I used the Penofin Natural (brown label) on new ipe last month, looks great, but it's screen porch that doesnt get a ton of sun, so hoping to get away w/ transparent.

hi- Superdeck has an exotic hardwood stain that is waterbased and according to them will penetrate better than oil based stains. They have a colorant in the hardwood stain which eliminates the grey effect. Has anyone used or heard of this product- it is the company that is associated with Ducksback.

Hey Guys,

I've been reading your posts about what to do for UV protection (protect from greying). I accidentally came acros this solution but be forewarned it requires lotsa work.

I had ipe installed on my front porch a few months back and bought something call EHT by Wohlman (Exotic Hardwood Treatment). The can labeled it as "Natural" so I did not test treat an area to see what it would look like before I left it with the installers to coat on the newly applied decking. BAD IDEA. When I cam home from work, the installers had already finished the ipe with this EHT crap. And let me tell you, it looked like crap. It had this caked on appearance and was an ugly reddish brown color. You could not see any of the beautiful wood or grain that I paid big bucks for. I was pissed!!!

I called Wohlman technical assistance and they told me that I could take some of the stain out by using lacquer thinner. So with a little elbow grease I took some of the stain out using some lacquer thinner. After using the thinner, I could see my beautiful ipe, grain and all. It still had this ugly reddish tint to it though. It still did not look quite right. So, I applied the aussie timber oil (natural) on top, and oh man It is the most beautiful flooring I have ever seen!!! Each individual plank (it is tongue and groove) is a different color (the colors range from a yellowish green, to amber to brown). The floor on my porch looks nicer than the hardwoods inside the house.

So there yiou have it: EHT first, take some of the EHT off using lacquer thinner, then apply a coat of aussie timber oil. I'm hoping the dye of the EHT that was left on the wood after I took some of it off and the aussie tiber oil will combine to protect my ipe from the UV. Its been about 2 months now and there has been no fading/discloration. I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep you all posted.

Chris

I have read everything here and have the following comments:

1)If you can live with the no-maintenance silver patina you are way ahead of the game, because you will get one of the primary benefits of IPE. You are way ahead of the game. Spend your time doing more enjoyable activities!

2)With a no-finish policy, you also don't have to worry about repeatedly re-oiling BOTH sides of the wood to prevent cupping because if there is no finish on the top-side, the underside moisture absorption rates (given good ventilation)is the same. Another problem gone.

3) You can sand the deck nice and smooth to remove scratches and imperfections (including the plug tops) before the railings are mounted. Now you have a deck surface that will age/patina uniformly and is smooth as a baby's butt. Done.

4) Fastening with the "invisible" biscuit system, stainless retaining screws and using a heavy duty contractor-grade exterior adhesive for additional attachment back-up where the boards attach to the treated joists will give you a reliable attachment system (and a super solid feel) that will likely outlive you.

Waxing the cut board ends prior to installation is very important as are dust masks.

Do not use the biscuit system, no super solid feel will happen,do not use wax anywhere, and like how many posts can go into this subject??

All you good deck Folks have a drive safe real good Weekend!! J

We are building a second-floor, uncovered deck in Western Oregon - endless rains in the winter, very sunny and dry all summer. The deck will receive the full force of both, but I'm most worried about the sun because it will face west and a builder told us that sun is what causes cupping, warping, and weathering. We love IPE but are worried about using it in this environment. Anyone have experience with IPE in full sun?

Thanks for all the great postings, especially to all the pros who so generously share their expertise!

Ipe is fine in the full sun. John

I have done much research on IPE and am still confused on which is the best product to use. I am ready for decking in my house in the mountains of NC. My deck does have a roof over it. I am considering using the tonque & groove deck instead of the IPE clip method. Does anyone have any experience with the tonque & groove on a deck like this? Also is it also better to glue the boards down in addition to the fasteners? If so what glue would you use?

Man you might want to start a new topic for this one.

I have several projects out decked with T&G 3/4 x6'' ipe one of them is really low to the ground. Cross Ventalation is a must using this material.

We run a ss screw thru the T, slide the next one into it. Construstion adhesive is always used I like the 409 made by the liquid nail outfit.

