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I will answer pool plaster questions

Posted by poolplasterexpert (My Page) on
Tue, Feb 16, 10 at 21:31

For 23 years I was in the swimming pool plaster industry on a national level. My range of experience spans from plaster application to plaster product design and engineering. I know all the plaster product manufacturers, almost all of the pool plastering companies, and many of the pool builders throughout the United States. I am now retired and have no interest in using this forum to promote any one company's brand or services. I will however use this forum to educate consumers about swimming pool plaster and to promote professional swimming pool construction practices. I pledge to check this forum at least once a week to answer questions or discuss related topics. Welcome


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Welcome poolplasterexpert,
Pool finishes are a common and hotly debated topic on this site and there are lots of opinions by owners, builders and service professionals about the wide range of products available.

Nice to have you aboard.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

You need to get in touch with poster of Help! I cant find my pool builder. They got problems


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have a question. Are all plaster problems caused by chemistry as most plasters and the NPC try to make us believe, or are they cause by improper application like I suspect.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I'd like to know how plaster companies can plaster a pool with high water table issues. The lowest I have been able to get the water is about 4 inches and then it fills back up. Since I have a sump pump with a float water has remained at a foot at all times. Thx.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Usually, a dry well is set up before the shell is shot. This allows the water under the shell to be pumped elsewhere. IMHO, it should have been done at the excavation when the high water table was observed. Additionally, a soils engineer should have been consulted.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

They didn't know about the high water table until they dug. Then they did do the dry well. You're right however about the shell being shot too quickly.

What does a soil engineer do? Would it be helpful at this stage? Thanks for the info Scott, it's appreciated. I was told by a different person that has seen our pool, they will punch a hole in a separate location and suck as much water as possible out there and then plaster everything else. At that point they'll see if they can get the water around the outside of the shell down enough to plaster that final hole. After I was told that, hence I posted here wondering if anyone else has seen this or had hard plaster jobs due to ground water.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Worst case, they hook up a pump to the hydrostatic port in your main drain, suck out the water and plaster, remove the pump when filling begins.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Thank you cascade and Scott.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

quote" Worst case, they hook up a pump to the hydrostatic port in your main drain, suck out the water and plaster, remove the pump when filling begins. "quote

ftwpoolgirl, all you need is an applicator with a diaphragm pump to do exactly what Cascade described. I deal with this dilemma all the time down here in SE Texas and own my own. I'll place it into service several days before I'm ready to applicate.

Scott, I can't speak for other builders but can for myself.
"badges, we don't need no stinking badges, and soil engineers, we don't need no stinking soil engineers, LOL!!!

Racket,
quote" I have a question. Are all plaster problems caused by chemistry as most plasters and the NPC try to make us believe, or are they cause by improper application like I suspect. "quote

Your killing me baby!!!

I'll have to enlighten you about the manner I did an SGM product group engineer back in the mid 90's on their Midnight Blue.
"Tell me where the hell is applicator error on a bagged product that was installed on a sunny high 80's day with no chance of rain in the forecast by the same men who've finished thousands of pools."
I told them that these finishes should be started up high on acid with a very low PH. But they said "absolutely not, you'll void your warranty. I'm like "What phucking warranty are you talking about? You tell a guy who's built more pools than you've ever dreamed about or will ever see in person, and now tell me that it was applicator error when all we did was add water to your product in our mixer with no other additives on a perfect day to apply a pool finish. You can tell your employer to take this (insert middle finger here) train.
I've never pushed D-Brite since then and since have only applied it when a buyer chooses it. Guess what, I've now heard that they encourage a low PH startup, How 'bout that, LOL!!!
I drained the peoples pool, gave it a major acid/pressure wash, and started it up a couple of days later. The lady of the house told me that she was shocked because she never expected that kind of behavior out of me but she really loved the new look of the finish. I told her initially that the problem was water chemistry oriented and it was the pool services fault, he said it was my fault and called the local rep out to look at it who sided with him. They flew their man out who said the pool needed to be replastered. All because of a lady who pushed buttons all the way to the top of the corporate chain over a poor looking finish that was just a couple of years old, and a pool guy who saw red and said the only way we'll replaster is if we get paid to do it. We did absolutely nothing wrong and nothing differently than any of our other exposed quartz crystals applications.

Sorry dude, but don't tell me about application error.
Trust me, this is nothing personal to your reply, but I always take comments from people who tell me I did my job wrong personal. Even the experts too, LOL!!!

See ya,
Kelly


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

"Sorry dude, but don't tell me about application error. "

In application, I should have put a disclaimer about the material being defective as well.

I'm not a big fan of low pH start ups. I have seen evidence of them making the plaster "soft" Because the acid seems to decay the cements deeper than a drain and acid wash.


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They knew when they dug. They should have let you know that you needed a dry well (extra $$), over dug deeper, added a gravel bed and a permanent pipe to the surface/ Hook up a pump and say by by water until the pool is filled. The water in the pool would keep the pool from floating. Then the sump is turned off. The line stays for future use, like when it's time for new plaster or if you need to seriously lower the water for diluting.

A local soils engineer will be familiar with local conditions and be able to verify the ground is able to support the pool without moving or what steps need to be taken to ensure it will.

Scott


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Isn't the Engineer liable if the plan does not work? I would think as a builder, you would want an engineer involved. As a home owner, it does not make a difference to me as long as any issues can be fixed and the builder is willing to back his work. If my pool floats, I am going to my builder. If he feels he needs an engineer for any special issues than he should add that to the quote and he can pick someone he is comfortable with. Just like building a home and finding that the foundation is sinking...if you have a builder, he should do everything possible to prevent this. Any special issues or circumstances should be discussed up front and the cost included in the proposal. FTWpoolgirl's lot did not all of sudden sink below the watertable in the middle of the build.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

"Isn't the Engineer liable if the plan does not work? "

Somewhat, but if there is a lawsuit the builder will be named as a defendant as well.

"Any special issues or circumstances should be discussed up front and the cost included in the proposal."

That's a tough one, if a builder sat in your living room and talked about everything that hypothetically could go wrong with a swimming pool, you'd probably never build one. Sometimes you have to cross a bridge when you get to it.

"FTWpoolgirl's lot did not all of sudden sink below the watertable in the middle of the build."

Water table fluctuate, I could drill a monitoring well not find water, come back a few days later, and find water.

I don't think that ground water should trigger a soils report unless there are other mitigating factors. A good builder should be able to handle the water, because we all run into it from time to time.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I use a structural engineer on every job, couldn't get a permit without one. But - HIGH WATER TABLE AND POOR SOILS CONDITIONS ARE NOT THE SAME THING. We deal with water to some degree on most of our jobs but only get a soils engineer if the structural guy is not comfortable signing off.

And I agree with Racket, if I laid out every possible problem we could run into, however remote, no-one would ever build a pool. We deal with issues as they arise and most people are OK with that. I have seen excavations filled back in when conditions dictate that the costs associated with building a suitable support structure for the pool exceed a reasonable budget for the client. Soils conditions in my area vary from yard to yard, you may find completely different conditions in 2 yards on the same street.

