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New Jandy Software 4.0

Posted by davegvg (My Page) on
Sun, Jan 11, 09 at 19:18

Who has installed this?

Its supposed to natively control Inetlliflo VF correctly.

I downloaded the operational PDF a few weeks ago and it says you can now select the (vf and other multi-speed) pumps in the menu and the readout will change to gallons per minute.

Sounds ideal.

Davegvg


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Yeah sounds ideal until you need support. Do you think Pentair is going to support 3rd party control systems that are monkeying with their pump logic? How about their new SVRS IntelliFlo pump? The last thing in the world I would want is some 3rd party taking protocol "guesses" about how to operate an SVRS or non-SVRS pump for that matter!

If you want to use Pentair's IntelliFlo pump then save yourself some grief and use Pentair's IntelliTouch, EasyTouch, or SunTouch control systems.

If you want to use a Jandy variable speed pump, wait nevermind, they still don't have one.

If you want to use a Hayward variable speed pump, then use a Hayward control system.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Landa, thanks for the negative feedback.

Maybe things are different in your area or perhaps the manufacturers are friendlier in Texas.

The warranty company in your area for Pentair probably runs Jandy and Hayward warranty calls too.

Quite honestly, I'm becoming disgusted with your negative replies and also your apparent lack of knowledge about these digital controllers.

Anyone can copy and paste the way you did when you slammed the member who asked about the Hayward Aqualogic and then the pool builder member of the forum who wrote a well written reply to his question.

All I can remember you replying was that maybe you weren't sure of the capabilities of one over the other.
When copy and paste is your alternative to knowledge gained in the field it shows.

Nothing personal, I find you a valued member of the forum and look forward to your input on threads.
Just my .02

See ya,
Kelly


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

The question stands.

Landa Mac- I expect the pump to work as its supposed to.

Either the jandy software recognizes the pump from the menu & controls GPM or it doesn't.

As for saving myself grief - my new Master temp 400 has broken twice in 6 months,and my quad de-60 was replaced last friday as it had a manufacturing defect in the base.

Spare me the lectures about your pet brand and STFU if you cant

1.answer the question
2.or add value.

Davegvg


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Guys, settle down, take a deep breath. Don't get so hostile when people don't write what you want to read.

Trying to control an IntelliFlo pump using a Jandy or any other 3rd party control system is a bad idea. It's kind of like taking a Ford steering wheel and trying to jam it in a Chevy. It don't work so good. Sure, Jandy or other companies may have figured out how to talk to Pentair's Intelliflo pump in some limited fashion. What do you think will happen when Pentair updates the firmware on their Intelliflo? Do you think they are going to bend over backwards to ensure compatibility with Jandy? I doubt it. On the other hand, they will make sure it works correctly with their Intellitouch, Easytouch, and Suntouch systems. If you try to combine these apples and oranges, you are just creating a future nightmare support scenario for yourself and your customer (who is never patient).

That's what I am trying to get through to you knuckle heads.

Husky, sorry if I come across negative. I just get impatient when I read people trying to go down a path that doesn't make sense. By the way, the poolman in that other post was trying to compare Pentair's top of the line (and therefore premium priced) IntelliTouch system to Hayward's AquaLogic system. Of course IntelliTouch is going to cost more (not anywhere as much for the wireless remote that he spoke of). Wonder why he didn't even mention EasyTouch (which was designed to compete heads up with AquaLogic)?

If those reading haven't figured out the basic control system positioning in the marketplace, here is what it boils down to:

Top end systems:
Pentair IntelliTouch with optional ScreenLogic interfaces
Jandy AquaLink RS

Mid end systems:
Pentair EasyTouch system
Jandy AquaLink PDA system
Hayward AquaLogic system

Entry level system:
Pentair SunTouch
Intermatic timer based systems

Sure, there are others but they sell a fraction of what the above 3 players sell.