I am so glad I found this forum. I'm pleased to gather all this great info about IPE of course I'm reading varied advice! as expected.
I'm considering IPE for a new construction "L" shaped wrap around porch flooring with the following parameters:
1. porch is well vented 36" off ground.
2. joists are running perpendicular to the house
3. there is no slope to the porch (home builder doesn't like the way it looks so out of wack!)
4. porch is southern and western exposure
5. I'm now lucky enough to live in temp. extreme central indiana!! (I miss CA) so we have cold winters and VERY hot humid summers
6. don't know the joist spans, probably 16"
7. I want the un-grayed look (sealed)

I always invisioned a T&G painted poch flooring, but am opening up to other options. I just don't want my porch to look like a deck! if you know what I mean.

I was researching and finding that IPE is not that much more than the cedar planks I was considering (pine T&G is out because of rot issues)

So... my questions are as follows:
1. Do you think I could consider IPE T&G considering I have no slope and the boards will probably run parallel to the house?
2. My contractor said he was going to top nail the Pine T&G (if we used that) so I assume he would do the same on IPE. Is this okay or necessary?
3. My husband wants a realistic opinion on maintenance. Do you really have to seal the underside too every year? (ewe, bugs under the porch!)
4. Is this a whole other level in skill for installation? Do you really recommend the IPE fastners? or are they not as good as top screwing?
5. I would consider 4" planks if T&G were not recommended. What is your opinion on keeping with the "porch" look?
6. When is the best time for installation? It is Jan now, house will be ready in August. How far in advance to order material to acclimate?

Thanks a 1,000,000 : )

I am thinking this is new constustion,that is not yet been built. Its better to run the decking at a 90 degree from the house not parallel to the house when installing T&G ipe this will add to the porch look,same way the old wrap around porches were built.

With my projects we use 1x6 T&G ipe,run a ss square drive 2 1/4'' screw thru the G ( corection ) with construstion adhesive 490 ( another corection ) I order the material with the G extended 1/8'' and the tops bevelved with a roundover from East Teak.

The install might require a sharp learning curve depending on your Carpenters skill leval. Using an 1/8'' bit we do the predrill/counter sink into the ipe not past the ipe into the pt frame. Drive the screw with an impact driver until it snugs up to the decking not past it.We also cut a 1/2'' slot in the T every 3' or so this slot will not show and neither will the screw. Done corectly the screw head will flush up to the bottom area of the G. Over driving the screw will result in faliure of the conection.

Ipe is some tough stuff, it is however moisture reactive cross ventalation is a must. As long as air is moving in and out under the frame and the install is right everything is fine. The very thing that makes ipe strong will make it tear itself apart with out these two things.

I have replaced the acclimate thing with Fans. After the decking is in place I recomend running a couple of big ell fans under the project for a week or so this moves out the water from the pt frame,and there is a lot of it,as it gases out in the first few important weeks.

Some Folks might feel that ipe will shrink so its better to lay it up on stickers close to the job before install if a person belives this running fans thru the stack is a good idea for a couple of weeks. I have never seen the need for this but I still recomend runing the fans under the project after install even with the sticker lay up.

I have several T&G ipe projects out 5 years with no problems at all including my own at Butler Manor. My 16' x12'Butler deck was left completly exposed to weather like we are having now covered in ice,sunshine,rain,ice again for a year before I put the building on it. The T&G ipe looks the same as the day it went down.

I defently do not recomend pre finishing all four sides of any decking X 10000 with ipe. John

thanks for the follow-up I really appreciate your time. (spoke with George at East Teak) what a great resource.
I've got all the figures now, and I'm looking at 3 choices for flooring considering my budget. (in order from least to most, #1 being my choice) (sorry but IPE is out of the price range!)
1. Tigerwood T&G 1" x 6"
2. Garupa 1 x 4" decking
3. 5/4 x 6 Cumaru

Please give advice on these other hardwoods. Would you install them the same as IPE?

Unfortunately, the porch deck is already built. I could have the builder install blocking to change direction of joists, but I think that will get more costly in labor.
Can you please clarify the install you posted above.
1. what do you mean by Correction?
2. in the predrill, you are drilling only into the product? not into the PT too?
3. Then when you drive the screw, you are only into the IPE again? When do you drive it into the PT?
4. What does the 1/2" slot do for you in the Tongue?

