gorilla x,

The percentages you have are reasonable.

Looks very, very good.

Would it be possible to make that final payment of 10% due at pool school OR whenever a punch list is completed to your satisfaction, whichever comes later? I'm just thinking that if you've got a couple of items that need adjustment, re-doing, or whatever, that under your plan you're committed to paying the last payment at pool school and will have nothing to entice the PB to get those last items taken care of. Just a thought...

Make sure that under no circumstances you pay them the milestone payment till they have completed the milestone to your satisfaction. Do not let them give you any excuse for a delay in any stage and ask for partial payment.
Many of us learnt a very costly lesson with Hallmark pools in San Diego.

--Scal

Our payment schedule is as follows
10% down
40% after steel
40% after tile
10% -250.00 before plaster
final 250.00 upon completion

Although the proposed compensation isn't unreasonable I wouldn't be certain that your builder will go for it.
My normal collection is 70% at gunite completion, 25% at deck completion, and 5% at pool completion.
If a buyer asks for modified terms I'll move 10% from gunite to decks. The reason that the agreement is front heavy is to deliver the capital necessary to handle the invoices which are generated from excavation, steel, gunite, plumbing, electrical, equipment, and tile and coping. It takes almost every penny of the 70% to pay for these invoices.

See ya,
Kelly

I pitched, but the PB did not go for it... it was a stretch anyway, but I tried.

-Gorilla

FWIW, your plumbing will complete before gunite short of connecting all the parts together on the pad.

I understand the builders wanting a greater percentage up front for the invoices, but how often is EVERYTHING on site when that check is cut?

I'd cut 70% at gunite provided every piece of equipment is on-site. Rarely is that done around here. You've got $1500 in lights and your supposed to pay that up front when they never hit the pool until the day of plaster?

What makes it nice in Arizona is the fact the state? mandates how much and at what stage payment is due.

To this day I still fail to understand why the payment schedules are so heavily weighted up front.
I am billed by all my suppliers in the construction industry 2% 10th/net 30.
So is that every contractor around here hasn't negotiated simple and standard payment terms with their subs and suppliers? If not why not?
You would think a reputable pool contractor would have 30 days minimum with suppliers, why not just offer a fair draw schedule and finish the pool on time?

Just in case you have not signed yet, here is our pay schedule. I thought it was pretty reasonable.
$250 at contract
$500 Upon Permit
5% Excavation and Steel
30% Shell (Shot in Place)
10% Backfill and Plumb
20% Deck Install and Topping
10% Pool Plaster
20% Screen Room Completion
5% (Less initial $750) Upon Completion of Pool School

This whole process is really beginning to stress me out! I am not certain that I am going to live long enough to enjoy the pool!!! We are applying for permits on Thursday. Good Luck!!!

quote" To this day I still fail to understand why the payment schedules are so heavily weighted up front "quote

Let me copy a sentence from my earlier reply to this thread.

quote" The reason that the agreement is front heavy is to deliver the capital necessary to handle the invoices which are generated from excavation, steel, gunite, plumbing, electrical, equipment, and tile and coping. It takes almost every penny of the 70% to pay for these invoices. "quote

Pool construction contractors, like myself, don't use our money to build the pool. We use the buyers money for that. We do this because if the buyer flakes on the payment schedule we're not behind. I've never had to file suit against a title company that held my money in escrow until after completion when the pool was mortgaged, the money was guaranteed after inspection. If a buyer pays gunite but can't pay the balance I can't sue them until I complete the pool, all I can do is delay the process of construction. I've had buyers from all walks of life ask for extended terms after the construction began because they weren't financially able to make the compensation due me for many various reasons. My obligation of the contract is simple, construct a working swimming pool, I have no basis for suit unless I've delivered a working swimming pool. This is just as equal as the basis for a suit a buyer has is if his builder failed to deliver a working pool.

quote" I am billed by all my suppliers in the construction industry 2% 10th/net 30. So is that every contractor around here hasn't negotiated simple and standard payment terms with their subs and suppliers? If not why not?
"quote

I'm curious, do all your service providers extend you such gracious terms too?

I get the same terms from my supply houses, but my subcontractors invoices are due upon presentation. I pay all invoices received before Tuesday at 5 on Friday whether or not I've been paid on that particular job.

repair guy,
I'm shocked that your taking a buyers side on the draw schedule. Perhaps in your area things are done in a different order. I, and all of my good competitors, plumb and wire a pool complete prior to decking. The companies, in my market, that stub plumb/wire pools are the ones that are on COD with the subs and supply houses.

Note to all readers,
Many of you may find this hard to believe after all the anti pool construction things you may have heard or read about. Good pool builders get burned more by buyers than buyers get burned by the bad pool builders.

See ya,
Kelly

70% at gunite is utter BS. At gunite you have not paid decking, equipment, plaster, coping, electrical subs. Even IF you had paid materials you are trying to say that labor + your margin is only 30%?. Please try to convince me you construct pools at less than 30% margin? Also at Gunite the homeowner has not received any lien releases for any of your subcontractors so it is impossible to know if they have been paid. Buyers get burned far more often from builders! Its called a property lien. Buyer can not sell their home until you are paid. If you do not deliver the product we do not have that luxury. Do you pay for car parts while they build your car? I work for a large construction firm and I can picture our customers face when we request 70% payment at 35% milestone progress. The payment schedule gives you an immediate glimpse of the contractor your dealing with. Heavy up front cost is an indication of a poorly run business. But hey if you can get away with it best of luck to you.