Compool started the entire pool automation segment in the late 70's. Peter Bajka sold his company to Pentair in the early 2000's. In the late 80's/early 90's, as the story goes, Jandy OEM'd a control system from Compool and sold it while behind the scenes they developed their own system. They came out with that system and dominated the market until Pentair's IntelliTouch came out in early 2003. Then in 2004, Hayward came out with their AquaLogic system which combined the control system and salt chlorination transformer into one enclosure and it began to sell very well. Pentair responded in 2005 with their EasyTouch system and then Jandy with their AquaLink system.

Hayward has focused solely on their AquaLogic system. Not a lot of innovation there since 2004 with the exception of their pH/ORP dispenser add-on. They are basically trying to build it out feature and functionality wise into an IntelliTouch or AquaLink like system. I haven't seen much change out of Jandy's controls since 2006 when they added the different salt load centers. I have seen the most innovation coming out of Pentair's controls. They have 3 classes of systems (all created since 2003), these 3 can control between 1 and 8 IntelliFlo pumps, you can use their advanced ScreenLogic interface for local or remote control, have up to 4 video cameras around the home and view the streaming video from them anywhere in the world. I personally use their remote monitoring program to monitor 38 of my customers over the Internet. I get detailed info on the status of each of their pools and I get alarms the second something goes wrong and can almost always respond and fix the problem (often times remotely) before my customers even realize they have a problem! See the link below for a screen shot of my system. I have hidden the customer's names for privacy. The systems marked UNKNOWN are in the process of being installed...

Yes, Husky, I cut and paste all the above...and yes, I am biased towards Pentair.

Here is a link that might be useful: Pentair Remote Monitoring


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Well, I'm a Pentair biased guy and my opinion is this. If you want a VF or VS, you should use Pentair automation. If you want a Jandy "multi speed pump", you should go with an Aqualink. The PDA still sucks even in the current revision. but then again, all PDA's suck when you consider the time involved to scroll through. You could walk the command over to the pad faster. That leaves wireless if you want portability. The IntelliTouch Mobi is far too expensive so that leaves the EasyTouch and Hayward. EasyTouch has a superior wireless unit and if that is your only decision, then the choice is easy.

Jandy has a long reputation of having friendly automation. But, they also are the priciest and unfortunately, the quality is not warranted by the inflated prices. But lets assume you want to pay more. What about upgrades? Jandy will charge you for a firmware upgrade to a tune of almost $1000. Pentair gives theirs away. That is is huge when it comes to long term viability for new products hitting the market.

On to the actual question. Yes, Jandy will operate the IntelliFlos. Pentair will not warrant the pump if it gets jacked up. Are you willing to risk that investment? Most are not.

Make a choice for one brand. Don't mix these critical products. If you choose IntelliFlo, make Jandy pay for not having a viable variable speed product and buy Pentair automation. If you choose Jandy, buy their pump and show Pentair you prefer the ease of the Jandy programming. buy Hayward and show them you have no desire for anything on the cutting edge as that is about where they are now. Each year, they dismantle their stuff more and make you buy everything is parts. You can't say that about Pentair. Buy an Easytouch and you get it all in one box except for your controller. Buy a Jandy and you need to build it. Buy a Hayward and you need to build it.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Hey Repair_guy,

Pentair actually dramatically dropped the price on their new MobileTouch unit. While still more expensive than the Jandy or Hayward, its got a 4" graphic screen and a long lasting rechargeable battery. I like it because there is no scrolling - 10 buttons for 10 features (actually 4 screens of 10 buttons for 40 features). Its a big improvement over their original MobileTouch.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

So Landa Mac your answer is no - you haven't installed it.

As for me being a knucklehead (thats an uncalled for personal insult from someone that doesn't know a thing about me) and pentair putting new firmware in the pump- I don't supposed Id install it without checking the control system for a compatible upgrade as well.

Last I checked updates don't magically move from the web/or a chip to the pump with no intervention - douchebag (you started it)

Your diatribe about controllers doesn't answer my question.

Repair guy- have you installed 4.0 firmware/software and hooked it up yet?
You say it works but you arent actually answering the question about 4.0 GPM control.