We built a pool for a client a few years ago whose yard had a very high water table. It required us to pump ground water for 3 months and build a settling pond system in his yard. It was expensive but we were up front about our costs and he determined that it was worth it.

Water table is something pool builders deal with, simple as that.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

quote" if a builder sat in your living room and talked about everything that hypothetically could go wrong with a swimming pool, you'd probably never build one. ":quote

I agree completely.

quote" We built a pool for a client a few years ago whose yard had a very high water table. "quote

Unfortunately I deal with this on what seems like every third or fourth pool. I've become a master of dealing with every aspect of the game from front end muck outs to tail end diaphragm pumping and occasionally well pointing.
Muckouts, my internet friends, are something you don't want to experience front and center. Unless you really enjoy the most physical workout you've ever participated in.

Racket, you'd be shocked at how durable the Diamond Brite matrix is. Only certain pool finishes will stand up to it, and most pool guys will over acid a pool on a low PH start up. There's a fine line between not enough and to much acid.

I should really apologize about my reply last night.
I got off work shortly after dark and burned about a dozen beers before coming home and getting on the computer.
I had a bit of a buzz, misinterpreted Racket's post, and might have upset our new member plasterexpert. He could have well been the rep I had the confrontation with.
I didn't mean to insult plaster mfg's or their experts of their product line. I just had a major problem with what the guy told me when he blamed the problem on us while I knew it was the pool service company's fault. In our area there are service tech's who know so very little about pools that it's MIND BOGGLING.

Note to all readers,
There's much much more to pool water chemistry than just the chlorine level and PH. I have a good grip but certainly am no expert. But I can tell you this for fact, bad chemistry ruins pool finishes. Caught early enough you can usually salvage them but after years of degradation you can give up on it. And equally, don't call your pool builder a couple of years later and blame him for your problems with the pool finish.
Also, Diamond Brite is good product, I've just held a grudge against them for siding with the pool service and not the guy who's purchased untold 18 wheelers of their product from the local wholesaler.

See ya,
Kelly


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The crazy thing is, we have a few pools at houses that were sitting, empty and neglected while the foreclosure process happened. After a year of nothing done to them, they still looked awesome.

Some times it's comes down to just good, and bad luck.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have a question. Are all plaster problems caused by chemistry as most plasters and the NPC try to make us believe, or are they cause by improper application like I suspect?

No all pool plaster problems are not caused by water chemistry. I am not a water chemistry expert but can give you the basics. Water chemistry plays are big part in plaster surface changes. Quick chemistry lesson, plaster is made with about 40% white portland cement. Cement is a high PH(PH of 12) mostly calcium based composite. Pool water is kept at or close to a nuetral PH of 7 to 7.4. The sanitizers the pool industry uses are either low or high ph chemicals and will shift the water chemistry into a more aggressive state etching the plaster, or to a higher ph position whereby excess calcium in the water will bond to the plaster(calcium scale). Most plaster issues occur when plaster is new within the first 60 days. The cement is not fully crystalized(hydrated is the proper term)and it still has soluble calcium hydroxide within its pores that are slowly leaching into the water. New plaster should be brushed in order to keep the excess calcium up in the water circulating until the filtration system and the acid in the water will clear the water of excess calcium.

Plaster surface deterioration (etching)is typically due to prolonged acidity in the water, aggressive sanitizing.
White scale is typically prolonged too high PH
Colored plaster stains are metals iron and cooper mostly genrated from an outside source, filling from a well for example.

There are installation issues with plaster, many self induced by improper mixing, additives, and control of the installation process. There are also outside factors of temperature, the pool shell or condition of the surface to which we are applying the plaster. High groundwater, like in Florida for example makes it challenging to maintain purity inside that concrete shell.

I do like pool builders who use plaster subs. It is a skill where experience is critical to adapt to every pool's challenges. Material choices are equally critical and I will have to answer those questions one at a time as they arise.

Thanks for your question


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We live in FL and are planning on having our pool/spa resurfaced. We have been shown pebble tech, krystalkrete so far. We have read the warranties and they seem worthless b/c. You must have a "qualified" pool man give you a computer generated "report" every month. Since these warranties seem worthless, we are just looking for the best surface. Half of them haven't been out long enough to evaluate if they are better than the marcite type of finish. What do you think?


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We live in FL and are planning on having our pool/spa resurfaced. What do you think?

I know what you mean about the warranties. Pebbletec warranties that their rocks are rocks and some may fall out but thats okay.

In Florida, I would stick with the Florida plaster manufacturers,not pebbletec. The Florida manufacturers have more customer support there. There are four main companies, CLI(krystalcrete&suntone brands)SGM(Diamond Brite & River Rock brands)Premix Marbletite(marqui and beach something brand)and Florida Stucco(Florida Gem is the brand). Premix Marbletite I know uses good inorganic color. I would look at them first. I would say SGM would be my last choice. Marcite (which means white cement and white marble plaster)is okay too. But you really have to watch your water chemistry, and not let your cyanuric acid levels get over 100PPM.


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We live in Jacksonville and went with Premix Marbletite, Beach series Antigua. The pool is only 6-7 mths old however we love the color and pebble finish.
Look at http://www.thathomesite.com/forums/load/pools/msg0718532217198.html?21
I hope this helps


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Are you saying the CYA @ 100 & over will harm the plaster or because of other reasons?

Having high levels of CYA is not good, I agree, but not because of any harm to plaster finishes that I am aware of.

Scott


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Thanks for the info. We had a quote which showed Krystalkrete, then Pebble krete for about $1,000 more. We thought since the warranties were worthless, will the pebble krete last longer than the Krystal....is it worth the extra money? Also we have a kreepy krawly cleaner and am hearing they don't climb as well on the pebble?
thanks again.


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I definitely would disagree that the Pebble Tec warranty is worthless. We had our pool built this past summer, and developed a couple of stains shortly after start-up. I reported them to the PB several months after I noticed them (waiting to see if any more appeared), who in turn contacted the PT people. They were out within the week with a diver who patched it right up. I wasn't home at the time, but the PT guy told my wife if we had any other issues, don't hesitate to call. Now that being said, we'll see if there are issues in 10 years how they respond. That will be the true test I guess. But, so far I am very impressed with not only the finish, but the support. Just my opinion...


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I have seen many pools where the plaster deteriorated rapidly when the cyanuric acid levels were high and have suspected that high cya contributed to the problem. Although I have not seen any published tests to confirm this,it would be good to know if this were the case.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

plaster expert,
I'm really curious as to your input on low PH startups on the exposed aggregate finishes. Most especially the smaller aggregate finishes like Diamond Brite and Sunstone Select.
I found them to work well back in the mid 90's, prior to using this method we would come out the following morning to acid and pressure wash these finishes. It appeared to me then that the low PH with very little chlorine would achieve favorable results and was much easier on the fat and the feel of the finish.

Thanks for your insight and welcome to the board.

See ya,
Kelly


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for travis turner, can you tell me what type of stains you developed shortly after your start up? what did they look like and what color were they? looks like i have white stains that have developed as well on our PS application.

thanks


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If they show in in pic, can you post it ajones?

Scott


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here are a couple but really hard to make out the white stains....these are basically only on one end of the pool. PB said they would send someone out to take care of it and have divers come out if necessary.

