Return to the Porches & Decks Forum
| Post a Follow-Up
Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
Posted by anita55 (My Page) on Wed, Oct 28, 09 at 13:55
| Hi, we hired (NYstate) a licensed contractor to replace our old deck steps. He built these new steps with braces or brackets and no stringers. There are 12 steps, about 3 feet wide. The stairs boards are not uniform; there are gaps at the sides on some, and they look unfinished along the edges. Our big question is are stringers required or is he correct that the brackets meet code in NYS? The steps look like cr** and we are not happy. He is willing to take them out, but he says that he only replaced what was there and didn't upgrade at all, which would have cost more. We haven't paid yet, and are NOT looking to screw anybody, just to have decent steps that look good and are safe. So Question 1: are stringers required to meet code? Is there somewhere I can find this information online? And finally does replacing deck steps require a permit? He didn't mention a permit and i'm sort of reluctant to call our town for information. Thanks, folks. |
Follow-Up Postings:
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| I just want to correct that I should have said he didn't use "notched stringers" but I guess solid ones with brackets that only cover the back half of each step. Also I just measured the depth of each step and it is not uniform. Should it be exactly the same for each step? Thanks again |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Not possible to advise what is code in your area. If you contracted with this tradesmen to fix what was there and he did it Pay the Man.The which would cost more thing is a big factor. You want Quality Oats??? You will pay a Quality Price...but if you dont mind oats that have been thru the mule one time...Lets Make A Deal.. J. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Hey John, Why do you assume that we were looking for cheap? I have to say that i'm kind of offended by your attitude. The only thing I can admit that we did wrong was not to have specifics in writing. Are you a contractor? Do you give your clients a breakdown of what you plan to do and the materials that you will use when you bid the job? He didn't. This may be a case of caveat emptor but it is also bad business practice on his part. I did call the town and a building permit is required and this contractor did not inform me of this, nor did he apply for one himself. So he did a shoddy job, without a building permit and I should just pay up? He replaced the whole set of steps and I can honestly say that it looks like something I did myself. Please don't defend him and tell me I should pay up. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Contractor I am. Maney Wallets have paid for my service/procuct. Not real sure on the caveat emptor thing,just a country boy/Harley riding kinda guy here. What is your complaint, exactley.Bad business is a two way deal. J. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Anita, can you post some photos of the steps, showing both a close-up and a full-stair view? That would be easier to offer opinions and solutions on. There is an acceptable stair-building method consisting of solid stringers and brackets. But it depends on what type of brackets he used and how he executed. There are "does it meet code" issues and then there are "does it look good" issues, which can be entirely different things. And as John said, your local code is only your local code. It can be tighter or looser than national standards. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| thank you - I will take pictures tomorrow. I was interested in learning where I could find the code. If I go to the town hall will they have it there? Can I find it online? I wanted the building inspector to look at it for me but he won't because there was no permit for the work. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| You have many options here. Go to your building dept and ask for info on step/deck requirements. Typically it's printed out for you to get a personal copy. Another avenue is to get advise from a reputable deck builder in your area. He/she will know your local codes. You could also get a consult from a home inspector, but make sure they are in the know about decks which are sometimes overlooked, but shouldn't be as they are an integral part of a safety concern with houses, mobile homes, out buildings, etc. |
Lots of photos
| | |
| thank you I think I will go to the building department and ask for that information. Meanwhile I took photos and I want opinions about the quality and safety of this work. Again I am NOT looking to hurt this guy, I just have to decide whether I want him to remove the steps(he said that was an option) or just live with them if they are safe. I KNOW that they are not aesthetically pleasing. Thanks to all who take the time to look at these photos and give opinions. I have comments above each photo to point out what I see as a problem. 
different size steps; are brackets big enough to support the bigger steps?
 Why are some of the steps so big and others small?
 First step rise from slab is 7 inches to top of step. The rest are 8 inches, and the very top one is 7.5 inches 
Some steps have gaps
 Some steps don't have gaps 
This is the "finished" edge of one of the steps, 
This is the top step, looks great, right? 