You mention specifically "multi-speed" pumps, but the PDF anyone can download shows the controller menu to call out the VF pump and the instructions state when using that pump the default setting becomes GPM instead of RPM as with the jandy pumps.

I think your statement about cost is highly relevant and adds value to the thread- Im interested to see what they will charge me for the update, if its a grand Ill just stick with the 1HP pump as it sits now.

As for service - If pentair didn't drop the ball multiple times on my brand new heater and filter I might actually swap out a 7 month old automation system. Pentairs failure to take care of me on brand new equipment tells me Im on my own no matter what I buy from them. (You can read my review on the master temp 400 on epinions)

I dont love my jandy either. If you search other threads from me Im pretty brutal about what it does and doesnt do and it has glaring faults.-

For better or worse- thats what I have, and I have to give it to them- they responded to the market with an upgrade that controls this very sophisticated pump.

Im still looking for feedback from someone who has done the upgrade and installed the pump.

Davegvg


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Wow Davegvg,

I find it ironic you start off the thread by telling me to STFU and then call me a douchebag.

One more time - it is a really bad idea to try to use a Jandy control system with a Pentair IntelliFlo pump. You are asking for trouble. Good luck finding anyone giving you advice on here. Nobody likes to be told to STFU or called a douchebag when they are trying to help.

I wish you the best of luck. Happy tinkering.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to stir up such a whirlwind!!!
I was a bit miffed at the negative reply and thought about the multiple others. I let it show and shouldn't have.
I guess I got my feathers ruffled, slipped totally off topic, and never answered the question

Dave, if you have the new software you can use it with either of the Pentair pumps. It increases the speeds of a 4x160 and makes the VF into an 8 speed also.
I wouldn't worry about the supposed issues of having one Mfg's controller operating another's pump.
In my area builders have been using equipment sets of differing Mfg's for a long time. I'm sure you'll get the same in your area too.
If it's a big concern let me know and I'll call my Pentair rep tomorrow and ask him what his employers position on it is.
Sorry to hear about your problems with the Pentair equipment, I can assure you it's very good stuff, so is the product from Jandy, StaRite, and although not my favorite Mfg Hayward too. The Fab 4 have well constructed and well warranted swimming pool equipment.
I try not to let my equipment favoritism show in my posts because it's really much more important that you guys and girls purchase any pool products. When you support the industry with your purchases everybody in the entire industry wins.
IMO, this is much more important than if I got a new pool construction job or one of my competitors got it, and as equally whether you utilize my preferred equipment or someone else's.

See ya,
Kelly


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Landa Mac- you reap what you sow, and you trying to make this into me being out of line is laughable.

I didnt try to hijack a thread you started with opinion, stories and insults.

I asked a specific question- you did not answer the question but hijacked the thread and told a completely off topic condescending story revolving around a pet brand of yours.

(husyridor- called you out before I did on this and mentioned its your MO so you seem to be building a reputation of your own)

You then called me a knucklehead and told another zero value story that although interesting had nothing to do with my question.

A. You started it
B. You continued it
C. You still haven't answered my question

I neither need, nor or want "help" like that.

Huskyridor-

No problem- you are adding value and calling it as you see it. (repair guy has been helpful in the past as well)

Im actually not worried in the least about mixing vendors but, Im going to use the VF pump because I want to feed my solar panels the manufacturers recommended flow rate for best efficiency.

When you say it makes the VF into an 8 speed this is contrary to the pdf I downloaded that states the VF pump when loaded into the software profile defaults to GPM and is programmable in GPM. It specifically states this and references the VS pumps, and the jandy pumps as being RPM based.

As for the Pentair gear- I thought so too, but its been about as reliable as Kim Jong Ills public appearances.

I completely re plumbed/re plastered and did an equipment move in March of 08 and was told "pentairs the best" so I spent the money. My whisperflows have been great so I expected the best.

I have nothing to sell and no axe to grind, but in all honesty the Pentair gear has been unreliable, and the Jandy cant do temperature based switching (like say... use the panels to heat the jacuzzi to 102 then heat the pool) - overall maybe Im expecting too much, but Im dissapointed in all of the stuff so Im not playing brand favorites because it all seems weak from where Im coming from.