Photobucket

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Ours were rust colored spots. PT said they were stones that rusted. Can't even tell were they were at after the repair.

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket

Photobucket


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

thanks for the response travis! did you experience any what i would call splotching for the lack of a better word? basically my spots are all white but they do not show up in the pictures above very well. i will try to post better pics tomorrow.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Huskyrider
I'm really curious as to your input on low PH startups on the exposed aggregate finishes. Most especially the smaller aggregate finishes like Diamond Brite and Sunstone Select.

I like the low ph start up method with the quartz pool plaster finishes only. The aggregate is not typically deep under the cream. If you wait a couple of days before you drop the PH it allows the cement a little more time to hydrate and reduces the risk of hitting a soft spot. Brushing is also key to even exposure of quartz in low ph startups.


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ajones,

We did not experience what looked like white spots in your finish. I will say this...the finish is not 100% uniform. If you look at the finish at just the right time of day, with the pumps off, you can see some variations in the finish. That being said, I don't see this as any sort of product/application error. If you read the PT website, it is not supposed to be perfectly uniformed throughout. I'm not sure if that helps or not, but thought I'd throw that in. :0)


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I usually let the pools sit for 3 to 4 days with a minimum of chlorine and maximum filtration time. When I smack it with the acid I'll only run the pumps 2 to 3 hours daily to just move the water around somewhat.
I've enjoyed really good luck with this technique and even used it when I was advised no to do it.

Thanks for your insight, having you on board is going to be AWESOME!!!

See ya,
Kelly


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thanks for the follow up travis. i honestly didn't know what to expect in how the application would look after curing. if the splotchiness (sp) is part of the look then so be it and i can live with that. you can't see it when the sun is out or the lights are on in the pool.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

How about cyanuric acid levels and plaster deterioration? Is there a chemical explanation that would debunk or validate what I think I have seen? Has the NPC studied this. I am not a member of the NPC but have read a lot of info that they have put out and havn't found anything.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have a question.

How necessary is "Brown Coating" when replacing plaster?

My spa was plastered three times. Time one, when the pool was built, a crack developed on the step and the plaster (3M Colorquartz) started to de-laminate. Plaster company came out and agreed to replaster the spa under warranty (their warranty, not 3M's).

So, they did this, but the 2nd plaster job was so botched up it was pathetic. It had lumps and bumps and was so uneven that I threatened to sue. It looked like it had been molded with Crayola clay by a 5 year old.

I think it came out like that because after plaster job #1 was jackhammered out, the surface was left very uneven, and when they applied plaster job #2, there was no way it could have been nearly as smooth as the original.

So, plaster job #3 was preceded by a "brown coat," and wala - plaster job #3 is perfect. That was 3 years ago and it's been fine since (knock on wood). The pool has always been fine.

I ask this now because when the time comes to replaster everything, should I insist on this "brown coat?" I was told before plaster job #2 that it wasn't necessary, but it clearly was... Why is applying this brown coat to even out the jackhammered surface not a standard practice?

And yeah, my experience was definitely "applicator error...."


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The lumps and bumps were caused by crappy troweling.

This can happen even w/ a brown coat.


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I think what your describing is a Bond Coat not a brown coat.

And yes, you should ask for a bonding agent on a replaster, I'm a firm believer in these products.

Racket is correct, this unevenness was from the applicator. A good plaster man will lay a smooth coat on whatever is beneath no matter how irregular that surface may be.

See ya,
Kelly


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

An electric chipping hammer is what I am used to seeing being used to chip out old plaster, not a jack hammer. This doesn't normally leave what sounds like a gouged surface.

A gouged surface with this tool would lead me to wonder what they used to make the steps with. Sometimes a gunite crew will use trimmings from the walls to form the steps which can create a very weak cement step. The crack you found after the 1st application is indicative of this. Plaster isn't a structural material but rather a sealing material. It requires something with substance behind it for support. I think the step wasn't sound and that is why the 1st plaster was chipped out. They really wanted the unsound cement under it.

The second application should have been done better.

Bond coats are required when plastering over existing plaster to avoid delamination, or the separation of layers.

Scott

PS - I wonder what happen to the original poster.


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Kelly What do you guys use for a bond coat, we use Scratch Kote 2000, and havn't been all that impressed by it.


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I've got a few bags of that, haven't tried it.We mix our own scratch material.


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We are going with a hybird version of pebble tech with smaller pebbles. Will this finish be better on our childrens feet.


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sorry wrong plaster

WE ARE GETTING A HYBIRD VERSION ON STONESCAPES.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I really like the mini pebble finishes. Most of the applicators around the country have perfected the mini pebble finishes now. Yes I would say that they are smoother on your children's feet. If you are choosing a finish with blue color in it, I would make them guarantee they are using inorganic cobalt blue pigment to color the cement. Chlorine will turn less expensive organic thalo blue to grey in about a year. If this is the case ask the Stonescape applicator to verify what type of blue color they are using.
Good luck Ryan


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Thanks for your imput. To stay on budget our PB is having the plaster guy use a white mix (small pepples) with 20% more blue pebbles added in. I spoke to a pool owner who just had straight white(with some brown in it) and loves his finish. I think with the bule pepples added its going to look great.


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Again with the inorganic/organic thing? Just curious from the pool builders out there...has anyone else ever ran into this new phenomenon?


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I can't comment on the organic inorganic pigments, and which one it better, but I know that you don't want to mess around with blue pigments or your pool can end up many different colors.


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Travis Turner,

"Here we go again" What kind of comment is that?

I want to educate the public on plaster. In my opinion one of the most important topics is color. I have a problem with companies who sell products that have a flaw or don't last. So yes I will warn consumers every chance I get until manufactuerers and applicators of pool plaster products do the right thing and specify inorganic cobalt blue color.

Note:Racket's comment, "don't mess around with blue pigments". He has seen what I am refering to.

Do some research Turner,before you mock my comments. Don't just ask an anonymous pool builder, .


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poolplasterexpert,

On 2/16/10 you posted in another thread:

"Get verification of the type of pigments that are in PT's blue plasters.
IT IS ORGANIC BLUE pigment, pthalocyanine to be exact, and is used to dye textiles. It will bleach with exposure to chlorine, just like blue jeans do.
It streaks because the pigment is so fine. It will float to the surface of the plaster and must be troweled back into the cement matrix. Fortunately for PT, the pebbles hide the bleaching and streaking.

IF you have to have their product, be sure to take pictures of the color during the installation, after the pool is filled with water, and after a couple of months of exposure to chlorine and sunlight. Take another a year later... the dark blues will turn to a dark grey... the light blues will turn to light grey...
Heck, do your own experiment, ask the plaster crew to pour some of the wet plaster into a mold and let it cure. Once it has cured for 28 days, set the sample tile half way into a container of weak household bleach and place it out of the way where it can get sunlight. The half that is exposed will change color with in a week or two...