Most of the steps are 11 inches wide. Others are 9 
|
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| In our area, your steps wouldn't pass inspection for many reasons. The rise maximum in our area is 7-13/16" and they need to be consistent. The tread width minimum in our area is 9". 11" would be primo when it works with the layout,(run). Those simpson brackets aren't the width of the treads. Simpson makes tread brackets. The bracket for the stringer wouldn't fly as well. Simpson makes a stringer bracket similar to a joist hanger, only the pitch is adjustable. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| thank you for the input. I think I'm going to apply for the permit and then have the inspector out to look at it. I'm really bummed about this. Did I mention that I am in the Town of Carmel in New York, in case anyone knows the area and the building code here. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Its not the way we do it for sure. Over here we get only 1/4'' differance in treads or risers, and we put the stringers on 16'' centers. Is it unsafe..not really I see stairs put in that way pretty often for a econ choice made by the Wallet. If the clips were a few inches longer the result would be the same. Its your basic mobile home install. J. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Very shoddy work. A DIYer could do better. You should have never contracted with this bozo. Did you have any references on his work? Any inspection will fail, but more important you're not happy. When I had my house built, the stair sub had all different heights (risers), he was dismissed from the site. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| I dont think this is an "econo" matter, simply a lack of experience. He doesn't know how to layout and cut stringers. Even with the full width outside stringers, knotched stingers inside of those plus a mid stringer, consistent riers and treads, let- in ledger at the top with a let- in sole plate at the bottom leaves you steps that dont need brackets, all screw fastened, that look a whole lot better and more importantlt, structurally safe. I would say these steps will fail in the future and should be re-done by a pro even if the "builder" you hired wont compensate for the amatuer work. I'd have them re-done! |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
Wow, this is like the game of "play the inspector" that
Fine Homebuilding runs. Here are the code violations that I found:
1. Max riser height 7 3/4", with all risers within 3/8" of each other. Yours range from 7"-8".
2. Min tread depth 10". You've got some that are only 9".
3. Tread supports: questionable. I've not seen angle brackets used, but at a minimum they should support the full depth of the tread.
4. If risers are open, no more than 4" gap. You've got 5 1/2-6 1/2".
5. Railing: Are the posts attached to the stinger with regular screws (look kind of small)? You should use carriage bolts to secure them. And yeah, the gaps, ragged edges, and exposed connectors are all pretty ugly, though not safety risks. On the plus side, the solid stringers look like they're attached ok, and the railing ballusters are the proper gap (max 4"). The tread & riser code are to minimize the risk of tripping while going up and down the stairs because of inconsistent spacing that tricks your leg muscles. I doubt your whole stairway would collapse, but you might risk losing a tread down the road. And people could trip. Plus it's ugly. BTW, my comments are based on a document that interprets the IRC as it applies to decks (linked below). Your local codes may be stricter or looser than this. |
Here is a link that might be useful: AWC's deck construction guidelines
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
Anita,
Not a good job for alot of reasons, mentioned by Inspector Weedy. There should also be a handrail on the house side. The steps look fairly strong, and will last awile. Not a good looking job. He also left his dark pencil marks for all to see...that's one of my pet peeves...seeing those marks forever, when he could have sanded them away in no time.
Since we aren't privvy to the contract. Did you pay for premium oats, or recycled oats? You got the latter. steve |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Your steps are unsafe as they are and should be re-worked by someone reputable with experience. It's going to cost you, but what price do you put on you and yours concerning safety! |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Hi There, I want to thank everyone for their input and links. The contractor says he was asked to replace what was there, and that is true, so notched stringers would not have been included. However the rest of the job is poor, and he has been invited back to look at the job his men did, together with me and my husband, and talk about whether he can re-do it so it is safe and looks decent or whether he will just remove them and we will hire someone else. Again, I want to reiterate that we never said we needed the cheapest job he could do, just replace the steps at whatever cost. We did not haggle over price or ask for a lower cost. This is the way he chose to do replacement steps. Thanks again. |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Do you have photos of what the old stairs looked like? |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| Hi I wish I had taken pictures but I didn't. I can search through my old photos to see if I may have an accidental photo but I didn't take any beforehand. Boy, this has been a lesson I won't forget! |
RE: Use of stringers on deck steps help
| | |
| If anybody is still checking this thread could you see my newer post, called "was use of stringers on deck steps" - still have questions. Thanks |
Post a Follow-Up
Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum. If you are a member, please log in. If you aren't yet a member, join now!
Return to the Porches & Decks Forum
|
|
|