Im more than happy to send picts verifying I actually have all this stuff, to anyone thinking Im bashing pentair for no reason.

Davegvg


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Come on, guys, don't stop now... I just got my popcorn! :-P


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Dave,

You need to understand some concepts on automation first. There is a diference with firmware and the firmware revision. With this particular Jandy, you are not shopping PDA rev. 4.0 if you desire variable speed. The Jandy variabler speed option is available only on rev. O. PDA 3.0 will work on rev. M but rev. M is not a variable speed firmware. Rev. 3 on the PDA was a huge step forward on responsiveness but it still sucks compared to the EasyTouch responsiveness.

Now, here is what you seek, I think. Jandy has pirated protocol for both versions on IntelliFlo. This means they feel they can make it work by addressing the speed option of these pumps and yes, they did it. It does void your pump warranty though as it is not an accepted or 100% fool proof option to run. You address the pump through the rev. O firmware on your system. Ther fact that your PDA is a 4.0 means it works but the PDA itself is not the decision maker. It is the rev. O chip on the mother board. Which, by the way will cost you $1000.00 to upgrade when you want a better revision. This is the source of my previous statement that makes a Pentair a better choice for future revisions.

Jandy does not allow you to choose the many options of the IntelliFlo such as setting your own unique speeds. It addresses the capability of the pump by hitting it at one of 8 preset rpm speeds that the controller can be set to. Coincedentally, the Jandy variable is an 8 speed. Go figure. The PDA 4.0 may make reference to a gpm conversion buyt it is an estimate and not true gpm. It assumes head at a specific speed and calculate a number to make you feel good.

The IntelliFlo VF is a true gpm number based on the logic in the system. It calculate resistance at a specific water temp and calculate a gpm which in most cases is dead on to a few gpm. These pumps also allow you to set any speed from 400-3450. The plugging of this pump into your Jandy only access "8" of these speeds that Jandy says you should have when you run POOL, SPA, ETC. It is limited.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

A few corrections to the previous post:

The AquaLink and PDA are two different products. The AquaLink runs on an ARM processor, and the PDA runs on an 8051. Hence the different firmware revisions: Rev O vs. 4.0. The confusion may lie in the fact that a handheld device can be used with the AquaLink, and that device looks just like the one used in the PDA system.

The latest AqualLink release is Rev P, and includes variable speed support. It interfaces to the IntelliFlo, and send true GPM commands, just as if they were entered in at the pump. There is no calculation or assumption being done in the AquaLink related to flow.

This talk about "8 speeds" is not relevant to the AqualLink, as there is continuous adjustment available in both RPM and GPM. The confusion there probably comes from the Standalone Jandy ePump controller, which provides 8 Presets that can be set at any speed and saved.

The Jandy ePump is not an "8 speed" pump. It will operate anywhere from 600 to 3450 RPM. Again, this "8 speed" concept probably comes from the 8-preset feature in the Standalone controller.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

When I first started out in the pool business in 1982, there were only a handful of choices one could make in regards to what equipment to use. It amazes me when I read all of your posts in this particular subject posting, just how far the technology has come. The choices can be overwhelming. Alot of guys like me tend to stick to what has been best for us in the long run. It has been my experience that: Sta-Rite used to be considered the best until they started having problems with their hair and lint pots. Hayward stepped up in the 90s, re-tooled and re-invented themselves. They took a big chunk of the market and then pi__ed it away by not honoring their warrantry on any of their product. Pentair stepped in and changed the market from there and in the process, they backed their product with an unsurpassed warranty. Now they seem to question every warranty. Everyone has had a different experience which of course will shape their views. Here is the question I have of all of you: Do you do the right thing? Do you take care of your customers and do you honor your word? Whether you are a builder or service person or manufacturers rep, do you show by you actions that you have integrity in a business that has been known to be full of thieves,liars and cheats? I love doing what I do, and it is always so rewarding when you have a client that has had a bad experience with somebody else that has done work for them, tell you how much they appreciate someone that did what they said they would do and did it when they said they would do it, for the price they said they would do it for. You can argue all you want about what equipment is best or what computer software is best but the most important thing should be to set yourself apart by doing the right thing by people. The homowners in this forum look to all of us as professionals to steer them in the right direction before, during and after their pool or spa experience. Let's concentrate on that above all else. The one poster that should be crowned King for all of his insight and help to homeowners and professional alike is "repair guy". You are the man!!!