Buy a plaster that is known for using ONLY INORGANIC PIGMENTS (i.e. cobalt oxides)"

Well, to start, I'm not a builder or pool plaster expert such as yourself. That being said, I researched pools long and hard before putting one in my back yard this past summer. Much of that time was spent researching the interior finish of the pool. In all that time, I never once came across ANY information that Pebble Tec was an inferior product due to the type of blue pigment that they use. And, I know that you are new to this forum, but I value the expertise of the pool builders that help consumers like me on a daily basis via this forum, one of which, built my pool. So at least he is not "anonymous."

Maybe you should read racket's response more carefully. He didn't say that one was better or worse, just that you don't want to "mess around with with blue pigments or your pool can end up many different colors." Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like your reading something into his response that may not be there. And maybe I'm jumping to conclusions, but I'm just wondering whether or not you have an agenda here.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Are the blue pigments you have been referring for the cement, the pebbles, or both?

Are there any other colors or brands with specific colors that have you have seen that seem to change with exposure to pool water using a traditional chlorine sanitation method?

Any issues with alternative sanitizers?

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Scott I am speaking of the pigments used to tint cements. I had a friend who was a PT applicator many years ago who wasn't fond of the blue colors.

The blue used to tint the aggregates like the 3m products never seemed to have issues.

We don't get enough request for blue plaster up here to personally research which blue pigments are the best, so we typically steer people into shades of grey and black which we have have had a great history with.


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PoolPlasterExpert,

Would you happen to be in the Charlotte, NC area? Any interest in consulting?

diyspa


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will agree 100% with plaster expert, inorganic pigments are superior to organic. The blue hues seem to fade quicker than all other inorganics. As far as pebble tec, stonescapes, sunstone, beadcrete, or any of the other exposed aggregates the installiation crew will determine wich product turns out best. The all contain basically the same componets: cement, aggregate, water, pigments. The variable is the skill of the crew applying the finish and the acid wash or start up.


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quote" Are the blue pigments you have been referring for the cement, the pebbles, or both? "quote

The color is always added to the mix for the cement matrix, pebbles don't change colors.

See ya,
Kelly


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The pigments are to color the cement only, inorganics are mineral based. Mineral based pigments like the cobalt used in the blues are more resistant to chemicals. Resistance to chlorine provides a color that will last longer than a finish using an inorganic pigment.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have a question for poolplasterexpert. I am in the Atlanta area and we are considering a pool. We are looking to do a small pool no larger than 16 x 32 however most likely it's going to end up being smaller. We are even thinking that a 14 x 25 social pool would be fine no deeper than 5.5 feet perhaps 6 ft.

Our question is that although we hear pebbletec is the best, are there other options out this way that do not have the minimums that pebbletec have in our area. We want a nice color, good product, and also want our swim out ledges and sun shelf to look good wihtout making them flagstone. We sort of don't like how the pebble looks in shallow waters and since our pool won't be that deep and we have several ledges to sit that are shallow, that is our concern.

I understand our pebbletc folks here are excellent but are there other subs that do other products that are just as good as these guys?

We are located north of Atlanta.

Thanks!


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ok, so we are at the plaster stage, and getting some quotes this week. (We are a DIY, freeform, 29k gallons and think a cost will be around 5k for just standard plaster, is that close??) What I am unsure of is the process of what happens after the plaster ... I think I've read that it needs to be brushed for 1 month after plaster (no swimming, no SWG), but then do you have to wait any additional time before turning on a heater? Any advice appreciated. thanks


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thanks - I had looked over at TFP, but somehow I missed that ... ok, my husband would cringe if he read that I am asking this, but are you brushing from outside the pool, on the deck? How do you reach the deep end?

It seems after reading TFP, you can turn on SWG after 30 days, but doesn't mention the heater. Is it ok at that point? appreciate any tips.


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Yes, you are standing on the deck. The pool brush is on a pool pole that will reach the bottom easily.

Yes, the heater's fine then too as long as you are balanced.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Any opinion on Pyramide Polished Granite? I like the look and the smooth surface. We are putting in a spa and some pool builders only want to quote Pebble Tec. The regular Pebblet Tec is too rough for a spa. Pebble Sheen feels better but it isn't as smooth as the Polished Granite.

Thanks,


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Replastering techniques

We have 2 quotes on replastering. One says he sandblasts down to the gunite. The other says the only way to be sure to get down there is to chip it off. The chip off guy is about 20% more for a small pool. The pool is just now starting to chip off plaster on the steps and a couple places on the bottom. Are they both being honest with me and its just a matter of personal preference?

Also, if the pool chemistry is well maintained, will the re-plaster last as long as the original (25 yrs old)?

Thanks for any help.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am surprised they not have suggested just bond coating over the existing and replastering.
Is this it's second layer? A Yes Requires a chip out
Is the existing just rough and peeling slightly at the steps or are there bubbles in the the plaster from delamination? Delamination requires a chip out.

While I suppose it's possible to sandblast, I have never seen this done.

As to longevity, its possible but there are a lot of variables. I'd be willing to bet that you already waited and waited and that the pool could have used the refinishing some time ago, especially if it was white plaster.

Finishing products have changed a lot in 25 years. The high aggregate finishes like Diamond Brite and Pebble-Tec, etc., have a much higher resistance to chemical imbalances. There is less cement and marble dust to be eaten/worn by Father Time.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Thanks for your response. This would be the first refinish the pool has had since construction. I don't see any bubbles. The steps are peeling off in small chunks. The floor of the pool only has a couple (4-5) smaller holes that have formed. Per pool people and bidders, it is only the top layer that has lifted off. The pool is white plaster and you're right, it had the holes in the bottom 8 years ago but the edge of the steps have really started to fall apart within the last year. Of course that could be because the kids were picking and pulling off pieces.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Scott, not sure if you were asking about my pool earlier in this thread but the result was that the plaster crew will not plaster our pool. There is too much water coming through the walls and steps. The PB is coming to look at the pool this afternoon and determine where to drill holes in the walls to get the water flow moving and hopefully dried out. I'm thinking it won't because there has got to be a spring near by. It is constant water. We may end up with another well on the backside of the pool to help divert water away. This is so crazy and I'm of course sad that we may not be able to do a pool. It is so pretty with the grass and finished arbor now. I'd hate to see it all go.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am sure they will get it done. There are lots of ways to divert the flow to eliminate the water problem. Keep the faith.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We are in the process of resurfacing our pool in Pebble tec-we had the tile replaced and above the tile a 5 inch concrete artificial rock was made to match the blue stone for the decking. My question is when this individual stained the artificial rock the stain dripped all over the sides of pool plaster leaving huge dark stains everywhere and than dumped the remaing stain and chemicals in the middle of the pool so could these colors bleed through the pebble tec causing a problem in the future?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

pdf1444,

The guy who did my artificial rock, also got paint or stain on the gunite before plaster. When he was done painting, he rinsed the walls down and used the pool as a wash basin for his equipment. It all ended up in a big puddle in the deep end of the pool. Months later, when I cleaned out the deep end to prepare for plaster, the remnants left a big stain around 10 ft in diameter. Some of it was peeling off. I got most of it off by scraping and using a pressure washer. But there was quite a bit that wouldn't come off.

