Sweet....... I can't seem to find a "color swatch" for #516... the highest I see is #515.

I looks really dark to me..... very nice, but dark.

Steve

WOW John mon you actually tell your clients that they can NOT use their deck for 2 weeks!!! more power to ya...I can see it now...."but John I want to use my deck NOW!!!" LOL....OK well I'll let it sit for another week and see what happens....wife is chompin at the bit to put the furniture back out there and use it as well as take the dog out that way!! Don't want paw prints all over the finish nor little brown prints in the house!!!

spartacus....yeah a few of those pics came out much darker than what the color is in person....I'll put a few more on tonight of pics taken looking straight down onto the deck....it is really not as dark as that angle shot of the lower deck.....and yeah I could NOT find a color swatch of #516 anywhere either...just saw on the weblink below that color is same as #116 and website shows color swatch of #116....of course on what type of wood??? never really can tell till you put it on your specific wood species.

So far only one Wallet has gone for 4 coats and he never even gets out on his decks its all for show, my very own deck out back is the one I really work on,latley I put another coat of 116 on the top rail its back now to a simi gloss no lie I can see the reflection of my hand on it. No lift,no peal, no prep,I just cleaned it with a hose,dry and brushed the finish on.All together that rail has hmmmmm 6 coats or so.
Sweetster I went to that twp site and they are sooooo bad!! using that Sunglasses thing,superdeck started that ghesssss like 20 years ago. Do these people have no Pride!!!??? Heeeeeeeeeeeeeee J.

nope...no pride! :)....so John mon when do you think i should attempt to put coat #2 on to get that glossy finish??? the fall??? let me know what your test of #516 leads to...I love the color right now....do you notice the color darkening quite noticeably with multiple coats??? can you post some closeup pics of your deck? here or on your company website??? love to see what I can expect.

sweet, dangerous territory. I just wanna go on record as saying "I don't think its a good idea" putting a wet on dry coat that is still repelling water. You are changing the characteristics of the product.

When I first started pushing the 116 the twp folks dident belive it either, Sweet your just going to have to work with the stuff your own self, I get my sample when my local lumber yard makes its next order so that might be next month.I compare this to burning lacqure into itself same kinda thing,the next coat must burn in to the one below it.I do know its working for me with the 116. Dont get in a hurry just try it on a little test area and see how it works, use it like polish just rag a little on and go from there. J

Well just wanted to post that I have added some new pics to show how quickly the TWP #516 lightened up as it soaked into the IPE....I am experiencing quick wet-out on quite a few boards and will definitely be adding a second coat before the winter comes....I've done a test area and all seems great....the 1 yr weathered and RAD cleaned wood is definitely not what the direction on the can refer to as "new wood"....the one coat on the IPE deck skirts looks great and had very little lightening....this wood was not "seasoned" for a year but saw the 4 wet/dry cycle..

Thanks for the update, sweet. How many times would you estimate the the TWP has been rained upon since first finished?

I almsot hate to say this for you are going to think I am somehow biased.. I foresee the same thing happening with the second coat. Do a test area now and see how that area weathers out before you commit to the second application.

well stained July 28th I believe....and had a light rain (~30 minutes) 26hrs after staining...then two days later had a day of rain and then ~5 more rains....so about 7 occurences of rain in 3.5 weeks....some all day and some only a few hours.

whatcha thinking Ken???...no absorption and "washing" away??? I saw it soakin' in like a sponge when first applying.

I'm leaning towards that thought, yes. I don't want to say anything definitively but the nature of the TWP is that it does cure so the idea of deep penetration is questionable. There are two ways to go and my inexperience with the TWP5 series also factors in. 1) Your proper prep has overriden the nature of ipe to repel anyting you throw at it and it has indeed penetrated deeper than usual. 2) The TWP is like everything else out there and unless you pile on coats and form a locking film at the surface (like John suggests) the product gives up the ship and just melts off with subsequent rainfall/UV cycling.

Of course you know how I feel about turning pentrating sealers into form filmers so this one is a wait and see. I do hope I am wrong and everyone has a laugh at my expense but doing this day in and day out for years you do learn a few things and one is to not transform a product from its manufactured intention. The product I use on ipe is made to penetrate two mils and lock that is why it lasts longer. As far as the color of the finished product you decide.

This is a recent customer and reader of this website.