Thanks again for ignoring my ignorance!!

Your good Prine..of the three I would go Garapa, I like 1x6 but for that Porch look of long ago it was 1x4. You will be fine on the joist layout I was just thinking bout the ol porches and the way they were.

Corection I am little fuzzi on,but the instal has got to be right. Pre drill into the decking not past the decking into the PT frame, the screw goes past the decking into the frame but not the predrill. Reason being the pt is soft enough no predrill needed,if the predrill goes into the pt the threads on the screw will have nothing to grab into and it will just spin around. Not to worry I have been doing this for a lot of years no reason for you to get it right away.

The 1/2 '' slot in the T I got from TimberTech T&G material years ago,they did it so I did it,simple as that. It looked like a good idea for a lot of reasons.Its like the silver bell Tiger replent, Dont See and Tigers around do ya?? so it must work!! The slot adds extra positive drain as well as some extra ventalation in my Carpenters Mind.

Garapa is the new kid on the block,I like the stuff. Its klin dried,straight grain as much as any S American lumber can be,all heart wood,a track record for long live,very stable and easy to work with.

Its not possible to explain on line all the things I have learned about S American lumber after all these years. Much depends on your Carpenters Skill Leavel. Dont get me wrong there are a lot of good Tradesmen out there I am defently not the only one. John

Thanks John again for your time
really we need to start a new thread for sanity reasons! -oh well.
I think I get it now.
My only unanswered questions are: , if I want to go with T&G (which I love) the Tigerwood is the only affordable option. Has anyone had expereince with this lumber? would you install it the same as you describe for IPE? do you need to seal the ends after cuts, like others suggest for IPE??

I know what you mean about the direction of the wood for the old porches, I love that perpendicular look, I only wish my builder was paying attention!! (although I asked him about it and he said he would have run the joists perpendicular to the house no matter which way the floor was going to go, becuase he felt it makes for a much stronger porch!)

Enjoy your day, stay warm, we are at 2 degrees, ugh!

John
thanks for the follow-up to my Tigerwood questions moved from here to thread "anyone use tiger wood" a great help in my decisions.

John,

Did you mean to make the correction to say that you run the screw through the "Groove"?

I've never heard of that. Typically it is done through the "Tongue".

Mike, outdoor indoor total different things.

With a hardwood floor inside the house the idea is to jam that wood up as close as possible.

Installing T&G decking outdoors its the total 180, not jaming the wood together is the goal. I screw thru the G and just snug up the material.I order the material with an extra 1/8'' milled into the G. And of course the 1/2'' slot in the T for the Tiger Bell voodo,( another corection dont see ANY tigers around) if its not broke dont fix it, Im not going to change after years of installing it the way I do.

Side Note>>> I am begining to think I should not mention T&G ipe decking over here it is something I did on my own the learning curve was not all that radical for me but it might be for a lot of Tradesmen.

i have a customer that is interested in ipe decking

philadelphia area...

familiar with trex & 5/4 pt lumber...

any ideas on where i can locate ipe decking in the phily area... and any suggestions...

thanks

al

One good place>> East Teak 800 338 5636

Planning an IPE tiered deck 80 miles East of Mpls,MN any recommended supplers? Anyone with pictures of a screwed/plugged deck? My builder is planning on fastners but has never done an Ipe deck.

Read every post here and am going with Ipe for my deck re do.
two decks--larger one is 27' X 20' approx. PT under carriage is in good shape--16" on center joists.

I'm seeing 1"--5/4 and 2" Ipe deck boards from the internet suppliers
What is the best/recommended thickness for my outdoor un covered decks, please? (is it the 1 X material--is that strong enough?)

Man this thread should be put in book form.

3/4'' thick ipe is plenty strong over joists 16'' centers, of course the frame supporting the joists needs to be right. 1'' thick or 5/4 as its called would be nice but its way overkill and a lot more money.

