If you are considering the Intelliflo, you should go with the Pentair controller. Why, because right now, until another manufacturer comes up with the technology, Pentair is it when it comes to this type of pump. It works best with their controller. Easy Touch or Intellitouch. It simply plugs in to communicate. If you go with Jandy or whoever, you will need an interface. Why bother when you have the luxury of not doing a retrofit?

The pump will do all you need. But, if you're plumbed for two pumps you are pretty much out of luck unless you have mondo suction and return lines to power 10 jets with one pump. The Intelliflo will do it but not well without the ability to move the water down those types of lines.

A standard program will run a specific speed to activate your SWG flow switch and another program for circulation or sweeping. The solar will also take a specific program which is all very standard. If you stick with a non Pentair controller, the interface will allow up to four separate programs of varying speeds and it would be wired into your relay for activation with whatever remote you have.

How long due you run your pump now? If all things were the same just changing your current pump for the intelliflo would save you about $600 per year. This is based on 10hr run time at $.30 KWH. The more your energy costs the bigger the savings. But with the SWG and solar you may need to have longer run times than before thus cutting into the savings but still way ahead of the game.

We had been running the pump for 6 hours/day.
Assuming we do go with the Intelliflo, should we go with the more expensive verison, or would the 4 x 160 suffice for our scenario? Thanks!

Use the 4x160 as there is no need to use the higher cost version. Versatility, energy savings, noise level of this pump are all pluses over competitors product.
Also check with SDG&E web page as they are offering rebates on the pumps.
Also repair guys comments on using the Pentair controller, in your case the EZ Touch 8, is right on. I strongly recommend it. I work for Pentair, so my opinion is a bit slanted, but you are much better off warranty wise to go with the whole system: pump - filter and heater than mixing mfgs.
Both Jandy and Pentair offer 3 year warranty on a system verse only a one year when it is not a system.

Lastly, most builders in San Diego use Pentair and they do for plenty of good reasons.
Deek

You can realize a near equal amount of electrical savings by utilizing a Jandy 2speed or Whisperflo 2speed pump and save coin on your equipment purchase.
I guess that I've yet to be swayed in the direction of a pump that cost me almost 1300 bones when I can get a 2 speed for much less money.
I agree with Deek, always purchase your equipment as a full set (heater,filter,motor,controller) and you'll get the longer warranty.

See ya,
Kelly

Not a chance. A two speed is a reduction of 50% in rpm but not a 50% reduction in wattage. Decrease the FLOW by 50% and your wattage will decrease way more than what that 2 speed will do at 1725 rpm. Full throttle pumps ot even half throttle will save over a one speed but the price on the variable drive is well worth it if you plan to be in the house for any length of time. On a system without flow needs of SWG, or a lot of sweep time, you can see massive savings by running at 25-28 gpm or 400-500 rpm. A two speed simply cannot do this.

Add the benefits of a variable drive in the other areas and the purchase is even more attractive. The pump cannot run dry which means there are significant savings in repairs down the road. You can't say that for a two speed. The pump offers suction blockage protection which a two speed cannot do. The pump freeze protects itself as well. The pump protects the filter media when there is a lack of maintenance in cleaning. Not an option with a to speed. I guess it's all in how you look at it. Pay the repair guy now or pay him later.

I believe the original posting was which we liked better, Jandy or Pentair.

I much prefer Pentair equipment. It is also what I would put in a new pool or remodel. I have found them to have a higher reliability. One diff though, I prefer Ray-Pak gas fired heater with electronic ignition over millivolt/pilot lit.

I am the repair guy.

Kelly,
I have read many contributions you have given to the general public on this board. You deservedly have a great following and your thoughts are usually right on. You have been a great help to many on this board.

I just have to take issue with your above post for several reasons.

You obviously do not live in California nor do you write your check every month to SDG&E. If you did you would not have posted what you just did.

I honestly do not care what eann buys as far as equipment - the reason is I think I know who the builder is (there are very few builders in San Diego that use Jandy) and if it is who I think it is I do not want him buying our equipment for several reasons. Pentair is far better off letting Jandy have that account.

My issue with your post is how could you possibly recommend a 2 speed? Anybodys including Pentair WhisperFlo, on the pool eann described. The bottom line a pool with 2 skimmers and a salt chlorinator at low speed is never going to work properly for long - You cannot get enough flow. The filter dirt will shut down that flow so quick that the homeowner will be forced to go to high speed - losing any energy savings. Pumps do not even prime well at low speed - almost all have to primed at high speed for several minutes - again losing energy savings because they have to prime at high speed.. Never mind the switch used in 2 speed motors that shift speeds from high to low is barely adequate as best - it will not last long with all the switching. With 2 speeds you have no choices in speeds other than high and low.