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Don,

Thanks. I am now facing this exact thing in distribution. Our customers are first. We take warranty back, no questions asked as long as it is within the warranty period. We then press the vendor to make it right. Some are real good, some are not. The ones who do not step up and honor warranty by putting us (distribution) first who are already putting our customers (you) first will not see product support in terms of stocking and sales. We seek RGA's on any company who cannot step up to the plate as there is no sense stocking if you can't get support. A rather large chem test company is terrible at warranty and we are done with them at this point. Too bad not everyone feel this way.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Hmmm... I got my upgrade info from Jandy themselves who asked me to cold start the pda and read them all the data the screen shows on startup- currently firmware- j-box- and handheld are all v3.0 then I got a part # to order to upgrade to the VF pump compatible code from a distributor.
V4.0 is what the guy called out and Ill go look up the part# when I get to the office.

repair guy - (I agree you have been the gold standard on this forum and have always shown class and style- I dont always agree 100%- but thats what forums are for)

IF I boil down what you are saying the flow# is basically faked or rounded off at best and that the pump itself and the pda could potentially disagree.
i.e.- I could ask for 35GPM from the pda on say the normal filter setting and that the jandy system will round that call to a preset RPM range and "fake" the GPM number in the PDA.

So based on what you are saying- If I walked over to the pump it will absolutely give me a different reading than what the pda calls for because Jandy is natively an RPM based systems and this upgrade does not do what jandy claims.

The pump logic itself supplies a real time read out of both GPM and RPM does it not?

I dont see any way for the jandy to "reach into" the pumps internal calculation and modify its internal logic, but for the jandy to work as advertised it must read native pump protocol.

I certainly like shaggydawg answer, and hope he has this one right

I still haven't heard from anyone who tells me they have done the install- this will vet out the differences in theories between you guys.

Dawg- what's a Jandy E-pump? I dont see or cant find that part anywhere. Sounds interesting, can you post a link?

The whisperflows are the one piece of Pentair gear that have performed as advertised (for me) so unless that epump can perform a GPM computations instead of RPM Im not likely to go that way- but Im always interested to learn.


Davegvg


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Dave,

The Jandy AquaLink does not have to do any RPM/GPM conversion. It simply sends serial commands in GPM format to the pump.

Remember, V4.0 refers to the PDA system, which is a lower-end version of the AquaLink RS. The RS runs firmware Rev O.2 (letter 'O'), and more recently, Rev P.

There is some, though not a lot of, information out on the web with regard to the Jandy ePump. It's not released yet. Try googling "Jandy ePump". You probably didn't spell it quite right when you searched.


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

A lot of discussion about Pentair Intelliflo VF 3.2 pump compatability with Jandy Aqualink RS controls. I just purchaed the Intelliflo VF 3.2 and I'm on the verge of getting the IntelliTouch control system. It's a bitter pill because my Jandy Aqualink RS6 is less than two yrs old. I don't want to half ass the new pump with the Jandy revision "0" conversion kit (7092) or the IntelliComm go-between. I don't think either option will allow full functionality. I'm going with the IntelliTouch controls, but wondering if I can keep my current Jandy Aqualink power center, relays (including dimmer) valve actuators and spa side remote. Any thoughts?


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Jandy supports the intelliflo pump when installing a new version rs system.i did one today with a one touch.very easy


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RE: New Jandy Software 4.0

Would like to get some followup to this thread. I have an Aqualink RS-8 Rev QQ and need a new pump. Am strongly considering the Intelliflo VF. How has this worked out for the OP and anyone else?


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