Ipe has gone up in price from 03 wnen this started and is geting rare to get even from East Teak. One thing a person can do to lower the price is use 6'x 3/4 material. I have done this using 12' borders looks good.
John Hyatt www.deckmastersllc.com

thanks, John
I have seen on Ipe depot's website---24' long boards but only in 5/4 thickness--the longest for 1X (3/4" actual--I guess) is 20'
Is the 1X available in 24' lengths (or is that too long for this thin a material)
Design wise---24' would be ideal for my large 27' 4" wide deck---I could avoid any seams---by using the 10" boards (2) as a border on each side. This should cut down on waste--and of course, minimize the cuts
Does this make sense?
Just tried to call East Teak to inquire about this---getting no answer--not even an answering machine--even though it's Saturday morning----this seems odd (are they still in business?)

any input will be appreciated--John (and others)
Thanks!

East Teak 800 338 5636 on the weekends or after hours you get Judy telling you how to leave a message no telling why you did not get this.

Having 24' long boards on a web site and actually having them in the barn are two very differant things. I am sure you can order leangths as long as you want but you will have to wait,pay at least double, increse the shiping cost a lot no matter how thick it is. J.

My contractor has concerns about the long-term structural integrity of 3/4" t&g ipe (I know all ipe could have issues, but his questions concern this thickness for t&g). He has previously worked with ipe, otherwise really likes the material, and is comfortable with installation. He was wondering whether others have experienced the 3/4" t&g ipe coming apart more easily or other problems associated specifically with this t&g ipe thickness. He thinks a mere 1/4" alotted to each of the three portions of the t&g may be too thin. (He doesn't use the internet, so asked me to see what I could find out. B/c his supplier does not carry this thickness ipe t&g, he can't fully advise my contractor.)

APPLICATION here: We're replacing older 3/4" wood boards and have a strict 3/4" of clearance with which to work, unless he sands down the joists (labor that we'd all rather avoid). We don't have clearance even for clips/fasteners. I was considering the t&g b/c I wanted to avoid seeing nailheads/screws but, based on what I'm reading above, it appears the t&g might also need to be screwed down. Is this correct? If, indeed, the 3/4" t&g need also be screwed down to the joists, then what is the difference between using 3/4" t&g vs. just using regular 3/4" thick ipe boards (no t&g)? Finally, other than plugging the holes to avoid seeing any screws/nailheads, I guess countersinking the small head finish screws flush (are TrimStar still the best way to go?) is our best option? Please advise. (Re: ventilation, this small deck/landing is ~ 4 X 6 and is about 3.5' off of the ground. Steps down are to be built (with ipe) on two sides.) Thanks, in advance, for any wisdom/lessons learned that you can share.

Do not use the clips on Ipe x 10000 that low to the ground.3/4'' ipe is plenty strong over 16'' on center joists.I am not understanding ipe coming apart or the 1/4''alotted thing being to thin at all.

T&G ipe installed exposed to the weather requires ss screws placed thru the G. Screwing/ pluging will work as well. 3 1/2 '' ground clearance is fine as long as at least 3 sides are open to the air.

Its a good idea to start another topic this thread is way too old.

John Hyatt www.deckmastersllc.com

Thank you for your response, John. Just one follow-up: If we'll have exposed screws anyway, is there any benefit to installing the t&g vs non-t&g ipe boards here?

Not really they both will have the same look. Some Folks like the screw/plug look better with the plug detail it will however take more fasteners.

S&P would seem to be a lot of work but again, not really, East Teak sells the plugs,or make your own, with a Frostner bit/1/8'' predrill ( thru the ipe not the pt frame ) tightbond 111 and a Makita random orbit sander it goes pretty fast. And of course your Carpenter would not have to learn any new tricks. J.

Hi, John. What do you mean when you say it will take more fasteners to go the screw/plug route? (Sorry, just want to be able to tell my contractor all of this and have never been one to feign knowledge where I don't have it. I just always thought fasteners in this application referred to clips, and we won't be using those here...) Thx for your reply. (That's my last question, I promise! I'll let this thread die.) - Jean

T&G requires one fastener per joists, S&P needs two per joists.