Secondly I think your pricing is way out of whack. Eann was asked to use the IntelliFlo 4x160. I think you are in the pool business and can easily see your cost difference between a 2 HP 2 speed and a 4x160 - see PWP flyer.

Your cost is not 1300 bones !!
Your cost is 718 bones !! If you are being quoted 1300 bones you are being taken advantage of and are not doing your pricing homework.
Your cost on a Jandy 2.5 HP Stealth P/N SHPM2.5-2 speed) should be about 240.00 less than a 4x160.

You also do not have any concept of what people pay in San Diego for energy. I am attaching below SDG&E room by room guide on energy costs - go to page 4 and look at a 2HP. These people pay between .28 cents to .47 a kilowatt for energy to run a pump per hour. LetÂs split the difference and say the average is .37 cents an hour. For 8 hours a day times 30 days for this one pump these people pay 89.00 a month minimum for one pump. Most of these pools have more than one pump.

Finally and I have said this many times already on this board homeowners are getting this way before the pool professionals - because they foot the bill. The train has left the station on variable speed and is not the future but is the now.

Lastly the savings using a 4x160 is easily 50% for several reasons: rare earth magnets Finally and I have said this many times already on this board homeowners are getting this way before the pool professionals - because they foot the bill. The train has left the station on variable speed and is not the future but the now.

Lastly the savings using a 4x160 is easily 50% for several reasons: magnets in the pump reducing AMP draw, versatility in RPM's (305 speeds verse 2 speeds) and finally a product that is set to the speed that is needed to do the job and not be wasteful- not like the past and guess present in certain instances where the pump was plunked in and people had to live with it because that is what it is. Noise level, which again are important to people in California and elsewhere due to the lot sizes are tremendously quieter.

Again on 2 speeds: example at 40 GPM's at low you will use about 300 watts - a 4x160 will use about 180 watts - thatÂs 40% savings on low speed alone.

Again on 2 speeds: example at 40 GPM's at low you will use about 300 watts - a 4x160 will use about 180 watts - thatÂs 40% savings on low speed alone.

Kelly  not mad just trying to keep the facts between the ditches.

Deek

Sorry - messed up on some of the posting and did not finish some of the reasons for energy savings when using 4x160's.

"Lastly the savings using a 4x160 is easily 50% for several reasons: magnets in the pump reducing AMP draw, versatility in RPM's (305 speeds verse 2 speeds) and finally a product that is set to the speed that is needed to do the job and not be wasteful- not like the past and guess present in certain instances where the pump was plunked in and people had to live with it because that is what it is. Also the motor is rated for 6HP - we use a 3HP impeller and are not even close to taxing the motor.

Noise level, which again are important to people in California and elsewhere due to the smaller lot sizes. The IntelliFlo are super, super quiet. Almost anyones 2 HP is loud and some makes are much louder than others.

Thanks everyone for all the advice in reagrds to the intelliflo. I think we will go with the 2 x 160 with the Easy Touch 8 (with the SWG).

I have a question concerning lights with the Easy Touch system, however. My husband would like to go with the color changing lights. Would the colorlogic lights be compatabile with the Easy Touch system, or would we need to use the Intellitouch? I'd much prefer to use the lower cost Easy Touch if it will meet our needs.

Also, I will ask our pool builder (really our "consultant" as we are paying the subs directly) what pricing he can get for the Pentair equipment, however, I looked at the website www.poolsupplydeals.com and they seem to have some good deals. Has anyone used this online source before?

Thanks very much!

A few weeks ago Pentair released their version of LED lights - they have all the bells and whistles of ColorLogic and produce more lumens and diffuse the light better due to the lens design.
All information on the light is on the pentair web page.
EZ Touch works just fine with these lights and there is no need to move up to the InteeliTouch.
Enjoy your pool and good luck.
Deek

As California goes so goes Texas and the rest of the nation eventually. Lo Nox heaters , quiet pumps and air blowers etc.
Intelliflo is selling like hot cakes in Socal, here in North Texas, not so much. I have sold maybe 6 4x160 and two
of the higher ones. Dallas branches seem to be moving somewhat more.
Since I work for a wholesale dist I wont' post wholesale prices here,but we must be paying a bit more for it here than they are in Socal.
My 2cents

What are the new Pentair lights? Are these the SAm/SAl lights? If so, the website says that these are halogen lights. From reading a few other posts about lighting, I was under the impression that the LED lights worked better(are brighter) than halogen for darker pool? Is this correct? Thanks!

IntelliBrite is LED. SAM/SAL is not. The key to the Pentair version is the lens design and of course what it is capable of synching with an IntelliTouch.