I was more concerned about the plaster not being able to bond with the gunite rather than it bleeding thru. I expressed my concerns with the plaster installers, and they said that they'd take care of it. They used muriatic acid and got most of it off without any bleed thru. Talk to your plaster co and see what they can do.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am trying to decide between stoneScape Quartz and StoneScape Mini Pebble. I wanted the extra durability over regular plaster. I was leaning towards the mini pebble but worry if it will be too rough on the kids feet.

I would appreciate any feedback.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Hmmm, I was just enjoying all the random plaster discussions...when I saw a picture above that piqued my interest. We put a pool in last summer and used Blue Granite Pebblesheen finish. Late last season, and now a bit this season, I have several brown "rust" looking spots that look JUST like the last couple pictures ajones showed above. I assumed they were some kind of algae. I work pretty hard to keep my chemistry as correct as I can. Are these really rust spots? If so, any recommendations on how to deal with them?


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Quick correction...

Oops, quick correction...seems like the pics I'm referring to were posted by Travis Turner, not ajones...my bad...


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

space_man,

I can tell you that mine were not algae related. We had the plaster company come out and repair the spots. I wasn't here, but my wife said the guy got in the pool in a wet suit. He apparently chiseled (spelling?) out the spots, and patched them. Our pool builder, Kelly (aka Huskyridor) told me the finish actually sets up better under water. The repair guy told my wife that more than likely it was a couple of pebbles that had rusted out. According to him it is not uncommon and that if any more surfaced to just give them a call. If you are in the Houston area, there is a good chance we used the same applicator.


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Thanks...

Interesting. Thanks for the response. I'm pretty sure I used the same guys Kelly uses. I'll ask my Builder about it, they look exactly like your photos.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

apparently plaster expert opened a can of worms with no time for fishing.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

MMG did our gunite and pebble.


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Resurfacing Advice

Hi we just moved into a new home (well new to us, but built in 1982 and pool build maybe in 1989). The pool is drained and we need to resurface it, what do you recommend and what type of materials?

We have never had a pool before and know next to nothing about it other than than we are in Florida and want to get it filled up before the rainy summer season.

Any and all advice appreciated, and thanks in advance.

Here's photos of the pool as it is now.

pool before two

pool before


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am so glad you are on this forum! I have a less than 2 year old pool with mini pebble StoneScapes plaster. The color of the pool has never been very uniform so the contractor who did the plaster suggested he come back and acid wash the pool to try to get a better uniformity. Yesterday he drained the pool and today he did the acid wash. I just looked at my empty pool and was horrified to see several cracks in the plaster. We called him and he said this was completely normal, and we won't see the cracks once the water is back in the pool. Is this really normal? Also, so far the big dark patches are still there. Am I being too picky or should I expect better? I could call my PB, but they (a big chain) have proven pretty much worthless. ANY suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

To SVG, are you doing the deck too?

To Sue, pix please.

Scott


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SVG pool

poolguynj,

we want to do the deck, but the first pool estimator said it would just crack again in the same spots, so he suggested we use those interlocking pavers over the top which a lot of folks here in florida seem to be using, what do you think? We wanted to hurry and get the pool resurfaced before the heavy rains come so it doesn't pop out of the ground which apparently some pools can do here in florida.

I wouldn't mind a smooth surface on the deck, but don't want to see those ugly cracks afterwards, and we could wait for the deck till later.

Thanks ever so much for any help or advice.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

The only way to stop the deck cracks is to see what's under it. The cracks are from settlement. Fixing the drainage that is causing the soil to compact or move may be as simple as adding gravel under the new decking. A leaking return line, rain, expansive soils, or simply just time can be the issue.

The cracks are along the pool's top beam. This concrete can be replaced with a choice of coping or a continuation of the deck to form a canter-levered edge as was originally designed. It looks like the original deck was physically attached to the beam. This is not normally done any more and that prevents it from cracking there in the future.

If pavers were used instead of concrete before, I would have expected them to have had settlement waves which would be just as unsightly. A well compacted base would prevent this if you go that route.

Find out who does concrete renovations in your area. Get at least 3 bids from vendors you feel comfortable with and visit pools they have done and check with the BBB and any other local review boards. Then make your choice.

If the pool doesn't have a second coat of plaster and is not bubbling/delaminating, re-coating with a new plaster finish will reduce your cost some. Some finishes may need this done anyway.

To learn about pool maintenance, the Pool School at troublefreepools.com is recommended.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Can you tell me your opinion on NPT Colorscapes & Quartzscapes? I'm at a loss when it comes to making a decision on the plaster.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Plaster etching problem only on sunshelf: we are approaching our 3rd season in the northeast. Pool and attached spa are plastered with 3M quartz and looks great except the sunshelf has major spot etching after the 1st winter and now even worse after the 2nd winter, major plaster dust. Each fall the pool is drained about 12 inches (maybe 3-4 inches below sunshelf) and properly closed. After 1st winter PB said to just brush it, didn't work, pitting too deep. Then told I had a chemical imbalance, (wouldn't the entire pool and spa etch then?). Now I'm told I should have pumped the water off sooner so it didn't go on the sunshelf,(if that's the case why didn't the etching occur on the top stair or the spa bench which are at the same level?) Again, the plaster throughout the rest of the pool and spa looks great!
Does anyone know what exactly is causing this and how can I prevent this from happening next spring again?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Water is lowered in winterized pool to just below the tile line. The degraded areas can likely be sanded smooth. Tile is typically 6". A step pump is used to keep the water where it belongs, even where there is a snow load on the cover and water is displaced. This should keep the sun shelf covered in the off season.

Pitting is generally a result of a low pH water over a period of time. If you use tabs and don't properly test your chemical levels regularly, the pH is likely to lower.

Pitting in new plaster is unusual over the winter since the plaster is still raising the pH. More often, scale forms over the winter.

What are you using to test with? How often?

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I hope you can help. We had our pool replastered 3 yrs ago with a white marble plaster. We had to drain the pool down about 4 ft. a couple days ago (long story why). This is the first time we have seen the plaster without water in the pool. The plaster isn't a solid white now (was when it was first done)...it is splotchy with grey and white. In some places, you can see the trowel swipes. The surface is very smooth. It almost looks like grey and white marble. Is this normal? I could send you a picture if there way a way of doing that. The original plaster that so desperately needed replacing was whiter than this. Please let me know if this two tone looking finish is okay. Thank you so much.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Thanks Scott. I've been using the Taylor test kit and your right the ph raised over the winter last year to about 8.0 in spring. This is a salt water pool if that makes any difference.
Also, I would really like to use step pump, but I don't understand how it would pump if it's frozen.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

If it's pumped the water down, it can't freeze.

How/where you lay the discharge hose is important. As long as it's down hill and away from the house and driveway, it will drain itself. A failure to consider this when laying out the drain hose can result in either an ice clog or a safety concern like a frozen layer on a driveway or walkway.

Being that it is the middle of Spring, I don't think we need to worry about this today. In fact, if you have one, unplug it unless you are in the Northern Territory of Canada.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

lamonnier,
Make a photobucket account (free) and u/l the pix there. Below each pic will be 4 code options. copy and paste the 3rd option in the message box on it's own line. The html code will show when you are writing and when you preview, the pic will be there and when you submit it, we will see it.