I have recentley changed from square drive Stainles screws to Torx drive they seem to strip out the heads a lot less. If your project will take a few screws to put everything down a good place to buy ss screws>>Fasco Fastener 1 866 327 2633

Thanks so much, John. Catch you on a different thread in the future... - j

Hey folks- As much info as you could possibly need here but I actually have an issue unaddressed. We have a wrap around deck on the second floor of our house in Colorado. 2 years in after getting baked by the sun, heavy snow, rain and wind it's pretty much grey/silver all around. I started reading this thread with the intention of applying Mesmers but I'm thinking we'll stick to the natural effort free version. At this altitude the sun and weather would just speed up the wear. That said we are having issues with dust. We have scrubbed the deck with a brush after a late winter dust storm and sprayed it down with a garden hose a number of times but we are still seeing dusty foot prints tracking on to the walnut inside. Short of a power wash which seems like a bad idea I'm not sure the next option is. Any ideas what this may be from and how to address it? Thanks for all the knowledge. N

WE recently received an order of wood and the ends are starting to split. We didn't cut anything and they appear to be adequately sealed. The supplier is saying that it's because we stored it in our garage for 6 or 7 days but that's the same temperature and humidity as outside right now. Also, they want to send a complimentary can of oil but I hadn't planned on oiling this stuff, is that more essential than I thought? If so what oil should I use in the Southeast with humid summers and dry winters? I am wondering if the wood will continue to check and split this way or if it just needs a couple of weeks to settle in and then it's done. Thanks for any advice in advance.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wood Checking

Your wood looks totally normal. Those end checks are real minor. Oil won't do anything. The wood checks like this as it drys out, it will happen the most the first spring after install. Then as it reaches a stable state, the checks will mostly disappear as the wood shrinks dimensionally.

Now, get that deck installed before winter!

I disagree with Aidan. That's some sloppy looking Ipe. I have a local supplier...they let me pick out my boards...and they never look like that. If they did, I'd reject them.
Hopefully, you have to cut those boards down to size, and eliminate some of those problems. Ipe will check over time, but if you start with boards like that, they will only get worse.

good luck
steve

I am inbetween both of you.

The material is not all that grate but its nothing that cant be worked with. The end checks are normal that one has a little grain flip but that can be worked with as well.

Steve you just spolied!!!! J.

J man,
I guess that I am spoiled, but only because I have a great lumberyard that spoils me. I just picked out 19 16 foot 1x6 Ipe...all nice boards...some beauties. No checking, and none of that strange figured quartersawn looking stuff, which I hate on a deck. When I tell them that I need 19 boards, they'll bring in 30 from their warehouse, and let me pick the best. I love those guys.
Anyway, I looked at his wood photos again, and I'm sticking with my opinion. The minor end checking is ok, if you can cut it off...but some of those boards are checked all over, and some have that ugly figure. That grain flip is a nasty toe cutter.
The funny thing is that all those checked boards are anchorsealed. So much for that myth. We never did buy into that.

steve

griffse - Can I guess where you bought that from? Is your supplier Advantage Lumber (aka Ipe Depot)?

Thanks for all the great comments, I would like to get an opinion on these shots as well http://picasaweb.google.com/griffse/Scratches#
Jim, I am trying to work with the dealer (not very successfully) so I don't want to name the vendor right now. I certainly will once they either refuse to help or display great customer service. Have you had a less than favorable experience with Advantage?

There's a difference between checking & splitting, some of those ends look split to me, not normal checking. Most of it looked ok tho, a couple of boards with split ends & the one with the raised grain I might ask for replacements.

Keep in mind it's wood, it's not going to be perfect. That said don't expect any supplier to be able to deliver perfect boards, you just have to live with some imperfections. Keep that in mind when you order, anotherwords order a little extra. I know that's hard to do with the price of ipe, but it makes good sense to do so & you can always find something to do with an extra piece of ipe.

Now if you are going to your local lumberyard to pick up some boards & you are a long time good customer they very well may allow you to cherry pick the best boards & you can get boards that look perfect. Don't expect them to be able to do that for anyone who walks in tho.

Al

Rule of thumb is to allow at least 5% for spoilage. I generally order 10% extra.

Some ends may just need to be trimmed. That board that has the raised grain should be tossed as part of your 5%.

I just looked at your 2nd batch of pics. When I buy a lot of ipe, I would say it is not uncommon to find all of those defects.

