. I refused. He was dangerously close to nasty. (I told him to lose the attitude or lose the offer) |
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| He tried to pressure me into submitting an offer with two business days for attorney review. I refused. (I told him to lose the attitude or lose the offer) Contracts are usually contingent on atty review. Depending on the market conditions, you could lose the house by not signing until after the atty reviewed. |
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| Linda, this was in the post-1990 trough, not a boom at all. The house had already been on the market 90 days. |
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| How many times have we read here about buyers not getting a house, because they were outbid during the attorney review period? How well does that speak for this process? It's archaic as far as I'm concerned. |
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| "Contracts are usually contingent on atty review." That depends on your location. RE contracts in Virginia are rarely contingent on an attorney review. |
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| Some states require the contingency, while in others the attorneys negotiate the contract. This may be true, but has little to do with the comment that was left in this post. The poster already said the agent tried to get him to do a two day atty review. I don't claim to be an expert in every state, however, I've never heard of a state where attorneys negotiate the contract for sale of real estate. |
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| "I've never heard of a state where attorneys negotiate the contract for sale of real estate." Funny, that is exactly how my Aunt purchased her house on Long Island. |
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| "I've never heard of a state where attorneys negotiate the contract for sale of real estate." Brickeye: |
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- Posted by golddust (debysnell@gmail.com) on Fri, Jan 23, 09 at 16:42
| I'm not a realtor but I don't think it's ever a good idea to make an offer through the listing agent. Your realtor should be representing you. The seller's realtor should be representing them. It gets quite sticky when the realtor is trying to represent both - if there are any problems. Been there, done that and learned the hard way. |
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| I'm having a problem with the fact that the listing agent would not accept the offer when the OP asked to submit one. Why did the LA have to get back to him? This is where I think something hinky is going on because she wouldn't even allow the OP to present the offer in order to present to her client. I also agree with points 2 and 3 in notto's post: 2. What seller in their right mind would say no more offers? And if they did, you as the realtor should advise them to think twice, especially with today's shaky deals. 3. You never know whether any buyer can get financing, so you shouldn't say no to any buyer. You should keep them around as close as you can until the house closes, because you never know. In this market, who in their right mind would turn down the opp for a 2nd offer at the last minute to help drive up the price or at least have a backup? I think the LA should have at least suggested a backup offer in case the first one fell through. Linda - what are you seasoned realtors seeing that those of us who think something is not right aren't? I'm genuinely curious, b/c as described, it just doesn't sound right. If I was a seller (I know this one is REO), I would be furious and report the realtor to the board if this happened to me. |
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- Posted by ncrealestateguy (My Page) on Mon, Feb 2, 09 at 8:22
| I would have at least accepted the posters written offer, and presented it. The sellers can tell me what to do with it. Even if they told me beforehand, i would have kept the offer, just to have the buyers name and contact info, in case the otherone fell through. To have an attorney review the Offer To Purchase is crazy. The forms are written by expert attorneys and are very BUYER biased to start with. There are plenty of ways to get out of a contract these days, so if you are ready to buy, you better submit. To those buyers that think that since a home is on the market for a long period of time that this decreases the chance that it will not receive an offer soon... the opposite is true! If the avg. days on the market are 100, and the home has been on the market for 90 or 120 days, then the likelyhood of that home getting an offer soon is dramatically INCREASED. It doesn't matter if it's a buyers market or a sellers market. |
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| "In this market, who in their right mind would turn down the opp for a 2nd offer at the last minute to help drive up the price or at least have a backup? I think the LA should have at least suggested a backup offer in case the first one fell through." We make recommendations to sellers all the time, however, we have to follow the sellers legal (and sometimes not so legal) instructions. |
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| Linda - what are you seasoned realtors seeing that those of us who think something is not right aren't? Sparkels Im only seeing that some of the facts are missing here. From being in the business, it sounds to me like they had a very strong offer on the property. (CASH or, a strong pre approval, good money down, strong credit scores, no contingencies) and had no reason to listen to any other offers, especially from a buyer who looked at the property a month ago (wasnt motivated enough to make an offer then). A red flag to me is that this buyer wasnt in contact with the listing agent for a whole month. Is this not a strong buyer that the LA didnt bother keeping in touch with him/her? When a bank has a strong offer on the table, they arent necessarily interested in getting the "highest" price, just the strongest buyer. They obviously felt that had that. Alot of people think the agent is doing something crooked or underhanded when things dont work out in their favor. I think most of the agents here are seeing that things are just not adding up. Parts of the story are missing. Agents have NO REASON at all not to submit offers, especially in this case where it would have been a double for the agent. My guess is they had a very motivated cash buyer in hand and had no reason to listen to any other offers. |
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- Posted by ncrealestateguy (My Page) on Mon, Feb 2, 09 at 16:58
| Berniek says: "We make recommendations to sellers all the time, however, we have to follow the sellers legal (and sometimes not so legal) instructions." We, as agents, are under obligation at all to follow the sellers illegal instructions. Quite the opposite, actually. |
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| "We, as agents, are under obligation at all to follow the sellers illegal instructions. Quite the opposite, actually." Do you mean "under NO obligation at all"? If a seller asks you to NOT change the status in the MLS from "A" active, into "UC" under contract, although it is in the MLS rules and causes a $100 fine, given the owner would pay the fine, would you follow the owners instructions? |
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- Posted by jerzeegirl (My Page) on Mon, Feb 2, 09 at 19:30
| An agent has no obligation to follow a seller's illegal instructions regardless of whether it's in his best interest or not. |
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| "An agent has no obligation to follow a seller's illegal instructions regardless of whether it's in his best interest or not." My attorney said under these circumstances it's ok. Fiduciary obligations are not always clearly defined in black or white. |
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- Posted by ncrealestateguy (My Page) on Tue, Feb 3, 09 at 6:03
| Yes, I did leave out the "NO". My long term reputation is way more important than going against my ethical values as an agent, and getting to be known as a shady agent by other agents. So you must also think it is OK to lie to other agents and buyers about there being multiple offers on a property when there are none. It is unethical, but not illegal. I would not do it. |
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- Posted by ncrealestateguy (My Page) on Tue, Feb 3, 09 at 6:34
| One should never use advice from an attorney to foster their ethical values. |
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| "One should never use advice from an attorney to foster their ethical values." Since this RE attorney knows the COE inside and out, I'd trust his interpretation, instead of me trying to explain it in front of a judge. Our responsibility IAW the COE: Article 1 Standard of Practice 1-15
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| Children, children, lets not let this get out of control. Bernie, now you are quoting ethics, which is quite a bit different from "legal". Your original post said, we as agents have to follow instructions by seller even tho they may be "not so legal". Your post made it seem as tho you were talking about state laws, not MLS rules. There is quite a difference. Agents ARE NOT obligated to break the law for any clients. IT could mean the loss of their license. Lets stop the nonsense. You're dancing all over the place with this. |
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| "Your post made it seem as tho you were talking about state laws, not MLS rules. There is quite a difference. Agents ARE NOT obligated to break the law for any clients. IT could mean the loss of their license. Lets stop the nonsense. You're dancing all over the place with this." Fiduciary obligations to our clients are the law, as spelled out in the COE. |
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