Ken,

that deck has some similarities to mine...I see that the skirting appears to be a nice deep rich "uniform" color while the decking has much more color variation/splotchy nature....did you NOT use RAD on the skirting?? my skirting (not seasoned for 1yr like the deck was also not treated with RAD...got tired and simply forgot to do it)...but putting the TWP on it allowed it to stay that nice uniform deep color even today while the deck afforded the same varied/splotchy color seen with "your" stain above

Well the 500 twp is looking disappointing.Very simailar to what happened to my deck when I used the 9400 series Ato.Every week the deck had a different appearance.I sure hope the twp 116 holds up.It has been on my deck for more than a month and it has lightened slightly nothing compared to what has happened with your experience with the Twp 516.

My little test of the 516,three coats,left in the sun (man is it hot over here or what??) looks the same. Its a little darker than the 116 but other than that it looks good to me. Nice looking project Ken! J

Sweet, the whole deck was was treated with the RAD system (albeit at a stronger solution then what I sell do to other issues on the deck left from construction.)

The floor was actualy very uniform. What you are seeing is the sun shining through the trees causing different variations of light reflected by the transoxide pigmentation in the sealer.

Pressurepros -
The deck looks good. Is this a sealant that you developed ? When did you seal the deck? I'm just full of questions.

This is a example of the sealant I will be releasing in '07. If all of our samples and decks hold up for one more northeast winter we will be systems 'go' for product release. I also tint the color in the field. Upon introduction we will have four colors and a clear (for diluting color for those that want very little pigmentation.

Feel free to shoot me over an email at customerservice@restore-a-deck.com with any questions you have.

Kudos to Sweet for keeping us informed on his experience with twp #516. It clearly has not performed well with a single coat application. I hope you will continue to post after you add the second coat.
I wish John would post some pictures of his deck with multiple coats. I'd like to see what one looks like after two or more years.
I had 1 coat of 9400 series ATO put on my very sunny, Upstate NY, Ipe deck in June, and while it has faded considerably it still looks ok and the fading is quite uniform. It will certainly need a new coat next year.

Ken, I hope one of your colors will be similar to ATO "Mahogany Flame" as I much prefer that to the color you showed in your post.

Marty

Marty, the pictures do not serve this deck justice. This was more of a brown tone but it did have very sharp red undertones as shown in the second picture most accurately. The final color was what other contractors on the job site described as "how the ipe looks when its wet". Of course we will be offering tones to all ends of the scale.

One has to remember a product like TWP116, while cheap, is well, mostly mineral spirits. Thus the non-VOC compliance. When a company has to change formulations and stay inside an established product budget, cheap oils get added and UV color shift protectants may be eliminated as well as the key ingredients which made the product work in the first place. I would venture to say that the original TWP116 and the 516 sweet used are as different as Cabots and Sikkens.

We have none of those limitations in the new sealer. It has twice the trans oxide pigmentation (without blurring the grain) of something like TWP or Ready Seal, a very high solids to binder ratio (the highest solids content of anyting out there), and twice the fungicide of anything on the market. It has the ability to stay non drying in the wood while having a locking effect at the surface to prevent mositure damage. On top of that, mositure content is not important. No more waiting three days. Small decks can actually be done in the same day as cleaning.

This product will revolutionize the whole sealer market.

mjh5,jeffk and others,

don't write off TWP #516 yet!...as I mentioned I erred on the side of caution and went with the 1 coat application recommended on the can for "new wood" and this deck had seen a full northeastern winter and then followed by pressurepros RAD cleaning....the IPE skirting material and my mahogany post caps did NOT see the full year weathering and instead just 4 rain cycles and none of these have faded at all! John Hyatt has gotten good results with a test piece....also remember I was a bit worried as a 24-48 hr cure time was recommended on the can....I made it barely 26hrs before we got measurable rainfall here.....and I do get "wet out" on numerous boards fairly quickly which suggests that the IPE can indeed absorb more TWP....so wait for the second coat results(as soon as it stops raining here) before jumping to conclusions....adding the second coat may allow it to be bang on or it may not improve.....however, the test area I did and John's recent results point to needing that second coat that, by the way, TWP recommends for "old wood". TWP describes "old wood" as "unprotected wood that has turned gray to black due to UV radiation and needs to be cleaned which was exactly the case with my deck unprotected for 1 yr........so the jury is still out on TWP #516. Again I erred on the side of caution with one coat per John's recommendation that it would be easy to add the second at a later time and to avoid any sticky mess that has been verbally perpetrated to have happened....I have yet to see an actual report of that here though....my test piece showed none of that

I will definitely keep updating my webshot pics and thread to let you know what happens to the deck good or bad with that second coat of TWP #516

John I am remembering a few words like...cheep, may be,venture to say, but what the hay the Ken has never used twp of any kind, it just could be the twp Folks have hit on a thing,they worked on for 10 years,that can be adapted to the green police mafia and still work as well that may be as well and could be a venture. TWP pricing just could be the result of a good Business happy with a fair profit.
Yo Ken!! if your stuff works do I still get free smaples??? J

Johnny you'll be the first to get samples, I promise.