Those that we can sand down, we use. Some we cannot. Those boards with the funny rough grain are pretty common, unfortunately.

The question is, what percentage of your load was like this. If it is just a few boards, I eat it. More then 10%, I exchange it.

I buy a lot of ipe and I get very good pricing. In exchange, I return very little.

You asked about Advantage...I've never bought Ipe online, but in april, I built a deck for a client here in Brooklyn. They wanted to save $, and order their own decking (online). I reluctantly gave them the go ahead.
They needed 74 14 footers, and ordered 77, in case of bad boards. I told them that I could get more locally if they needed them.
They ordered from advantage. I was pleasantly surprised to find their boards to be of excellent quality. I found 74 good boards, and built a 14' counter with the other 3.
I was more than surprised...I was shocked.
Go figger.

steve

I have used Advantage for a good portion of my jobs, and they typically have very good quality lumber. The few occassions where there were any issues, they simply had me email them a couple pictures and they sent out replacements fairly quickly. Ordering lumber online can seem a bit scary at first, but I have been more than happy with the service I have recieved from them.

At the beginning of next year I'll be in the market for about 2500LF of ipe decking. I was wondering if there were different grades of 1x6 ipe. One company has a import grade and a premium grade which is about a buck a foot more. Most companies seem to have only one grade.

I purchased some Ipe decking and my ends are splitting worse than Griffse. Is this normal as I have never built a deck with anything other than pressure treated? How much end split is too much?

I asked the company I bought it from, Eastteak.com, and they said end splitting is normal. I asked two different people there the same question and they both agreed….but obviously I am still concerned.

Will it continue to split? I did not use end sealant, should I put it on now or does that only work during construction?

Should I put a oil on to stop it? One coat..two coats.????and what type of oil is best? Could I use polyurethane to totally seal the wood? I was thinking marine polyurethane but a gallon of it is a bit expensive because it doesn’t seem that it covers a lot of square feet because the finish is thick.

End splitting is normal with any wood. Always order your boards a little bigger than you actually need to allow for cutting the ends off. You could reduce the dimensions of your deck a few inches at this point to allow for cutting the ends off instead of ordering longer boards/returning boards which will cost you more $.

Whatever you do don't put polyurethane on your ipe, it will peal in a short time creating a huge costly mess for you to clean up. Plus it does nothing to stop the uv rays from turning the wood gray.

A good coat of TWP is all I do on my ipe decks. Normally I use the rustic color in the 100 series, 116 I believe. Some of the other colors will work fine too, the pecan or dark oak.

With S. American lumber the apperance of checks and splits is a normal part of the drying process. They mostly disappear as the wood reaches a stable moisture level. The first season of drying the splits and checks look the worst because the wood is drying out most quickly at that time. When the boards shrink in width, up to 3/16" for a 1x6, the checks and splits close up, 99% disappear completely.

The end sealing is a total waste of time and money. The boards come with sealed ends for marketing reasons. Marketing of the sealer product.

We are a prime ipe deck exporter located in Bolivia and export to many different countries. What I read is all about drying and the relative 'moisture content' (also called MC) of the deck. The MC should always be in balance with the outside world. So in a wet surroundings, MC of 20% is okay, in dryer areas the MC must be something like 12%.
Issue 2 about decay, one should always ALWAYS apply a UV filter on top of the deck. UV makes your deck grey, no matter what wood, including deck. For more technical details and deck stain and cleaning see www.roquevalente.com

Here is a link that might be useful: deck stain

I HAVE RETURNED.been gone long time.
as john said,SCREW DOWN YOUR BOARDS WITH SS SCREWS.
my deck is only 3 ft off ground and this is my 4th year with no problems.
ipe dit shrink a little in width BUT you need ventalition.
i used 3 vents at bottom of deck near ground to get air in there.
YOU HAVE TO GET AIR IN THERE OR YOUR BOARDS WILL WARP.
i used 16 inch centers on the treated lumber joists.

boy, this new lumber [treated] is just GASTLY.it warps,cracks and twists and nothing you can do OTHER THAN LET IT DRY IN YOUR GARAGE FOR YEAR would help before putting down.

you should see cracks in my treated lumber,THEY ARE 12 FT LONG............