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Poolinar's New Pool Build

Posted by poolinar (My Page) on
Mon, Nov 2, 09 at 20:23

Well after a few months of planning we finally broke ground on our new pool. I like many others have benefitted greatly from all of the great advice on GW. We still have a few final decisions to make on colors, stones, and even have some flexibility built into the contract on equipment choices so feel free to offer suggestions if you have any.

This is going to be a bit of a challenging project on a hillside with a lot of trees. The backhoe is scheduled tomorrow, so we should see a lot of dirt starting to be moved tomorrow. The weather is supposed to hold for us all week, which is good because it's been a very wet Fall and delayed our start up to this point.

Pool 17.5 x 37
3-6' Deep
647 sq ft.
3 inlets
2 skimmers
2 8" main drains
3 cascade waterfall fountains
Plaster - River Rok
Coping - Flagstone
Deck - 900 sq ft, Pea Gravel/washed aggregate
Walls and Columns - Block with a Centurion faux stone veneer

Equipment Pad - 4' x 7', 4' below pool level
Cleaner - Polaris 380 BlackMax
Sand Filter - Pentair Triton TR100
Control - Pentair EasyTouch 4 Function
Salt Chlorintor - Pentair IC40
Pump - Pentair Intelliflo VF
Lights - 1 Pentair IntelliBrite Pool light and 1 Spa light
Heat Pump - to be added later
Fireplace - ISOKERN 36" Standard
Pool Cover - Safety mesh

Here is the design that was done by GW member Chris (sceadu). There may be some slight variations from these images, for example the fireplace will end up looking a little different than the stock design image and we're going to move the swimout from the front edge to the back edge. The colors and finishes will vary of course as well, but overall we are going with this design and we are very excited about it!


And finally, the leaves and several trees are now gone and the digging begins...



Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

With that view I would definitely go for an infinity edge! It looks like it will be nice though.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

That's a beautiful plan!


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Thank you tsunami. Our designer did a great job. I just hope we can do it justice.

The backhoe made a lot of progress today...



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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Poolinar,

WOW is all I can say! That is going to be amazing and beautiful! Can't wait to see the progress!

BTW with your nickname are you in Arkansas?


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Thanks. It's amazing how our back "yard" has transformed in the last few days. PB says he'll start laying steal tomorrow and probably dig the footings for the walls next week.

Yep.... Pool in Arkansas.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Looking good!!!

Keep the pictures and plugs coming :)


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Thanks Chris! It's been a stressful week as things seem to be moving so fast. I still feel like I have a lot of unanswered questions. Here are a few if anyone would like to offer advice.

1) Should I add a step along the whole length of the front of tanning ledge? (Keep in mind the swimout on the front edge of the pool is being moved to the back edge.)

2) What is the proper plumbing size for the Intelliflo pump? PB says he's using 2" and 1 1/2". Will that maximize efficiency?

3) The flagstone coping sample that PB showed me seems to be very rough and looks like it would flake. It's a sandstone. Should I be concerned?


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

The water features may be roughed with 1-1/2" but hook them to a 2" feed. The same goes for the the returns in the pool. If a pool sweep line is being installed, 1-1/2" is fine there too.

On the suction side, I prefer to see 2-1/2 or 3" lines and Schedule 80 nipples on the pump.

Avoid using flex. In wooded areas, termites will attack it in an effort to get to the water in it. They hear it or at least feel it's vibrations. They can't get through Schedule 40 rigid solid core pressure rated pipe though.

Post a close picture of a sample of the stone please,

Scott


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Thanks Scott. I haven't had a chance to talk to my builder yet about the pipe size, but I noticed when I got home today that the pipe has been delivered and it's all 2" and 1-1/2" schedule 40 PVC. I looked through the installation guide of the Intelliflo VF hoping that I could find something in the writing to show to him, but all that I could find was on page 41 that says "For improved pool plumbing, it is recommended to use a larger pipe size." Is there any other documentation that I can refer to?

I'll try to get a picture of the flagstone as soon as I can, but I will have to get back the stone dealer to do it.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Well, the fact that the pump can push over 100 GPM and 1-1/2" pipe can do 45 GPM @ 8 FPM and 2" can do 80 GPM at the same velocity. Pushing more than that creates substantial friction and head loss. Slower moving water through pipes is more efficient.

