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Sewer Smell

Posted by fredmc (My Page) on
Sun, Dec 9, 07 at 15:59

We have an old house(turn of the century) that was recdently renovated. We also put in a new septic tank and leach field a couple of months ago.

The old sewer pipe to the tank has a 4 inch vent that comes up the side of the house and terminates under the eaves. About 2 feet from the end of the vent is the bathroom fan(put in during reno) On certain days you can smell sewer in the house. It appears to be coming from the vent and accumulates under the eaves and comes in through the fan opening.

I know than on modern houses the vent goes through the roof and vents into the air. I could extend this pipe to run along the eaves to the end of the roof or put in a couple of elbows and extension so it comes from under the eaves and around the eavestrough.
What I would like to try though, is to put a 180 degree elbow on the vent so the opening is facing down. This would still allow venting but it would stop the odor from coming out of the vent(I think)

Any thoughts.

Thanks

Fred Mc.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Sewer Smell

Hopeful lazypup will chime in here - he's our resident code expert. In the mean time, don't even consider leaving the vent terminated below your roof. In fact, you may want to get the whole vent system looked at. It's important to have it done right, unless you enjoy stinky, toxic gases.


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RE: Sewer Smell

Obviously this is an older home that most likely did not originally have indoor plumbing, therefore they ran the vent stack up the exterior of the structure. Most codes no longer permit any vents or waste stacks to run on the exterior of the structure, however in this case it would be grandfathered in.

Having said that, even though the vent may be permitted to run on the exterior of the building it still must meet the code restrictions concerning how and where it may be terminated.

No vent may be terminated closer than 12" from any vertical surface.

In urban areas where structures are built close together or where a structure is physically located close to the property line it must be noted that NO VENT may be terminated closer than 10' horizontal from the property line.

All vents must terminate 7' above any flat roof that is used as a deck within 10' horizontal from the vent stack.


Under the Uniform Plumbing Code (UPC) ALL VENTS must be terminated a minimum of 6" or average snowfall plus 6" above the roof line, no exceptions.

Under the International Residential Code (IRC) or the International Plumbing Code (IPC) all structures are required to have one "Main Vent" which must terminate through the roof and extend 6" above the roof line (average snowfall plus 6" in areas subject to frost). Main vents may not have a horizontal offset. (In plumbing any pipe which rises at an angle of less than 45deg above flat horizontal is said to be a horizontal pipe, whereas any pipe which rises at an angle of 45degrees or greater is said to be a vertical pipe.)

Keep in mind that the stack in question is a "Main Vent".

You could use a pair of 1/6th bends "sanitary 60deg elbows" or a pair of 1/8 bends "sanitary 45deg elbows" and offset the pipe from the wall to the edge of the roof at a 45 or 60deg rise, then extend it above the roof line.

Under the IRC when additional auxiliary vents are required they may be terminated through the roof, in the attic space, or through the wall under some rather strict rules.

Through the wall vents:
a. may not terminate under a vented soffit.
b. Must terminate 2' above any opening into the structure within 10' horizontal.
c. must terminate 4' below any opening window within 10' horizontal.
d. sidewall vents must be fitted with screens to prevent birds from nesting in the pipe.
many local codes simply prohibit sidewall venting completely.

As a personal note: While the IRC does permit terminating a vent in the attic space I personally refuse to do so and I would highly caution anyone to reconsider before doing so. One of the biggest problems with terminating a vent in the attic space is water vapor from the bath, shower or laundry discharge will eventually be carried into the attic space where it condenses with the cooler air and settles into your insulation. This not only renders the insulation ineffective, it also provides a perfect medium for mold growth. In addition, any heavier than air sewer gases that were carried into the attic space will eventually migrate through the ceiling materials and you end up with sewer stink throughout the house. As if that were not problematic enough, most homeowners and sadly many insulation installers are unaware that DWV vents may be terminated in the attic therefore they inadvertently cover the vents when installing additional insulation.

In order to understand venting we must understand the nature of sewer gas. Sewer gas is a combination of a number of gases that are produced by the decomposition of organic materials. If the drain lines are pitched correctly there should not be any major accumulation of organic materials standing in the pipe, however the pipe walls are unavoidably coated with a residue of organic waste material so a minor amount of decomposition is taking place in the pipes constantly.

Sewer gas is primarily composed of methane, nitrogen, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide, nitrous oxide and a lessor amount of water vapor. Some of these gases are heavier than air, while others are lighter than air and the proportions of the gases will vary constantly therefore we can never be sure if the gas is naturally rising up the stack or settling down to the main drain line. As liquid flows through the pipe it displaces the volume of the gases, therefore under some circumstances the displaced gas may rise and go out the stack or it may be pushed further down the pipe. The only thing that is certain is that it does move. In addition, as we discharge warm water such as from a shower, tub or laundry discharge the air and gases in the line are also heated and under these circumstances even gases that are basically heavier than air can and will be carried to the top of the stack by the warm air and gases. Once they leave the stack if the outdoor air is still the heavier than air gases will immediately begin to settle towards the ground ergo we smell sewer gases when outside on a cold still day.

I would be interested to hear the theory as to why a 180deg bend on the top of the vent stack would prevent the stink from coming out, but let me suffice it to say that it will not work. If you don't believe it, take your shop vac and suck the water out of a toilet bowl, then close the bathroom door for a couple hours and come back and see what that bathroom smells like.


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RE: Sewer Smell

I'm wondering if the smell is worse because my septic tank hasn't breathed in awhile due to the clogged old pipe, i.e. no oxygen produces anaerobic breakdown which is stinkier.

Because it was shallow, had been clogged with roots, and froze up last winter, I just replaced the 4" sewer pipe leading from my house to my septic tank.

But now the smell coming out of the main stack (outside) is really bad. I had never noticed any smell before. At certain times of day I can see it steaming. It's cold here so the warm smelly air drops down after leaving the pipe.

The 3" stack is located in a code approved location on the roof. I have a clean out near the septic tank and tried opening it to let the septic tank breath, but it hasn't helped so far.

The new pipe is about 100' downhill at roughly a 25 degree slope. It's all new pipe and sunk at least 12". There is snow on the ground here now.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

-- Howard


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RE: Sewer Smell

A Septic tank is not supposed to be vented because the active bacteria in a septic tank is anaerobic bacteria. Venting the tank would reduce the bacteria colony.

The leach bed functions by means of aerobic bacteria which permeates through the soil.


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RE: Sewer Smell

By its design a septic system HAS to be vented. The main sewer pipe from the house to the tank is vented in order to allow the pipe to drain. This pipe is a direct link to the contents of the tank.


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RE: Sewer Smell

By its design a septic system HAS to be vented.


the TANK is not vented on regular systems, but the house drain is. a septic tank should be almost 100% full of liquid at all times, there may be a small air pocket aobve the liquid, depending on how the tank is made. one of my tanks the leech field line comes out the side a couple inches below the top, so it has an air pocket. my other tank, for the back part of my house, the leech field pipe comes off the top it is below the level 0of the incoming drain pipe, but above the tank itself. in this tank no air may flow.


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RE: Sewer Smell

In order for the tank to operate the outlet is a few inches(2 inches on my tank)below the level of the intake. If the intake was lower than the outlet then no effluernt would flow into the tank as the level of liquid would be above the level of the intake. Therefore because the fluid level is below the level of the intake, and the intake is vented (to allow fluid to flow from the toilets, drains etc)in effect there is a vent of the tank.


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