Ego has nothng to do with it. Ingredients are what ingredients are. I am not knocking TWP. I have used it many times before just not on ipe and I didn't like the one coat coverage on softer woods. I know many contractors that use it but that does not change the fact that it is very high in mineral spirits content. Mineral spirits evaporate away. They do not offer any protection in and of themselves. Our new product has almost no spirits and is well below the next 25 years of VOC tightening standards. (which means one won't have to worry about new formulations every few years)

The manufacturer of the product I speak of learned everything he knows from the owner of TWP. In this case the student has surpased the teacher. I hope I am not offending you in any way, John. I am not knocking you, your methods or TWP in general. I do this for a living. I don't construct decks. I don't paint houses. All I do is wood restoration as it is my passion. Day in and day out I speak to chemists, manufacturers and other contractors. There is plenty I don't know, of this I'm certain. But.. my knowlege of what makes a sealer work, application techniques, prep work and experience is strong enough to understand that there has not been a product like this to come down the pike.. ever.

The resin solids in our new product alone are so hard to get they take 3 weeks to cook and prepare and maybe three manufacturers in the country even sell them as they are very expensive. A company like Cabots would have to sell the product for $75+ per gallon to meet their profit margins. Not having their excessive overhead we can offer the product at $35 per gallon. I would put one coat of it against one coat of TWP every day of the week and I guarantee it will last 400% longer and maintain a breathable coating.

I don't expect every contractor to jump on the wagon as most guys are using stuff that costs $20 per gallon. This is for high end customers looking to pay a little more for a product that will last.

Ken,
400% longer than twp. Your confidence in your product seems to be growing.Great! $35.00 a gallon doesn't scare me off if it performs the way you claim.It would be a bargain.
Sweet, For what it is worth, I only put one coat of twp 116 on my step treads. It was "new" wood and in a months time it has faded much more than the two coats I applied to the rest of the deck.Also,the treads do not bead water and seem to absorb the water quickly.I plan to second coat the treads before winter. They definately need it.Just needs to stop raining.

Single coat versus single coat, 400% is conservative.

If you were to apply two coats of our product (not recommended) the barrier would be pretty intense. I have done testing doing multiple coats to check for cracking and peeling and have test boards with five coats on them. They are shiny as he-- and are way too dark but sitting out back taking a beating from sun and rain after about 13 months they show no signs of wear. Of course a test plank versus real world wear and tear is not an accurate depiction of durability but I expect that plank will look the same for the next 3 years or so.

I know John has nothing to gain from taking pictures of former projects as he does not sell TWP or gain anything from advertising it (very noble, John) but there is a laundry list of potential problems with layering on multiple coats of a penetrating oil. I wish I were closer to him so I could do a little tour of his older projects.

I guess time will tell. Many people have followed the multi coat TWP experiment this season. The results should start coming in over the next 12 months. I hope for the homeowner's/DIY'ers sake the coating has performed as promised because I am doubting RAD will crack a film formed finish.

Ken,
Do you think you could post some pics of your test boards and/or some additional pics of a deck you have stained with your new product? I am very curious about the color(s), transparency, durability etc.

I am getting together a marketing video for the RAD System. I will have the photographer snaps some pictures of the of the sealer project samples for you. All will be posted on my website when the product is introduced. This testing has been going on for two years (and by contractors around the country) so these claims are definitely not being pulled from a hat. I offer high end products and the way I do business is to deliver on my promises. I'll keep ya' posted.

All I can say is I hope it's true. It would be nice to have a longer duration time in between stainings.
I just hope there is no acrylic in it. You can see the grain. It comes in nice colors, tropical colors. And....keeps it's color for at least 2 to 3 years.
--
When you say the testing is going on with contractors around the country... what contractor?..Any in Pa?.. I'd like to take a look at it. Are you working with a corporation? Do they have other products they release nationally?.. Or is this you and your website and some friends experimenting with it?
Like I said, if it works just a year longer than the current stuff and looks nice, I'd definitely try it and congratulate ya.

