I think the main reason that these other species are kiln dried are that they are not as stable as ipe.

I thin that once they are locked down securly to the framing, they are fine. If they are going to sit around exposed to the elements, then you might have a problem.

In your situation, I would inspect the material as close as they will allow it. If it looks OK, I would not be too worried. Slight warps and bows are fairly easy to fix. Twisting is not.

hi thanks, I will try and get a good look at the actual stuff. I'm just worried about a deal that's too good to be true.

I pesonally would be very scared of air dried 1x massaranduba. I only use massaranduba if it is kiln dried and 5/4x material, other than that you could be asking for problems. I would make sure you get a good warranty on the decking if you want to try this option. Also, make sure it is from a reputable lumber yard that will back this warranty.

When they first started marketing mass it was all air dried.

There are some movement issues its a good idea to deal with before its installed like keeping it off the ground and covered,like with a tarp, just generaley keep it out of the sun and away from water.

However after install there is very little movement at all.In fact Mass is better for ground contact than ipe as if a few hundred years makes any differance.

My local lumber yard began to handle air dried 1x Mass ghesss like 10 years ago under the bulletwood name. They had a lot of call backs from HOs because they dident know the little things the material demands before install thats a lot of the problem with all South American lumber Folks are used to buying PT from the box stores and figure this stuff is the same.

Anyway they dumped the Mass way below what they payed for it figuring they booked a loser. I bought a lot of it and made some real good money. Its all in knowing how to work with it. J.

I do not see why anyone recommends tarping material before installation. Many lumber yards store decking outdoors, not covered by tarps, but exposed to the weather as it was meant to be installed that way anyway.

The other downfall of tarping decking is that it is like putting your boards in a sauna. If sunlight hits the tarp, the heat becomes trapped in the tarp heating any moisture as well. This can and most likely will cause boards to start cupping and twisting.

The main purpose of the tarp is to keep the water/snow off the boards. When they are stacked together, rain or snow melt can get in-between boards causing water marks/staining/mold. If there are no chances of rain, take the tarp off so the lumber can breath and any moisture can evaporate.

A.You got a lot to learn about SA lumber deckbuilder dude.

B. In fact with a post like that you got a lot to learn about the Business all together.

But being the helpfull person I am here is some basic 101 class material for you to study.

All lumber yards do the best they can to store All lumber under cover some have more covered space than others but if they could they would.

As an example pt syp will twist,warp,crack and generaly through a fit like a 2 year old when exposed to the sun. This is normal to see out in the yard but not in the box stores because everything is inside. My outfit tarps up the pt framing material as well then we use it as we need it.If you dont know this return to B.

South American lumber,klin dried or air dried, might get a few water marks going on left uncovered but thats a little thing compaired to what the sun combined with rain can do to a stack of it laying uncovered on the ground. The bottom of the stack will soak up moisture from the ground x 100 if a good rain hits it unless it is sitting on a 2x sticker. The top of the stack will get wet as well and when the sun comes up will react the only way it can when everything down below is soaked and it is geting hot. Ipe is better at staying put than Mass or Grappa but it will react badly as well.

Keeping all lumber up off the ground and covered on the job will save a whole lot of work durning install and keep some of it from becoming landfill. X 100 with South American lumber. If you dont know this return to A.

Tarped,stickered,lumber does not need to Breath. It needs to be protected untill install, Then it needs to Breath.

I going to spring a suprise test this week so study up.

John Hyatt www.deckmastersllc.com

Ah, the almight John has decided to grace us with another condensending remark. When we first had our differences I took it with a grain of salt and listened to what you had to say. Now I can tell if someone has a different practice than you, you simply could not be wrong???

For starters, while some lumber yards do try and put their decking under cover, the fact is there are so many that simply stack it outside. Many of the bigger distributors of ipe or other SA hardwoods do this. It is stored outside with absoultely nothing protecting it from the weather. Then from their it gets distributed to retailers, who may or may not leave it outside. Have you ever wondered why the bigger box stores such as the depot have pt that is never straight while the 84's of the world that store it outside or in non climate controlled barn seem to have much better materials?

Second, because I said not to cover it does not mean that I am saying to simply throw it on the ground. Of coarse it should be up off the ground, the ground is not a place to store any type of wood due to moisture transfer. It should be stacked neatly up off the ground, and it would be prefered to still have it sticked.

This will allow the wood to aclimate to the weather at the jobsite before installation. Tarping your decking does not allow for any aclimation as the temperature and humidity under a tarp are going to be much different than the actual outside conditions.

If the lumber is not properly aclimated to the climate you will definetly have more movement as the moisture in the wood evens out with the moisture in the air.

You never built a deck in your life Man.

You defentley have not been in the business for 10 years. Get A Life. J.

So because I comment back with the same "professional courtesy" as you show me....I never built a deck before and I need to get a life?

You are simply a one of a kind Mr. Hyatt.

Basic wood 101:

Wood acclimates inside. Wood seasons outside.

Inside is a controlled climate. The conditions change very little over time, so the wood will stabilize to the conditions inside within a couple of weeks.

Outside the climate is constantly changing with the weather and seasons. The wood is constantly changing, too.

Never leave wood outside to "acclimate." If your wood needs to be seasoned before use, stop burning wet logs in the fireplace! Seasoning is for firewood, not construction lumber!

wow, what have I started lol Well, I found an even better deal on kiln dried 5/4x4 cumaru online and if the shipping quote comes in good I think I'm going with that. Once I get it in I'm probably going to store it outside for a month or more while I start to build, have to act on the deal now or I might loose it. All the info you guys have posted has been a big help. I'm thinking of building a quick, temporary overhang over it once the stuff is delivered to keep it dry and still allow air movement. Is 4x4's 16 on center under the decking good enough to keep it off the grass or does it need to be higher? Should I put plastic film down over the floor spacers to further protect it from stains and water from the grass? I'm really getting excited about how it's gonna look from checking out all the pics of beautiful decks in this forum. :-)

Like Aidan and I were saying outside lumber moves all the time. Your lay up plan sounds good but there is no need to use plastic film underneith. Just a simple 2x sticker,a tarp held down from the wind and rain will do it.

The lumber will change as the weather changes. This will some what get stable after install and after your frame has gased off the water and it has dryed out and leveled out to what its going to be.

All woodworkers fight movement its part of the fun. Cumaru has its share of it as well as surface checking but for the most part it stays together not bad and will make you a good surface.

Change is Change and Money is Money but what sticks to the Bee is what makes the Honey. We all have to make deals now days if this material seems to be one go for it. J.

Marcelo, I think you will be much happier with the cumaru and if you get it at a better price, sounds like you cannot go wrong. You should have very little movement with the 5/4x4 cumaru. 5/4x4 is just about the most stable size of wood that is commonly used for decking. The thicker it is and the narrower it is, the more stable it is.

That what I'm thinking and hoping. (crosses fingers) lol

It has been a long time since I have looked at this forum. And, this is an interesting thread. Massaranduba is one of the main species from the forests north of where I live and have worked for some time sourcing lumber. I am not too involved with the lumber now, expecpt for transportation. The main problem with Massaranduba is that it checks easily upon exposure to the elements. The best bet is KD deck lumber, especially for Massaranduba. If it is AD it needs to be well stickered with proper airflow and keep the direct sun off of the top of the boards. An important factor is how well the material is bundled for shipment. If it is incorrectly bundled problems can result. that is taht stickers are placed correctly and the strapping is well done. That is from the time it leaves the sawmill until it gets to the final destination. Another observation I have is that Massaranduba marks a when it gets wet from rain.

dk

Good to see you again Don!! J.