Look for a friction loss chart for schedule 40 rigid pipe.

The numbers I quoted do not include any fittings with further reduce GPM and increase head loss. The also came from Pentair's current 2009 product catalog.

Scott


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Your project looks fabulous! Have you picked the pool finish yet. We have a similarly wooded area on a slope, and I'm curious as to what was recommended for you?


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man thats going to be one tough pool to keep cleand with all those trees around it


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

If they haven't shot the gunite, get a Legend or Polaris to deal with the leaved and other organics that will drop.

Scott


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We are planning to use River Rok as the plaster finish and use a Polaris 380.


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Scott, here are some sample stone pictures from a local dealer.





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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build - Stone

Obviously, these stones come in various thickness and from large flagstones to these 8" precut. The color is called country french. It's supposed to a hard sandstone. I'm not sure if the top picture is the same as the others. PB left those pieces as a sample from a previous job.

btw - we've had no further progress. PB left to finish a deck on a job that has been too wet to pour because of all the rain that we've had. I expect them to return in the next day or so.


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Poolinar - I can't wait to follow your progress, such a beautiful design and backyard! Arkansas - one of these days I will retire there! Love it!


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Poolinar, We used that stone on a job 5 yrs ago and it has held up well in a yard sloped like yours. We are on the east coast and it was called Arkansas Sandstone. I can send Chris or you photos of the job if you like.


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Thanks, I'm sure these stones are fine, it's just hard for me to see them in their raw form on a pallet and imagine how they can be cut and used to make the clean smooth edge of a pool coping.

I'm not sure what the appropriate way is to share email addresses on this forum. If you have Chris' email, I'm sure he wouldn't mind forwarding them on to me.


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Let me ask you all a question. As we sit here in mid November, my only interest in time is to have this pool done for next Summer's swimming season and I've told my builder that I'm in no hurry because the last thing that I think I would want is for him to finish this thing and then not be able to fill it or turn on the equipment because of sub-freezing temps. My thought also is that why would I want turn start burning my equipment warranty's months before I'm ready to open the pool for the first time.

So, I'm thinking that we should finish this up to a point - guinite, decks/walls and rock work, run the electrical and plumbing lines, but hold off on the plaster and actually setting the equipment until later in the Spring. Does this sound like a wise reasonable approach? Any concerns at all?


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Yup!

Scott


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A little bit of progress this week...


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Well after a fast start it's been kind of like watching paint dry the last couple of weeks. None the less, here is this weeks update.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Very nice design. But I would check on the rebar spacing it looks too spread out. Looks like 12" or more and the back wall of the pool really needs more rebar especially if it is that far out of the ground. Maybe that is normal for your area. But here in the Houston area most builders are putting the steel 8" on center for the rebar for residential and 6" on center for commercial pools. Otherwise looks good.


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Thanks, but I have to give Chris (sceadu) credit for the design work.

And, thanks for the comment. I was concerned about that back wall as well. I talked to my builder this morning and he assured me that they still have some rebar work to do and that back wall will have extra steal in it, and he said it would be about 11" thick.


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Finally dug the footings for the walls today and continued with the steel work.

I found out today that my builder got called in to finish a pool from a local pool company that went out of business, which is why our progress has been kind of slow the last week or so. Of course now we have the holiday weekend so hopefully next week we will get the footings poured and begin building the walls and fireplace.


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It's finally gunite day...


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build Gunite


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Hey, for any of you pool guys that might be reading this thread. I was just reading through some old threads and saw something about watering the gunite shell for the first week. My shell was gunited Wednesday and today is Saturday. My PB hasn't done or mentioned anything about water. What exactly does watering do, or is it necessary?

The weather here has been pretty cold and dry. We had temps in the mid 50's on Wednesday and Thursday, but it has turned colder now. The high today is only supposed to reach the upper 30's.


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I'm not a builder, but we had our shell shot in October. The purpose behind watering, as it was explained to me, is to aid in the concrete curing (which is a process of hardening to full strength, not "drying"). Concrete cures most evenly and reliably in the presence of moisture. Keeping it wet also helps regulate the temperature a bit. We would water ours twice a day when it wasn't raining (which it was... a lot!). A garden hose on a shower setting, drenching everything two or three times per session will do. Some folks use a sprinkler so they don't have to tend it.

