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dimitri_katsaros

Ipe board spacing, dress board fastening, and countersink depth

Dimitri Katsaros
13 years ago

Hey all... reading all over the place and getting confused by different advice. :-)

Issue one:

I am going to lay down 5/4 x 6 ipe and have been told to use 1/8", 3/16" or 1/4" spacing depending on who you ask. Is this an aesthetic decision or is there a "right" answer?

Issue two:

I have this beautiful 16' long 1 x 12" board of ipe that I'll have to cut down to 13' 3.5" to use as a dress board (don't worry, the cutoff will find an awesome use elsewhere ;-)) Anyway, do I still face screw or do I use stainless nails for shear strength? Either way, what should the spacing be on the fasteners here?

Issue three:

I will be face fastening and plugging. Is there a rule as to how much to countersink by? For the 5/4 decking, I was thinking 1/4" and the 1" (3/4 real) dress board, perhaps 3/16?

All framing is pressure treated and joists are 16" OC.

Thanks in advance!

Dimitri

Comments (12)

  • Dimitri Katsaros
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    No one has an opinion? Oh well... anyway two great suppliers that I have heard about hear and have been wonderful to deal with is East Teak for the wood and Woodrich for the stain.

    With the stain, I ordered the sample kit first to see the differences in tone on the ipe I got. Strangely, I didn't see any difference between them since the boards are so dark to begin with. So, I went with warm honey since that is the only one that doesn't have the black pigment added. However, what I did notice was how easy it was to apply and how great it looked! :-)

    I await any advice on the issues above.
    Dimitri

    Here is a link that might be useful: Really cool stain company

  • salmon_slayer
    13 years ago

    I spaced mine about 1/8 - 3/16 and am happy. 1/4" would be too wide for me

  • deckman22
    13 years ago

    Ipe will shrink more than you may think so a 1/16" to 1/8" works for me. Use some sort of spacer to keep uniform gaps.

    When plugging I make the plug hole about 3/8" deep.

    Screw the 1x12.

  • Dimitri Katsaros
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    As far as the plug goes... the cutter I bought (W.L.Fuller) makes plugs that are 3/8" ... is a 1/4" deep okay?

  • salmon_slayer
    13 years ago

    yes, use the right kind of glue i bought my plugs from east teak reasonable price - much less hassle and smoke

  • Dimitri Katsaros
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks all!

    Looks like the center of suggestions is 1/8" give or take, so that's what I'll go with and adjust as I need to.

    @salmon slayer -> I don't want to go too deep into the wood and run out of plug... does one measure the depth from the top or bottom of the countersink bevel (e.g. does the plug sink into the bevel a bit if using trimhead screws)

  • philodog
    13 years ago

    I was just about to post a similar question. I laid down 4/4x6" ipe on part of a deck project a year ago and used joist hangar nails as spacers. Now the spaces are huge due to shrinkage. The boards I have stored for the rest of the project are 3/16" wider than the exposed boards. Should I use no spacers this time anticipating shrinkage? Also Dimitri, I countersunk the face screws and now most of them are back above the board level (from depth shrinkage I assume)so I`ll need to reset them. So you may want to countersink a little deeper so they don`t push your plugs up or wait a year for the shrinkage to occur before plugging.

  • deckman22
    13 years ago

    You don't want to wait a year before you plug the the holes.

    Buy the plugs, believe me it's not worth the hassle trying to make your own plugs.

  • deck.builder
    13 years ago

    Dimitri,

    1. There really is no "right answer" because it can depend on the specie of wood, how it was dried, and your climate. Do you know if the Ipe was air dried or kiln dried? If air dried I would personally o with the 1/8" spacing. If it is kiln dried, depending on what your weather is like, I would most likely go with a 3/16".

    2. For the 1x12, use stainless steel screws. And screw the hell out of it! I typically like to use 5/4x12 instead just to make sure it will not cup at all. I would suggest running 4 screws every 12-16". You could plug over these as well if you like though.

    3. Like others have mentioned, I like to sink my plugs about 3/8".

    While I do like the look of plugs, it is A LOT of work. Any reason you decide to go with that? I personally like using fasteners, ipe clips work great. Plus they will space your boards for you.

  • Dimitri Katsaros
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Thanks deck.builder!

    1. The guy at East Teak west coast said that they were KD, but since then, I washed them with Woodrich's two-step process before laying them down, so they are somewhere between KD and AD.... I think what I may do is simply add up all the widths (only 19 boards), see how much I am "short" by, divide by 18 and use that as guidance.

    2. This is the first definitive answer I've gotten on the 1x12... I was going to do only 3 screws on the 16's, but you make a good point about cupping (not to mention weight in the shear direction) so, I'll do 4 on the 16's as you suggested.

    3. I did a test countersink and found that a 3/8" sink (including bevel) put my 2 1/4" screws perfectly such that the shank was completely in the decking and the thread was completely below! Thanks!

    I wanted to plug because I love the look, have always wanted to try it and that this is only a 120 square foot entry deck (so about 500). Still a lot, I know, but I'm hoping it's worth it. :-)

    Now, as for countersinking the 1x12, I fear that a 3/8" depth won't leave enough "meat" on the board, so I was thinking maybe 9/32"? (.75*.375 was my thinking) Is this overthought or a good idea? I know that by doing this, I'll drive 3/32 of the shank into the beam, but this is a 4x10, so splitting shouldn't be an issue.

    Thanks for all the advice!

  • deck.builder
    13 years ago

    Sounds like you are on the right path Dimitri.

    The 9/32" countersink should be ok with the 1x12. However, do a test run first. Plugs are tapered, and if you do not sink them enough, they may not hold tight. If they are too lose in your countersink hit hole, simply try using the 7/16" or 15/32" countersink bit.

  • Dimitri Katsaros
    Original Author
    13 years ago

    Actually, the stainless plug cutter I got by Fuller not only seems to be straight-sided (chamfered end), but alsois stated to have a slightly larger diameter than its paired counterbore, so I think I'm in good shape there... I'll know soon enough as I'm almost done screwing everything in and will then go on to plug cutting.