White plaster is almost never perfect. After several years, things happen like chemical imbalances and such.

txmomoftwo, no I can't offer anything on that brand of products.

travis_turner, Kelly is spot on. He also is one of the best kinds of men in the business, honest and straight and giving. I am willing to bet that you think so too.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Without a doubt...


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Perhaps its too much to ask but would you be willing to type up a short guide along the lines of "25 (or whatever) things you should absolutely know, or ask, before having your pool plastered"

In some other forums they have the option of a master thread so that the same questions don't get asked over and over. While I don't see that here have a thread that someone could read through prior to plastering their new pool would be a wonderful thing.

I know that often its the thing you don't even know you need to ask about that comes back to haunt you so it sure would be sweet to have a list of things I need to educate myself about.


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StoneScape Midnight Blue Recipe Question

The StoneScape mini pebble Midnight Blue recipe calls for
9 Bags Black Rock
1 Bag Gold
1 Bag White
1 Bag Quartz mix
6 Bags of Cement
2 quarts of Midnight Blue

If you use only 5 or 6 bags of black rock instead of the 9 per batch without replacing it with something else how does that affect the finish?

Does it affect how the pool will last long term?

Thanks for your feedback.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Ask and ye shall receive. Someone already has posted exactly what I was looking for. 10 Steps to Better Pool Plaster.

http://poolhelp.com/handouts/oB_Ten Steps - Plaster Handout.pdf

But is it right?


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cracks in plaster

I had a pool put in a couple of months ago. Before they plastered the pool the company patched one spot in the gunite that appeared to be leaking water. Now I have two 6-inch cracks in the plaster in that same area. I have called the pool company and expect them to come out sometime this week. I am wondering if this is common and what to expect in correcting the problem.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I was considering using Pebble tec to resurface my pool, until I read one of your posts that said they use organic pigments which will discolor over time. You recommended looking for companies that use only INORGANIC pigments in their plaster. Can you name some manufacturers that use only inorganic pigments in their product? Thaks.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

The plaster guys finished at about noon today with a diamond brite install. The acid guys were running very late and just got there at 3pm. They said they wouldn't be done until 5pm. The water carrier has said this is too late for a delivery and won't do it until the morning. The PB said this would be fine to wait until morning. Can this be right? It's about 90 degrees outside, 80% humidity and the radar looks like we will be getting a thunderstorm about 4:30pm.
Help!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Mesa Masterbatch supplies inorganic pigments in a variety of colors.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Yea, our newly constructed pool was plastered with Quartzscapes-St. Martin Shade on May 21st and we began filling immediately and slowly over 36 hours. Our PB came out to get us "schooled" and we have been brushing at least 2X daily. I have posted pics below to show the lack of consistency of color. I took these this morning and the dark area is the St. Martin Shade, not a shadow! We expected it to be more uniform in color. After this long will it get more uniform or is something wrong? Please let me know what you think or what should we be asking PB? Thank you (OK, it has taken me this long to figure out how to post a pic-my first try at posting. I have an album, but I could only get one pic.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Quartzscapes-St. Martin Shade


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Can someone give me a ballpark figure on the price of this? Here's my question.
We need to have our pool replastered, it's time. Since we are looking at the least expensive route. We will go with just the white plaster. And do you have to have new tile installed when you have new plaster done?
Pool is around 35,000 gallons. 3 1/2' to about 9' deep.
Does anyone know about how much this would cost? We live in Southern California...Thank You


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Please start a new thread.

If the existing tile is in good shape and you still like it, you can keep it.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Thank you Scott, I will do that!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have a salt-water pool - we are looking to have the plaster re-done and dyed. Anybody know anything about PlasterScapes, and what water color the different shades reflect? Thanks!!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Lilsophie,
White plaster for your sized pool would cost between $3,000-4,000.

Alan


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Please also remember that plaster jobs are universally priced. Different geographies and supply/demand factors al weigh in, often leading to significant differences in pricing.

Scott


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New Plaster with lots of black markings

It is time to make the final payment to my PB and I don't know what to do. He is telling me that the black markings on the white plaster are trowel marks that will disappear with time. They cover nearly all the shallow end and are on the walls in the deep end. I just tried to take some pictures but they didn't show up this time of day---I'll try again in the morning. They appear black on the white plaster and make long arched sweeps. He also said that because plaster is made from marble, color variations are normal. However, this is very significant--not just here and there. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks!!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Alan thank you for your response. Appreciate it!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We have a 16 year old plaster pool that needs resurfacing. What is your opinion of the durability of Sunstone compared Pebbletec or just plaster?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am installing a pool and am searching for aggregate options for my Florida pool. I like a product made by GEMSTONE which has a shell in it to give it a jewel look. My pool contractor has used and is recommending KrystalKrete, or Beadcreate due to the warranty. Any advice on this anyone? The gemstone product is beautiful but I don't know how it will hold up. I've heard many people mention pebble tech but my pool contractor hasn't mentioned it. Help!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Hello, we have a 3 month old gunite/quartz plaster pool that has developed 20-30 delamination spots n the deep end. Can you tell me what the options are for repair? What should I expect/demand from the pool builder. It is a 16k gallon located in Oklahoma.

Thanks so much,
Rick


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

To all,

New issues, New Thread please. The OP to this thread is long gone.

Rick, I will post a new thread for you.

Scott

Here is a link that might be useful: Rick's thread on TFP that has a very good picture.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We just had a pool installed. The finish is magicolor exposed aggregate pool finish. This is our first experience as a pool owner. We have noticed the finish is lumpy. We cannot see it during the day but only at night with the pool light on it's lumpy and uneven. The company is telling us they are shadows. I just cannot believe this since other pool owners I know mention there pool looks smooth. Please help!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Undulations are normal.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We have had difficulties with out QuartScape finish in a pool we had installed in August 2009. We noticed two bad places on one of the benches as the water was filling the pool and called the pool company. They said to just continue pool fill and start up instructions and wait for the finish to correct. After brushing for the first day or two we noticed a 3 inch black streak on the tanning ledge and smaller black streaks throughout the pool. After calling PB they again said continue brushing. After the two weeks of brushing 3-4 times per day, the places on the bench and pool tanning ledge were still present. The pb sent a crew out to add acid and brush interior. No change. Then we were told that the pool needed to be drained and acid washed to correct the problem. PB drained pool, acid washed and then they sanded the interior of our pool. It looks worse than ever. PB now blames our well water and Ph level. Is sanding a normal procedure? If the entire pool is sanded does that diminish the life expectency of this finish? Why wouldn't that even out the finish if the finish had been applied evenly on the initial application? Help.


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Help!

I used TileLab grout and tile sealer to seal the tile on my plaster pool. I did not wipe up the drips that made there way down my plaster wall. Now you can see the exact lines that those little drips made to the bottom of the pool. Is there anything that you can suggest to take that out? Will the sealer wear off?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We are having new pool built, comes with Marbleite white plaster finish, salesman says putting SmartBrite UltraQuartz finish over it it will last 15-20 years, instead of just 10-12 years. Do we need it and is that true?? Any other real benefits to putting it on?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

SmartBrite? Sounds like a BHP-ism for added quartz. If this is the case, adding a couple years of life is realistic, not the 8-12 of Marblelite.