Definitely important if the air is dry and no rain. Not usre about how to handle if your weather approaches freezing.


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Hey Poolinar your pool looks great. We're in the middle of an OB pool project in NY. While I'm not a PB, I can offer a basic explanation of the concrete curing process as a civil engineer.

Concrete is a mix of aggregate, cement, and water. Normal concrete uses sand and stone as aggregate, but in the case of gunite, the aggregate is just coarse sand. The cement mixes with the water to form a paste, and that paste functions sort of like glue and fills in the small voids between the aggregate to create a homogenious solid.

Here is the important part: the cement paste doesn't dry, it cures in a process called hydration. The water and cement undergo a chemical reaction to form a solid. In other words, the water stays in the concrete. If the surface of fresh concrete is allowed to dry, then the water in the mix will migrate to the dry surface and evaporate, leaving the cement with an insufficient supply of water for hydration. If the cement can't fully hydrate, then it won't achieve a high compressive strength. It could also be vulnerable to excessive shrinkage, resulting in cracks.

So that is why it's important to keep the surface wet, or covered, while the concrete cures. This is especially important in the case of gunite, because gunite is a stiff mix with a minimum of water in it in the first place.

Concrete achieves about 1/2 of its strength in the first three days or so, depending on the temperature. That is the most important time to keep it wet. But with temperature being cool by you the past three days, I would guess that your cure time will be extended, and you can still do a lot of good by going outside and wetting down every exposed surface of your pool right now. And I would do that several times a day for the next three days. When it dries, wet it again.

Sorry for the verbose response....

John


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Don't apologize for being informational.

Often times gunite, and shotcrete use pea gravel as an aggregate as well as sand.


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Thanks for the advice! I just watered it down the best that could considering there was ice in the hose. I will continue to do so and will be having a conversation with my builder.

Here's a couple more pictures looking back toward the house.


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Really beautiful site and build, BTW. Looking forward to seeing it come together!


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Thanks Bob. I'm hoping all of this is worth it. I was quite happy with our back 'yard' the way that it was. We had just an awesome canopy of trees and a real natural setting, but my wife and kids have been begging for a pool for years and I finally gave in.

Here's some old pictures just to give you an idea of 'the way it was'.

The dogwoods in the lower foreground, gone. The 175 year old white oak and many others, gone. That was a sad day for me...


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Wow! I can understand your hesitation...what a beautiful view! I'm sure in the end, the pool and its surrounding will enhance everything greatly. Our pool is being built on basically a blank space...we have the opposite problem: creating something from nothing.

Here is a link that might be useful: Our Pool Build Thread


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I thought it was probably about time for an update. The weather has been pretty tough. It's been wet and cold with snow and ice. We have thawed out now, but it's very muddy and making things difficult. The tile is now on and they have began placing the flagstone coping.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

wow, that looks so nice! I bet the wife and kiddies are happy now!


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Here's some more pictures....

And a close up of the tile and stone.


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What is the plan for the retaining wall? Paint? Brick? Brick face? Stone veneer?

Scott


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When this all comes together, it's gonna be so pretty. What a relaxing backyard!!


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Thanks for the comments.

Scott, we're going to use a Centurion stone veneer. The color and pattern that we've chosen is English Hacket.


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Love the stone that you picked. It looks great with the tile - they compliment each other very well.

Can't wait to see the progress - keep the pics coming.


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More weather delays.... I'm afraid we're going to be stuck for a while.


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Any updates or pictures of the finished pool? Really anxious to see how it turned out.
Thanks.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Yes! Me too! I'd really like to see the finished product. The design looked awesome!


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I know it's been a long time, but here are finally some updated pictures. It's been a painfully long process and a lot of changes have taken place in my life since this process started, but I won't bore you with the details. The important thing for this site is that it's finally plaster day! The plaster color is River Rok Blue Opal.

Before plaster...

Now plaster...