Professional wood restoration contractors around the country (one in just about every state) have been using the product (albeit in a slightly different form). If you want to see it an action come work with one of my crews one day.

"Are you working with a corporation"
PressurePros is a corporation. If you mean large manufacturer, the answer is no. Large manufacturers produce what everyone is already used to. They have the technology and capability to make better products they just fear noone would buy them.

"Or is this you and your website and some friends experimenting with it?"

PressurePros, Inc while not a Fortune500 company grosses about $600,000 a year between wood restoration and product distribution. We are negotation with some VERY LARGE retail distribution outlets across the United States and Canada. Don't get the wrong opinion about some fly by night company that is out back mixing oils. The procedure and final product are currently in patent pending status.

There is no acrylic. There is no silicone. It is an oil based, pentrating, semi transparent sealer. The same product type of product I have ben telling people on here to apply for a few years now.

Keep your mind open, you won't be disappointed.

So some day I can say "I chatted with Ken when he used to be a nobody like the rest of us.Just kiddin Ken.Why do you say people wouldn't use a better product that the large manufactures are capable of developing but yet dont? Cost? If you are negotiating with large retail stores across U.S and Canada wont that make you a large manufacturer? Sounds good, my mind is open. What will John Hyatt do with all that twp116? Just kidden John.Dont just sit there say something.What did someone tell you not to post when you drink?Just kidden.

My mind is deffently open,plenty with the info you stole up a twp guy. Ken that is so not like you!!! J

Hey Jeff, how goes it. My business plan is to stay within high end hardware stores and lumber yards. My company will not be large because I won't be selling to Home Depot, Lowes or even the big paint retailers.

Jeff, when I talk about the companies like Cabots or what have you not willing to take a risk you have to consider where they sit in the market place and the scale of their productions. They might spend $20,000,000 advertising and placing a new product. That doesn't include actual lab costs, R&D and run cost for production. They have to answer to stockholders. Not everyone is like the people on this site. Almost every one of my customers from this site is educated, higher income demographic. Those companies need a product for the masses. That leaves a nice little gap in the market place for a company to come along and fil what has been a missing niche. I could hand over the formulation to Wolman's tommorow and they would shake my hand and file it under "when pigs fly". It just doesn't suit their model.

Last fall and this spring I applied Cabots Autstralian timber oil on my 2nd story ipe deck. The color and treatment now looks similar to the finish of the twp pics taken posted above weeks after treament. I wish my contractor had tilted my deck slightly to encourage more of the 8 months of steady rainfall here near Mt. Hood to runoff and reduce cupping. Now I have a new staircase to the deck. Do I need to RAD the australian timber oil off if I choose to apply TWP? Both the deck and the new stairs? Can I apply 2 coats of TWP weeks apart given that the rain could start here in days or weeks? The deck posts and side rails are cedar. What can you all recommend to match the 2nd growth cedar to the treated ipe color? Will I be applying TWP annually if I want to keep the nice red ipe finish? Thanks for any help on this.

You should definitely get what remains of the Aussie Oil off of there before appllying the TWP. Applying two coats of a penetrating oil weeks apart is avery bad idea. One wil cure and the other will sit on top of it. If you are going to put two coats on it should be done wet on wet..at the most with a few hours betwen coats.

Well,

For those of you who were reluctant and willing to give up on TWP #516 in favor of TWP 116 or god forbid another non-TWP product...I ahve good news...as one can see from my previous post I mentioned I was overly cautious in applying only ONE coat of TWP #516 to my IPE deck which weathered for one complete year and was treated with pressurepros RAD system.....I should have considered my deck "old" wood not "new" wood (can states one coat for new wood).....you can check out the NEW pics here where I applied TWO coats of TWP #516 to a hip wall planter....and you can see the rich deep color Jon Hyatt talks about....some important differences I noted from the previously stained deck

1. First coat was hand rubbed on and second coat applied with a brush (deck was single coat with lambswool applicator and not much "working in" - ie went over the area 2-3 times because wood really soaked it in)
2. Deck only had barely 26 hrs to cure in 90 degree heat before we had sizable rain....planter had over a week at 75 degrees before rain

The planter has not faded at all to my perception and brings out the deep rich hues of the IPE ....pictures can be seen at the link below...hip wall planter pics towards the end and represent two coats....

John you the mon!!!!