Well husky, these good ole boys are hard to teach new tricks sometimes. I remember when sheer decents came out and were 500.00 alot of builders said, heck I can make that!
They couldn't. Sheer decents work, except on a really windy day, which is most of the time......lol
There are some rumbleings about Austin passing a law requiring two speed pumps on new pools by 09 or 2010. Some
builders, my largest btw, are taking a proactive approach and installing them now. So, we brought them in. With 20 inches of rain in June, we still have a bunch of them. Things are picking up now, and we may enjoy a late season.
PDA is a great controller and my largest builders install it.
You guys know the intelliflo has an on board computer, and can stand alone, right? So, you could install it for someone that wanted it and they could run everything else with thier PDA.
I haven't had anyone do that yet, but the Pentair guy said you could. There may be issues with that I'm not thinking of, but when I started in the pool biz a time clock and air switch was for high rollers........lol
TC
colt

Someone said here that this pump is the greatest thing to hit the equipment pad ever. I liken it to that and for the arguments of those guys who don't like change here is a thought.

Would you do all your installs or repairs in copper plumbing today? The application of PVC to pools in place of copper is perhaps the last, greatest, most significant thing to happen to pools before the variable drive pump has hit us now. Consider the labor to install copper, the cost and the know how.

Copper is up about 1500% since then. PVC, maybe 100%. Electricity will be too at the rate we're going politically. It would take hours to install a filter, now maybe an hour if that. Your average guy could not work with copper unless trained. Today, my 7 year old can plumb PVC.

Pool companies saying they do not embrace this technology are going the way of the dinosaur. They will be out of business. They are the types who are selling you technology that will be gone in 2-3 three years. I liken them to above ground spa dealers who charge 10k for a spa that's worth about 2k and will be obsolete in 5 years. Believe me, try to repair some of those and actually find parts.

At least the variable drive pumps have a $ benefit from day one. They save and they are good for the future generation. They are cutting edge and for once they are something in this industry that government officials actually thank us for. You can't say that about your DE filter or non LO NOX heater. Both of which are on the way out. But, for those who refuse to educate themselves, keep selling DE, keep selling one speed motors, refuse to train on new heater technology and keep selling old technology, it is your customers who WON'T thank you later.

I have a 68 Camaro. Sure it's cool to drive it. But, daily it does not make sense without today's technology. No shoulder seat belts, no power brakes, no air bags, gas fumes everywhere, crank windows, non-locking gas cap. Get what I'm saying? Advancements are good things.

quote" when I started in the pool biz, a time clock and air switch was for high rollers........"quote

I'm sitting here LMAO!!!
When I started in this game we plumbed whistlers. They provided more hydro therapy action at the jet than any of todays whiz bang jets with a horse and a half air blower. The problem was the noise. Now I can't hardly remember the last dual timer and AS Relay I installed. Everything has been Aqualink for the past 10 years.

Colt,
I'm curious, do you work for the worlds largest pool wholesaler or PWP? If so please disregard the following.

Deek, are you telling me I can buy a 4X160 from PWP for 718 bucks on their published price list? They, the worlds largest pool distributor, came to town and promised great service and fair prices. On the service aspect they've delivered in spades, but on the fair prices I've had my suspicions for some time now. If you can purchase the 4X160 pump for 200 less it means they're charging me almost 25% more. That equates to a near 40% markup for the distributor. This is way way more markup than normal construction wholesale distributors work for.
My biggest joke with my outside rep when he asks me how I'm doing is "Not only am I smoking more and enjoying it less, but I'm also paying more for service and enjoying it less too"
I haven't bought from PWP since the early 90's and haven't shopped pricing in 10 years but now I'm convinced I probably should.

repairguy,
I don't think I said that the starter of this thread could save as much electricity with a 2-speed pump. I think I said that they could save nearly an equal amount of electricity by utilizing a Jandy 2speed or Whisperflo 2speed pump and save money on their equipment purchase.
I also didn't say that I don't embrace new technology I think I said that I'm sure that these pumps are the way of the future, but in the meanwhile I'll wait for the prices to drop. Please don't attempt to read things in my posts that I'm not saying and then rewrite them to play off of my reply.
FWIW, I quote quite a bit of this new equipment and have placed it into service on quite a few pools. It's awesome stuff!!! But, I'll quote my buyers the actual cost of my setup -vs- your setup and let them make the decision based on their interpretation of whether it is or isn't worth the extra money. This way they won't have me to blame because I told them about the benefits of each.
Don't take my replies as me knocking the product and don't take this as me knocking you. It's just my take on the situation.
BTW, I'm sorry you don't like DE filters. I've always found them to be great filters. My pool is 120000 gallons and is always crystal clear even on short filter run times. I attribute this to my DE filters.

Thanks for you guys input, this thread will go a long way towards enlightening new members contemplating a pool purchase. I saw where Eann is looking to purchase the variable speed online. I'm fixing to go over to that thread and second your advice to steer clear of Internet wholesalers.