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AMAZING!!!!!!!! Can't wait to see the finished project. I love the stone you chose for the columns. Can I ask you a few questions? My project begins in less than 2 weeks. Is that exposed aggregate decking you have? I hope so, b/c it looks good and that is what I am getting. How big is your deck? (I am going to try to print your pics to show my PB, b/c I love the amt of space you have). Right now I am set to get 1300 sq ft but can get less or more if needed. Do you know the name and manufacturer of your trim tile? I too will have a flagstone coping and am trying to find a trim tile that looks good. You have a gorgeous back yard setting. I, like another poster, am sitting in the middle of an old field and have to make something out of nothing. Thanks.

Megan


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Yes, it's exposed aggregate and there is only about 900 sq ft. Honestly, I don't even know what the tile is. My builder had some samples and we just picked one out of a stack. I will try to find out for you. Here's a close up picture of it.


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I also want to give an update on the equipment. It's changed slightly since originally posted.

Cleaner - Polaris 280 BlackMax
Sand Filter - Pentair Triton TR100
Control - Pentair EasyTouch 8 Function w/ wireless
Salt Chlorintor - Pentair IC40
Pump - Pentair Intelliflo VF
Lights - 2 Pentair IntelliBrite Pool lights
Heat Pump - Heat Siphon Z575HP Digital
Fireplace - ISOKERN 36" Standard
Deck Lights - 10 Hinkley 58009BZ


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

We filled today with a fire hose... Can't wait to turn on the fountains tomorrow. More pictures coming soon.


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AMAZINGLY BEAUTIFUL is all I can say.


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Thanks Megan. Here are some with the fountains on.


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It came out very nice, love the backdrop.
One suggestion, spray paint the tips of the shears so they blend with the rocks.
Make sure they are very dry, no water sitting inside the lip, just mask around them and give em a squirt.


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poolinar...Congratulations...love the trees and the water features with dry stack stone....unique and eye catching!


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Wow! Your pool and hardscaping are simply fabulous! Thank you for taking the time to post updates and pics on this forum. We break ground on ours next week.


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Thanks for posting the finished pictures. Your pool turned out great and looks absolutely beautiful in your setting! We have a similar back yard that drops off into woods behind the pool, so I've been following your progress from the beginning. I know the challenges of building on a difficult site (including steep slope, trees, and solid rock), but the end results can be breath-taking, like yours.

How do you like the outdoor fireplace? Did you have concerns with its placement in regards to being either too close to the house or overhead trees? Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.


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They still haven't finished the stone work on the fireplace, which is why I haven't included any final pictures of it.

I do have some concerns about the placement, but since we haven't fired it up yet I really don't know if it will be an issue or not. I will try to post a follow up as soon as I can.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Your pool turned out beautiful!


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I have loved watching the progress on your pool. It has turned out absolutely beautiful!! I know you and your family will enjoy it for years to come! Thanks for sharing your information. Again, it is GORGEOUS!


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Thank you all very much. I'm really enjoying it. Still trying to figure out all of the automation options, but really like having the wireless remote for the EasyTouch!

I'll try to post some more pictures as soon as they have finished up the fireplace (had to order more stone) and the final dirt work/clean-up, but it will probably be next Spring now before I take on the rest of the landscaping and put out my new patio furniture. :(

It's already getting too cold to really enjoy swimming and the leaves are starting to fall as well so I'm going to have to get it covered soon. (Pool cover is ordered, but not installed yet.) While I've been pretty pleased with the quality of the work of my builder, his project and time management skills have been absolutely horrendous!


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wow, it's really coming along, congratulations! I love the color of the river rok and also how the landscaping blends. Can't wait to see the fireplace. Spring is fine, the anticipation is half the fun!


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I can't seem to see you pictures, and I'm very interested in seeing the river rok blue opal as that is one of the colors we are considering. Can you re-post pixs?


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My appologies on the pictures... I was doing some maintenance on my hosting site. As promised here are some updated pictures of the fireplace.


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Thanks! I really like the color of the blue opal. Your whole project is really gorgeous!!!


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Yesterday I finally got the cover installed. This is a Merlin Smart Mesh.


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RE: Poolinar's New Pool Build

Hi there, just curious how you like the river rok color you chose, blue opal. I am so torn between the blue opal and baha sand at the moment and need to make a final (finally) decision within the next 2 days. I really like both colors, was leaning more towards baha sand but in some pictures it appears to have a green tint. Does the blue opal have any green at all? From your pics its doesnt. Your backyard is absolutely gorgeous, enjoy every second if it this summer.


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