I would ask how much are they adding and who much extra is it?

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

The cost is $1500.00 extra for a 15' x 29'6" pool. The booklet says it is a Quartz finish and will make the surface smooth & slip resistant. SmartBrites resilience offers another advantage: a strong brillant pool surface unlikely to ever need acid washing. Friendly to fingers and toes.
Sounds like something I would want so the surface isnt rough, but is it cost effective?? And is that stuff all true??


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Plaster isn't rough unless it's getting long in the tooth or abused chemically.

Finishes with a significant quartz aggregate are harder and more resistant to erosion. Quartz is pretty hard stuff.

Keep up with the chemistry and cleaning needs and acid washes are not needed. Besides, acid eats plasters, both the cement used and the marble. This can shorten any finish's life though the high aggregates like Pebble and Wet Edge are less affected because there is no marble and less cement exposed.

Is this Blue Haven we are talking about? They don't make but do rebadge/OEM other's products, like Hayward.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Yes it is Blue Haven. So do I need something like that in my pool over the plaster? Is the cost right?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

It's not over the plaster, it's added to and mixed in with. I can't think of anything layered on new plaster that wouldn't delaminate.

I would expect that the sales guy is just that, a sales guy. While he may have sold many pools, I doubt he has any clue how grout and plaster differ.

It's good that you sought outside and impartial opinions.

In my are, BHP has built some of the nicest pools around and all the BHP pools here have been extremely well built. There are franchises that have had serious issues.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

we just had our brand new pool plastered and turns out they used the wrong river rok color. they are coming to determine the next step to get us the plaster color we originally wanted. My questions is what is the best, well RIGHT, way to replaster? Do they need to remove the original plaster or can they apply right over existing plaster? I am nervous they are going to do what is the least expensive option as this is their mistake but i want it to be done the right way. we spent way too much money for this pool to be done half ass. any opinions would be so appreciated. thanks....


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Make them chip it out. Otherwise, in 15 years when it's time to replaster, the chip out is on you and that will add a significant amount to the replastering costs. Two layers are OK but 3 isn't.

Many do chip outs automatically, especially when using premium finishing products. This is to sure they don't come back due to a delaminating layer, a rare but not unheard of event.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

3 layers are fine, as long as they are all solid and attached.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We have a pool months ago even about a year ago I noticed shaded circle areas in the pool splotchs all over first in the shallow side of the pool but now extended throughout the pool also the jacuzzi. Now I have noticed that in the circle shaded splotches the plaster is starting to disinigrate (spell?) anyway the plaster disinigrating is worse in the Jacuzzi. Larger spots on the stairs mostly. Any way our pool guy said its normal wear and tear. Is it from lack of chemicals? And what do we do to prevent it from disinigrating more? We appreciate your help!!!!!!!!!
Virgina


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

We are currently having a 16X32 volleyball pool installed with a 4.25' depth, and are deciding on the finish. We are considering Hydrazzo Classico.
Any recommendations or suggestions regarding this finish?
Thanks!!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Hello,
We are just about ready to tile and plaster our pool. We live in FLorida and our pool contractor recommended CLI Sunstone Pearl because we have two children (ages 7 and 10). I am doing lots of stone around the pool on columns and a spa and have a fujiwa tile (joya verde) and a travertine deck. I keep going to the cli website and looking at the colors but really can't tell much. I don't want a pool that's too dark for safety reasons but I don't want a hotel pool either. Can you shed some light on colors that enhance the natural surroundings and if we are making the right choice by going with this product. Most of my friends have Pebble Tec but pool contractor says he likes this one because of support here in Florida. (probably less expensive too). Thank you for any insite you may have. I want a tropical looking pool with a tuscan feel. Thanks! Shoreline


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Our pool is about 4 years old and was originally plastered in a dark grey color. Since then, parts of the pool surface have gotten progressively lighter in a somewhat random and haphazard manner. It seems to be getting lighter faster where we have a lot of foot traffic. Is this normal for the plaster? How do we get it back to the nice dark grey color we originally had?

thanks!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

PoolPlasterer - is there a good or bad time of day to plaster on a 74 degree day with 0 precipitation?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Like most things, each pool guy we talk to seems to have a different theory. One wants to do base coat with a a glue bonding agent. Another says that keeps the pool from breathing and won't last. He wants to chip all the plaster away and then apply plaster without glue. Which one is better?

Also they are recommending gray plaster here in Hawaii because of the poor quality of the white plaster they can get. In general do the diamond brite and pebble sheen surfaces last longer, or do they just look different?

(I can't believe people's quotes of $5k for plastering. Here it is $15-$25k! Consider yourself lucky!)


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Help PLEASE!...I'm so happy to fine this site! We are ready for plaster...the PB tells me to pick from Magic Marcite. I want a tropical color...all they can show me is blue Quantz..&french gray...


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

This is my first time to join a forum so bare with me! My pool is aproximately 30 years old. I do not believe it has ever been replastered. It has been epoxy painted. We are about to replaster. I do not know anything about companies much less plastering a pool. I am in the process of getting quotes. Question - What do you suggest or can you tell me the differences between the companies and types of plastering? White plaster - I believe this is called marcite (this is what we have), Diamond Brite and Premix marbletite - these are the companies they use (do you reccommend and is there different types?) Also, they mentioned adding quartz to the regular plaster. Please let me know what you think!! What expense am I lookng forward to? Do you suggest we tile as well and how much? I understand price change through out country. I am in Louisiana. I need a ballpark figure.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Help! My pool was replastered 5 days ago with light grey plaster and 3m color quartz standard blue. We have been brushing 3-4x daily and are adding chemicals according to the PBs recommendations. Water was last tested yesterday and showed no minerals. Today there is black discoloration between the decorative tiles only...nowhere else in the pool. It is splotchy, hard, and cannot be removed by brushing. Can't figure out how to post a darn picture. Any ideas?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

If you don't already have one, make a photobucket album. It's free but registration is required.

After you make and fill the album, each pic will have 4 choices of code snips to paste in this and other useful forums or web pages. This forum uses the 3rd sniplet.

Copy and paste the sniplets you want us to see, one per line.

Do you have a printed report of the chems?

How were they tested?

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have an inground pool that probably 12-15 years old and the plaster is needing attention, well really replacement. The pool is kidney shaped with about a 90' perimeter.

Is it worth considering a roll-on pool coating?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Not in my opinion. The initial outlay is less but then you get to repeat it every couple years so the end result is significantly more money and since the pool needs to be emptied and emptying a pool has risks.

Scott


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florida gem aggregate pool finish

Poolplasterexpert,
Could you comment please on florida gem exposed aggregate pool finish? Quality vs. PebbleTec etc.? We are considering Hawaiiian or Biscayne Blue. We want a blue looking pool, with no green tones. Have almost all day shade, so PB says french silver too dark.
Thank you for any input.
s


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Hi Plaster Expert,
My pebble plaster has become discolored in spots. It's not quite like a stain but more of a faint but noticeable darkening. I bought the Jack's Magic stain ID kit and none of the chems produced a result. Now I'm left wondering if these are not stains but rather a problem with the plaster itself. I was told the pebble plaster got better with age and that it lasted a lot longer. As it is, this was a replaster (in 06) from plain white that was not done properly in 04. Within 2 years of building the pool, it became apparent that the white plaster was defective; black stains started showing through due to the plaster being too thin (or at least that's the line I was fed!). They didn't remove it but instead plastered over it with the pebble finish (which I chose in order to avoid future problems!). The "stains" aren't very noticeable in the sun but much more on a cloudy day. I pray this can be corrected!!! Thanks!


