I don't know what IA:806 signifies.

That isn't a lot of deck unless it matches up to existing patio area.

I would upsize the return line, no reason for it not to be 2" (except for the short section that penetrates the pool wall - most fittings are for 1.5").

Don't understand 2" to skimmer but 2.5" split suction (does that mean drain joins skimmer - would be better separately plumbed back to pad).

Don't know about Magna Sweep, read warranty in detail - most claim lifetime, but it turns out not to cover everything.

I don't think the Max E Pro pump comes in variable speed - 2-speed yes, but not variable (variable from that brand would be Intellipro).

Various people have commented that they think the Pentair Intellibrite light does a good job distributing the light from the LEDs. You don't spec brand. I like my Intellibrites, but have not seen others to compare and give specific advice.

If you get the Pentair Easytouch, you don't need the Pentair Controller salt chlorine generator as the Easytouch directly controls the IC-40 salt water chlorine generator.

If in doubt, make sure it's written into the contract - if anything goes bad (fingers crossed it doesn't) the written contract takes precedence. Make sure they provide lien releases from subcontractors and material suppliers (concrete, etc) after each draw and before you give more $$$.

If you are going to use a variable speed pump or a pump that is 2 HP or more,I would make the main return loop from 2-1/2" to the three 1-1/2", not all 1-1/2" pipe also.

Scott

Lbridges: This is my first time through the process, so I'll try to clarify what I think. I'm guessing the IA = Internal Area. We have an existing patio of about 300sqft that will also be included. It's not a ton of decking, but we don't really want much more than what we already have.

I will ask about the split suction. Not sure if someone else knows what that could mean... If it does mean that the drain and skimmer go to the same pipe, how does that work at the filter? Will they eventually merge into one pipe that goes into the filter, or does the filter have multiple 'ports'?

Scott: Could you clarify what you mean in that sentence? Basically I interpret that I should have 2" piping through out the whole thing.

Thanks for the help!

The return loop has three 1-1/2" ports currently being fed by 1-1/2" pipe. When running a 2 HP pump or greater, this will generate friction due to the velocity in the return pipe, before it branches into the loop that feeds the returns. Make that pipe larger to slow the water velocity and reduce head loss/wasted energy.

The Pentair/Sta-Rite family of variable speed pumps, at full speed, are 3 HP pumps. While you would only rarely need that kind of speed, it does need to be allowed for. A 1-1/2" line won't allow the volume of water the pump will want to push and will cause cavitation in the pump.

The larger line I am suggesting is to feed the loop. The 3 return ports in the pool can still be 1.5" inlets. You might even consider using a 2.5" feeder.

What is the timer for? You have the Easy Touch.

A 1/2" conduit from the house to the equipment pad is too small. Two hots, a common and a ground, all at least #12 wire and likely thicker, will not get through a 1/2" conduit. It would jam. Conduit is cheap so a 3/4 or 1" will be more appropriate.

Scott

Scott,

Thanks so much for the insight. We meet Thursday to hammer out the exact details of the contract and I will be bringing these recommendations with me.

Here's an artistic conception of what out pool should look like. The brown dirt on the side is actually grass, and the rock wall for the planter is existing and something we're hoping to keep... Trying to integrate the pool into our backyard without completely changing it.

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All,

I talked to our pb, and he explained his reasoning for the return loop at 1.5" as this: We'll have 2" plumbing going to infloor and that will provide the majority if not all of the circulation. If we decide to turn on the return loop, it will be at very low volume, so a 2" pipe isn't needed in this case. For pools not doing infloor he makes the loop 2" piping.

Does this make sense?

As a follow up, here are the details on pipe and other technical things from the contract. We haven't signed yet, so can still change.

Pipe Size: 2.5" Main Drain, 1.5" Return, 2" Skimmer, 2" or 2.5" water feature (depending on engineering). To answer lbridges question, the skimmer and drain are plumbed separately.

Steel: #3 rebar 12" on center

Caveat: I'm not a builder, so this is just a consumer opinion.

I believe the typical pool should draw more water from the skimmer than the main drain - useful for circulation and cleaning of surface debris. There are even some who claim drains are "old school" thinking and can be eliminated. Makes a 2-1/2" drain line coupled with a 2" skimmer line not make sense to me. I would suggest both at 2-1/2" but bow to Scott's more extensive experience if he revisits this thread.

In my area the cost difference between a 10' stick of 2" and 1-1/2" is about 50 cents. Since there is no practical cost difference when compared against the larger pool construction costs, there is no reason not to have both in-floor and wall returns to be 2" except at the fitting itself. I have in-floor (but not cleaning) and wall returns and they are both 2" right up until the pipe penetrates the pool shell.

In general flow/pump terms, to prevent cavitation noise and pump wear, the suction side flow capability should be the same or greater than the pressure (in-floor wall return) side. Hence something like 2-1/2" on suction, 2" on return. Note: two 2" pipes together flow about the same as one 2-1/2" pipe, so a 2" drain and a 2" skimmer all the way back to the pad is about like a single 2-1/2" from pool to pad.

Rebar requirements depend on a lot of variables that are local to soil, etc. In my area (virtually 100% sand - Florida barrier island) 12" on center is sort of standard until depths exceed 6 feet.

WRT to the return loop, it should be, IMHO, designed to accept the full load. If the floor system breaks, you may under serve the pool's needs.

I don't like skimmers or drains tied. Every one should be valved for isolation purposes before being fed to the pump.

Skimmer typically grab about 80% of the stuff that hasn't broken the surface tension. Most builders in my area seem to use a one skimmer per 650 sq. foot of pool surface or portion there after formula when deciding how many are needed.

Scott

lbridges: good point about the cost of the pipe. It's not a huge uptick in expense, so what's the big deal, right?
From your sentence about the flow, if I do 2" return, 2" in floor, 2" skimmer and 2.5" drain, that should cover my flow about right it seems. Not that I'm an expert on this, but I'm guessing I'll put the wall return at about 20% just to circulate and the infloor at 80% to do the bulk of water movement/cleaning.

Scott: I'd be interested on your thoughts about what lbridges said about the skimmer. What % would you recommend be sucking there, and what % in the drain? 60/40? 40/60? 50/50? or something else?

Thanks again guys for your thoughts.

Just signed the contract...... Here we go!

you willing to let us know who you went with?

Natural_One - Sure. We went with True Blue Pools in Tempe who we discovered based on the furrysquid's pool build (link below). We got quotes from a couple of the larger builders in the valley (like all newbies I suppose) and a couple more from folks on this board. I now realize you're a PB too but didn't know that at the time we were getting bids... Alas. Though not sure how bad you'd want to make the drive all the way down to Gilbert from Glendale. ;)

So far we're happy with our choice and they've been more than accommodating with our NUMEROUS changes and tweaks throughout the design.

As an update, permitting was submitted on Friday and should be 3-5 business days, so hopefully we can start ripping up the existing yard this weekend... and start excavation next week.

Here is a link that might be useful: furrysquid pool build

Well... This is it. Excavation starts tomorrow. Here are some pics of our backyard as it was and backyard as it is now. Will post more of a giant hole, hopefully tomorrow!

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