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Help with Freeze Protection

Posted by ukmatt (My Page) on
Sat, Nov 27, 10 at 9:14

Hi,

I hope everyone is enjoying their Holiday weekend with their friends and family!

We have a Pentair-equipped pool with Easytouch controller and a multi-speed pump. The 4 speed pump has the following four speeds configured:
1. Freeze protect (500)
2. Pool (2000)
3. Cleaner (3250) - the cleaner has a booster also.
4. Spa (3450)

Both the Pool circuit type and the Spa circuit type have freeze protection turned on.

The issue is that when the pump cycles from pool freeze protect to spa freeze protect it switches RPM to the Spa mode (so up to full speed). As the equipment pad is on the other side of the wall from our bedroom I can sometimes hear the pump.

I basically have two questions here:

1. As the pool mode operation sends some water into the spa and some to the pool (the spa spills over to the pool), do I need to have freeze protection on the Spa circuit or will pool mode suffice (I live in Houston so we don't get long hard freezes, just heavy frost and the odd freeze)

2. If the answer to (1) is yes, am I missing a setting on the Easytouch to make it stick to the 500rpm speed in both pool and spa freeze mode?

Thanks
Matt


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

Matt, the answer to your question one is not a simple yes, and is most likely a no. There are also suction lines, blower lines, jet lines and return lines to be considered for you pool.
I would consider changing the speed configuration labels to low (500)
Medium (2000)
medium high (3250)
High (3450)

Set your spa speed to the lowest setting and kick it up from your remote when desired. These settings can allow you to have 4 controllable speeds from the while in spa mode. Considerations need to be to set low speed to a high enough setting so that it will fire your heater if desired and your chlorine generator for production.
Everyone is talking about being green and your spa is not going to heat any faster at 3450 than at 1200 rpms.
also you might find that there are times where you want a lower speed from the spa jets and other times where you want full kick.

Here is a link that might be useful: Bottomless Pools


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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

500 is too low a speed to begin with in the freeze protect mode.

The idea is to have sufficient flow so the equipment and lines do have issues. The pool sweep pump needs more flow for proper operation and 500 won't normally cut it. It wants more water so it won't strain.

This pump should come on during the freeze protect mode as should the blower unless the air line self clears due the spa jets venturi action.

I agree with bottomless as to the spa speed. However, even at 1200 rpm, there may not be enough suction generated to clear the spa jets air line.

@bottomeless,

It is quite apparent that you are quite knowledgeable and will be a valuable contributor. No doubt the others contributors feel similarly there but request that going forward, you not add your company's website link. None of the other builders do it either as it is considered spamming, something we strongly discourage here.

I do encourage you to modify your profile to allow an email to be sent to you from a user. It help keep the bots at bay.

Thanks!

Scott


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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

Scott,

Thanks for the input. I have to admit I am a little unclear on a couple of the points you're making.

You mention 500rpm not being enough for the pool sweep but I am not sure I understand. The Easytouch owners manual states that the pool cleaner should not need freeze protection as it gets enough water flow from the pool freeze protection.

You also reference normal operation for the pool sweep - as I run at a much higher rpm during the day during cleaning isn't that nortmal operation?

As a general point (not in response to your comments), I am sure I must be missing something here. I would happily run freeze protection at 750 or 1000 rpm to be honest. The issue is that the spa mode protection seems to only operate at the full speed for the spa circuit.

Any ideas?

UKMatt


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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

You sort of answered the question in your comments. You do not have a hard freeze. There are considerations to make. You have to realize that the pump has it's own freeze protection and it is merely to warm the drive. It is about 400rpm and is not for the vessel freeze protection, it is for self preservation. I have an IntelliFlo and it has been running all night here is Southern California for about a week now as it has been consistently 25-32 degrees all night. Are we in a hard freeze area? No. I have no worries about my system freezing hard to point of damage as we are not in a freeze more than a few hours. Even at 400 rpm, the IntelliFlo has enough flow to overflo my spa which sits 6' above the pool level. It's sufficient and annoying at 2am but it protects the pump. You cannot override the pump freeze protect without turning the pump off.

As the Easytouch is designed to rotate between pool and spa in freeze mode every 15 minutes, if you assign freeze to SPA as you did, it will take the pump RPM from SPA. I'd suggest assigning freeze to SPILLWAY and not SPA. This will retain the POOL rpm and still circ the spa. You will lose the freeze protect on the spa suction line but it is a compromise.


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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

Sorry R-Guy. I disagree. We don't want the spa suction left stagnant. It needs to move too.

In most situations, at 4-500 revs, the amount of flow making it through to the sweep booster isn't enough, IMHO. Even a two speed on low isn't enough.

Given the homeowner has an Intelliflow, depending on the plumbing, I might be convinced that the pool pump, set to a high enough high flow might be sufficient and not require the booster being turned on.

Not being there and having direct access to the environment is certainly a handicap to offering more definitive advice.

Scott


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RE: Help with Freeze Protection

Thanks guys.

I guess I'll live with what I have - when freeze protect is on pool mode (at 500rpm) that is enough to push water over the spillway.

I may mess around with the spillway suggestion to see if I can eliminate my high speed freeze protect on the spa.

To the poster that suggested changing the speeds - that won't work with the way the Easytouch works (as far as my admittedly limited knowledge goes) - you assign an rpm speed to each of the four named speeds and then you assign a named speed setting to each circuit.

If I wanted to vary the speed I would have to keep re-assigning speeds to the circuits - there isn't a way to ad hoc change speeds from the remote.

UKMatt


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