See ya,
Kelly

I just spoke with our pool consultant in regards to changing to all Pentair equipment (from Jandy), including the Intelliflo 4 x 160. He says he will get us the pricing and will purchase for us whatever we want, BUT, he thinks for our situation there is no need to get the variable speed pump since we have a separate pump for the spa. He says we should use a 1 HP pump for all the pool functions (filter, heat, swg, solar), and that the lowest speed of the Intelliflo won't be lower than 1 hp...am I missing something here??? I did an energy savings cost calculation on the Pentair site. Based on our average right now of $.18/kwh with SDG&E, we should save approx $470.00/year with the Intelliflo-that's pretty significant to me. Thanks!

IMO, I'm no fan of separate pumps for the spa unless you have more than 6 jets. I think you posted that you 10 jets. Do you have multiple drains in the spa or a single suction line. I'd suggest that you have a minimum of two 2" pipes or preferably two 2 1/2" pipes for suction.

If I were constructing your pool I'd use 12 spa jets on two separate loops of 6 jets each. A 2-speed 2 1/2HP pump for pool/spa to share and a 2 1/2hp pump for the separate spa loop. In addition to this you'd have two QT blowers.
I'd utilize a Jandy PDA PS6, Purelink power center, 1400 SWG cell, and either a CL580 multi-cartridge or DEL 60 filter. This delivers the most bang for the buck spent on equipment.
If you go with Pentair just swap the pumps to 2 speed Whisperflo's and use an EZ Touch 8. However, I disagree with your consultant and do agree with Deek and Repairguy. A 4X160 will save a lot more electricity than a single speed pump and slightly more than a 2-speed. I don't think you need it on your application but only you can decide if it's worth the extra coin.
I'm curious about your spa, did your builder stub out all the jets on a single loop and if so what size pipe or pipes do you have for spa suction? This will make the biggest determining factor on the effectiveness of your hydrotherapy action at the spa jet inlet in the wall.

See ya,
Kelly

Yes, I'd argue the pool builders claim on the 1HP thing. We just put an IntelliFlo 3.2 on a pool/spa in Fallbrook today, SDG&E. We took out a 2.5HP 2 speed (bad motor) which was consuming 2750 watts at full rpm which is 3450 x6 hours per day. That is about 21,000 watts per day or 21 kw per day. With your quote of .18 and that seems a bit conservative, that is almost $4/day or $120.00/month.

We set the new pump to run for 10 hrs/day at 25gpm and the pump us drawing 196 watts. That is slightly less than 2 kw/day or about .40 a day to run and $12.00/month. When the solar runs, it pulls 396 watts which is not much more.

That is way outperforming a 1HP pump.......

Husky, um.........it's not PWP.
If your in Dallas / Ft Worth that should answer your question.
And, we sell alot of pf1202t's and as-2-95 to this day.
Most packages go out with a computer.
I started in the biz in 1977.
We sold skimmers without lids and frame because you had a choice of tan or white.
We sold the swimquip xl-6 and xl-7 as wet ends, and you picked your motor.
Starite duraglas was the first "uprated" pump we sold.
And the rest of this for another forum.

Kelly - saw your post on the internet buying - I agee 100% with you. For a mfg. its is a nightmare dealing with people who bought strickly on a price and now have no idea how to install it correctly. Some of this stuff is dangerous if not installed right!! Please support a professrional pool company when dealing with equipment !! It is well woth it in the long run - heck its well worth it in the short run.

Hope the below attachment is not over the top but and I think it ties into the thread. This was aired publicly a couple of days ago so it is public information. Many of the ABC affiliates around the country are asking us to do interviews on the new technology. Several have been done in other parts of the country already.
Much of this is tied back to utility companies and is supported heavily by the "green" movement.

Anyway it is pretty self explanatory.

Doesn't the 3.2 intelliflo variable make more sense because it has the built in controller. Seems like contollers start at about $250 and up.If you buy the 4x160 and then a 300-400 controller your at the same place....right? I just have the pool with no water features.

gman66,

Yes, it is cheaper to just buy the 3.2 VF if you just want to do basic filtering. My pool doesn't have a spa, so I could have gone this way. I considered this, but opted instead for the Easytouch/IC40 combo. Reasoning was:
1. The ET/IC40 combo was only about $400-600 more than just the IC40
2. I wanted to have some automated control over the valves. I use the ET to toggle between normal filtering and vacuuming (with Hayward Navigator). This way, I don't have to mess with finding an optimal valve position for the vacuum.

In retrospect, I wish I had the PB put in another actuator to switch between the skimmer and the main drain. I'd like to be able to alternate between the two automatically to get the best circulation.

So I assume with the ET and VF your just letting it run on the pump program itself or did you also put in the IntelliCom as the VF is not a direct connection to the ET. Or, did you mean VS 4x160?

Yes, I have the 4x160 and I programmed it myself. The PB and the local Pentair guy weren't much help. He basically set up a high and low speed and nothing else. I had to figure out the rest.