I was in a quandry as to what product to use after our ipe deck was completed. We followed the recommendation of the guys at Advantage Trim and Lumbar - Messmer's Hardwood. I was lucky to find a Project Select brush that had threads in the end for a pole so that I was not brushing on my hands and knees for the 6 hours that it took to complete. As easy as it was to apply, I am still excited about the prospect of a product that will last 400% longer - Ken. Also, by spring I will need to attend to our cedar posts that are part of our deck.

I'm jealous. That is truly beautiful, char. What a great deck.

Thank you. I'm grateful to people who are working on ways to maintain the beauty of wood. These threaads introduced me to ipe. I will keep watching for news of your new product this spring.

hey sweet11395, you still around?? I was wondering if you ever got around to doing your second coat on the entire deck and how it came out.

g2morrow,

sorry for the delay...I haven't been checking back often now that it is wintertime and deck finishing is on hold for most people.....as to your question of the 2nd coat on the deck....no I have not applied it....I got the first one down as you know and then was finishing construction of the hip wall planter with doors and custom forged hinges.....once I saw the deck "weathering" I knew it needed the second coat and put two coats on the planter to see the difference....the planter looks awesome and then the New Jersey weather was too unpredictable and too cold at nights to apply the second coat to the deck so I was just waiting till spring...you can see what a second coat does by looking at the link to my webshots photos in the previous posts.

Side Note>> About the same time I got a Gal of the 516 and did the out back of the Shop Test, ipe 1x6 with four coats. It took three days for the fourth coat to set up completly I was really pushing the stuff like I did the 116 in the beginingNot Bad! no lifting,no pealing, and the ipe has a slight sheen to it. J

awesome! thx guys!

I'm obviously waiting till spring before I do anything. I'll see if pressurepros new product is available then or I'll go with the TWP 116 (if i can get it)or at the very least TWP 516.

thx again
-Geoff

What is "ipe"? And, as the spring restoration season approaches, what are the most current recommendations for cleaning and sealing products and procedures for pressure treated wood decks, railings, and stairs? Thank you.

Deckman.. check out my site.. that is what this post has been referencing. We have a sealer for ipe and other exotics that we have been testing for a few years and it is being packaged for homeowners now. It is going to be released in early april. The product is called WoodZotic and it will outperform everything on the market currently. I don\\\'t make fly by night claims. Many people that read this forum are customers and friends of mine.

I dont know Ken,,Zotic,,,sounds a little Voodo to me,,,,you dont have chicken heads on the can right!!! so funny!! having a good start of season so far?? J

Sweet,

Where did you get those black brackets that your railing system is anchored to the post? Looks great?

WoodZotic. I don't even own a deck and I've wet my pants with excitement!

Seriously though, Doesn't something like this need to be applied to both sides of the decking to prevent cupping?

What is "ipe"? You should do a search on this forum. There is lots of info.

Great forum!

I have decided to let those cans of Penofin lie dormant in my garage and go with a new product.

I was considering TWP as George and Eddie at East Teak recommend. For me that is going to the dark side as I believe once you go for the sealer there is not turning back!

Then the "Zodic" appears!

Im looking at saving labor so this is very appealing!

Quick question for both Obi Won and Darth TWP: Can I mop off the excess with a sponge mop instead of getting non hands an knees with Rags?

With "Zodic", will I need two coats to get started?

Can I spray on TWP on my Ipe Furniture and wipe off with rag?

Ken, your saying we can use "zodic" on wood just a few hours after "Rad" treatment???

When is the "Zodic" site going to be ready?

Bottom line is more competition means more choices!

Thanks to all again for the great info on this site!

pstrme,

sorry for the delay...first time this spring I've visited the board....the black brackets I got from LOWES when I got my DecKorator ballusters....I believe Deckorators was also the manufacturer of the brackets. I found them to be very useful and allow a tight secure fit.

Is the WoodZotic or the TWP 516 appropriate for redwood decking? Or is there another recommended finish for redwood? I live in a rainy climate that doesn't get very hot in the summer.

Still wondering what the best finish is for redwood decking...any advice?

Nessas, give it a break already!!!! post your question as new.

I havent done a Redwood deck in 10 years but when I did my last one I used twp 116.

Now what is the Best!!!!! ghessssssssss I already said I was done with these outdoor finish things. There is one Smart Lady posting now a days over here with a good lot of info on this site, here is hopeing She dosent make a mistake to suffer the hell fire.

Hang in there Girl!!! J.