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Mr. Plaster expert,
I was so glad to see your page. We are having a pool built and hit groundwater. The builder installed a gravel bed and sump pump before the gunite. While the stone wall for sheers was being built the pool started taking on water. Our question is before the builder applies plaster is it better if they drain and wait for gunite to dry before installing plaster? If so, how long? You help is much appreciated....the stone mason should be complete in two days. Help...


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I have two proposals from local reputable companies for resurfacing my pool. One proposes using Marbletite Marquis Series aggregate, the other says CLI Krystal Krete is a superior product. Price is about the same. I want a slightly blue color. Live in FL. What do you think?


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

poolplasterexpert has not been on this thread since February of 2010


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Hi. We are getting our 9 year old pool replastered. I was offered a choice of 3M Quartz finish, which I am not familiar with. The quote was $800 more for the Quartz than regular plaster. Both come with a five year warranty. We are in Las Vegas, and our water is very hard.

Do you know anything about the 3M Quartz, and is it worth the extra $$$?

Thanks.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Please, Please, Please, Start a new thread for new questions. As Cascade mentioned, the OP hasn't been heard from for quite some time.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

URGENT!!!

I need a quick ball park estimate to completely refinish a pool with diamond-brite materials. I had significant hail damage and the finish of my pool has cracks and small holes in it and it also now feels like the floor "is floating" off the concrete slab. The hail was golf ball and even baseball size.

The pool is only 3 years old with french gray diamond-brite size is exactly 12x20 rectangle with a 2 1/2 to 5 ft deep slope one small tile layer at the top. I ask because most insurance adjusters have no idea what this product is and how expensive it is to apply. And I do not want to get ripped off because the ajuster is from a national catastropy team and is doing 10 of these estimates a day mainly for roof damages.

Any ball park estimate for resurfacing and reappliying it to this size pool would be greatly appreciated ...my adjuster is coming tomorrow and we had our uncle build the pool and he is no longer with us.

My adjuster is coming tomoorow and I have exhausted my resources for where I live in Ohio....Not able to find businesses that sell much less repair pools with anything other than vinyl liners!!!

Any help would be great!!! PLEASE HELP!!
Thank you so much in advance!!!!

If you have any further questions please email me!
Sincerely

Mr. and Mrs. Thomas


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

You're going to need real estimates. There has to be plasterers in your area. Try www.swimmingpool.com or Google.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

OK I WILL POST IT.

DO NOT POST HERE.

START A NEW THREAD. THE DUDE THAT STARTED THIS HAS NOT CHECKED IT IN AGES.

START A NEW THREAD.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I am having our pool resurfaced after we drained it to put in a spa. It was dry for two weeks and we noticed blisters that you could pick with your fingers. Pool contractor put a grey coat of something over the surface, but did not remove all the blisters. With the blisters, won't the krystalkrete just flake off where these blisters are.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Blisters are where the finish separated from the underlying surface, be it plaster or gunite. The only way to fix this is to remove it first. Anything on top doesn't address the problems below.

When adding to a pool's structure, the entire pool and new structure, in your case, a spa, should be replastered in its entirety. Otherwise it's like changing 3 out of 4 spark plugs in a car.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

My PB plastered and filled pool on Tues with diamond brite. They have not returned since for startup, brushing, etc. Thats 3 days without balancing or brushing. Will this affect the diamond brite for longevity, or ability to expose finish?
Thanks


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Yes it can, but not by a lot. If you can get the filter running, do so. A few hours later, check the pH and get it down to about 7 with muriatic. I would expect it to take at least a gallon per 10,000 gallons in the pool. Pour it in front a running return. Do not shut the heater. Wait several hours and brush all surfaces toward the drain. Expect to repeat this pretty frequently for the first 10 days or so.

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

I think I have plaster spalling....
I started up the pool after the winter last week, and it was swamp-green , I shocked for a few days, and had some swings in the Ph (was up to 8.0 for a day or 2 , down to 7.0.. I miss-calculated the amount of acid). Now I just have cloudlyness. My Hardness is lowish (150ppm), but it was lower (80ish) last week. And also, when I vac to waste, I see white specs where the discharge hose is.

So I am bumping up the hardness by 70ppm, my question is, if this is spalling, how do I get the cloudiness out? will it fall to the bottom, will it come out with the vac to waste? will I have to drain the pool?

All the other chems are back in order now (has been 2 days).

Thanks in advance...


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

What are you using to test with?

We can't undo so lets go forward.

When shocking levels exist, it is normal for the pH to rise. It will drop with the Free Chlorine (FC) level.

Scale of any type takes time. Your's doesn't sound like it had that.

Your water is somewhat aggressive towards calcium. Bring the CH level up to about 300, then plug your numbers into the pool calculator. Scroll down check the Calcium Saturation Index (CSI). Target -0.1 to -0.5 so the calcium in the cement holding things together doesn't dissolve. Target your pH at about 7.5 and the water, with its calcium already in solution, it will be less inclined to pull it from the plaster.

CSI's that are on the positive side can form scale.

As for the cloudiness, what are your current numbers for the following:

Alkalinity, pH, Stabilizer (CYA), Calcium Hardness, FC and Combined or Total Chlorine.

What pump and filter do you have?

How long have you been running it per day?

What size is the plumbing?

Scott


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

Question for the experts here. My Shotcrete pool was finished January 2011. The builder managed the water Chemistry till February 2011. In late Feb I noticed what appeared to be large areas of darkness in the plaster. It was too cold to investigate and I did bring it to the attention of my local Charlotte pool builder- He said they would send someone out as it looked like the finish was crumbling.
They never really have addressed this outside of the owner telling me it was a water chemistry problem about 6 months ago. Due to some he alt issues I did not pursue.

Now, it has gotten worse and I firmly believe it is shotty plastering, but need to prove it. The areas of darkness in the photos are very rough indicating much of the white plaster has be lifted in the dark areas. My cleaner very often id full of what seems to be plaster. The chemistry has always been reasonable and in fact this happened a few weeks after they finished managing the chemistry. Since it continues to worsen and I seem to be capturing a bunch of plaster each week- I assume it is still decaying.

this is my second in ground Shotcrete pool- I never had this kind of issue with the first one.

Take a look at the Pictures- Any help is greatly appreciated- and yes I am getting two estimates to fix this, but I really don't think I should pay. I believe my Pool company should fix rather than dodge the issue.


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RE: I will answer pool plaster questions

What have you you been testing with?
What have been the numerical results for each of the following values. Put your answers below and past values,say monthly for a few months.

FC = Free Chlorine CC = Combined Chlorine pH = Potential Hydrogen Alk = Alkalinity CYA = Cyanuric Acid CH = Calcium Hardness

FC CC pH Alk CYA CH

Scott


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