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NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Posted by gnlinaz (My Page) on
Mon, Dec 27, 10 at 11:13

Does anyone have reviews about the Nuvo water conditioning system? My husband and I have been researching soft water systems and came across the NUVOH2O system. We like the idea of not having to seperate our outside and inside pipes. With the NUVO system you can run it through the pool. Any thoughts on this system?

Thanks.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

From their web site... "nuvoH2O is a water conditioning system that converts hard water into soft water"

Anything they say after that gross misrepresentation should be taken with a TON of salt.

There is no technical definition of conditioning water so they can say that, but unless they conduct a hardness test of the water AFTER it has been conditioned by their apparatus and it shows 0 hardness then they are not SOFTENING water.

To "soften" water is to remove calcium (among other things like iron) from water, not calcium deposits from pipes, and that is commonly done by one of two methods.

One method is ion exchange as done by a water softener. A water softener exchanges either sodium ions (if using NaCl) or potassium ions (if using KCl as a SALT SUBSTITUTE) for calcium (and other) ions in the hard water. That's it, no ifs, no ands, no buts, and no sales double talk. Simple chemistry and physics. Softening water is not black magic. It is physics and chemistry with a side of mechanics. No matter how hard sales people try (and want) to they can not violate the laws of physics or change the nature of chemical actions and reactions.

The other is by a filter and/or membrane technology or distillation, but no simple filter will remove calcium. You would need a reverse osmosis unit large enough to service your entire house. You would not want to pay for that big an RO nor pay for the service and routine maintenance it would require and RO water would be very aggressive in your plumbing and it would waste a lot of water.

NO magnet(ic) gizmo or electronic gizmo or "conditioner" will soften water but people waste their money on them EVERYDAY.

Check out this URL for one story http://www.nmsr.org/magnetic.htm and there are many more on the net if you Google.

Pick the right softener (not a box store brand), size it properly and get a competent install and you should get 10-15 years of reliable service.

The MOST IMPORTANT thing is that water treatment begins with a comprehensive water test so you know what needs to be treated or filtered out to get the quality water you want. Are you on a well or a water system? Do that and post the results so we might help.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I guess it depends on how you define "soft water."

If soft water is water that has had calcium and magnesium completely removed, then they're not giving you soft water - and justalurker is right.

But their claim that citric acid chelates calcium ions in order to make them neutral and non-reactive is spot on. We use chelation in cleaning supplies and to treat blood in the medical profession. The chemistry is there.

Salt softeners are a pain. Buying salt, running different lines to drinking water, wasting water, feeling slimy in the shower...I understand why you're looking, but it's important, like justalurker said, to be skeptical.

On a chemical level, I believe a system like this would work. I sure like the idea more than the magnetic hocus pocus.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

There is a scientific definition of soft water.

It is amusing reading you using guise of chemistry to support a conditioning process that ignores what chemistry says soft water is. You can be anion or cation (for chemistry buffs) but not both at the same time.

Softeners are no more of a pain than you make them...

Buying salt... no more of a pain than buying groceries or detergent or gas for the car. A properly sized and set up softener will in many csaes use one bag of salt a month.

Running different lines to drinking water... is unnecessary. Many who have softeners drink and cook with softened water. Water that is moderately to very hard can be treated with an RO under the kitchen sink for cooking, drinking, and ice cube making. Now, before you jump on the wasting water bandwagon, many, many people are buying bottled water in bulk and that bottled water is usually RO water and they drive to and from the bottled water machine or store consuming fossil fuels. Which is more wasteful and worse for the environment?

Wasting water... how and in what way? The water that runs to drain when the softener regenerates? Well, let's offset that water use with the benefits of soft water... longer service life for appliances, plumbing, and fixtures, clothes lasting longer and the savings realized from using far less soap and detergent.

Feeling slimy in the shower... you confuse feeling clean when showering with soft water with feeling minerals as you do when showering with hard water. When you've lived in darkness your whole life it is difficult to comprehend the light.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

If you go to the Amazon web site, you can find about 25 reviews for this device. There seems to be a wide array of opinion about its efficacy.

Here is a link that might be useful: nuvoH2O


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

If one takes the time to read those reviews the most dramatic softening of a customer's water was from 7 gpg to 5 gpg. Feed that puppy some 35 gpg hard water and let's see the test results.

Anyone with a scientific background would expect that a product based on a chemical action or reaction would have consistent results... either good or bad but with some consistency. I have not been able to find one single scientific article or report from any independent body that supports the claims NuvoH2O makes.

If all one is concerned with is water spots then the cost effective solution at everyone's fingertips is to dry the glassware immediately after washing. There you go, no water spots. But, with hard water you'll still be replacing appliances and fixtures and repairing faucets more often and your clothes won't be as soft or last as long as they would if you had soft water.

There is no magic bullet to water treatment. It is chemistry, physics, and mechanics... simple as that. A properly sized and correctly set up ion exchange water softener will provide 0 hardness water over a lengthy service life (decade or more) with easy maintenance and modest expense for regenerant.

Seems to me that if you're paying for soft water then you ought to get soft water.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"We use chelation in cleaning supplies ..."

Do tell.

Citric acid will attack calcium scale and dissolve it, but it is pretty far from chelation.

Just a simple acid attack on a base.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

No, the chemistry gels. Chelation is a process by which a polydentate ligand cradles a cation, holding it in suspension.

Calcium is a cation. Citric Acid is a polydentate ligand.

If you want a more visual representation, check out wikipedia. This graphic gives a perfect example of how chelation works.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Metal-EDTA.png

So yes, citric acid chelates calcium. In every-day language, this means that if you dump citric acid in your water, you can prevent calcium from causing you problems - IF YOU DO SO IN ENOUGH QUANTITY. Citric acid would also, as brickeyee mentions, attack existing calcium carbonate deposits, giving you a situation where you're preventing hard water deposits and removing them at the same time.

But this all comes down to concentration. I don't know how much you'd have to use, or in what quantity. I assume, since this company is marketing this product, that they feel they are treating the water at a high enough rate to get the results they advertise.

As for the hardness of the water, a hardness test is done by sending an electrical current through water and then measuring the amount of resistance to determine what the mineral content is. If these guys are chelating the minerals, it's not GOING to show in a hardness test. The Calcium ion is still present, so it will resist the electrical current, but it's held in suspension - which means it can't form calcium carbonate (hard water deposits).

Whether or not the company is legit, the chemistry IS. Now concentration...that's where I have questions.

lurker...do you work for Culligan or what? Those salt softeners are a pain.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

No, I don't work for Culligan but I can recognize scientific fact when I see it and live it as opposed to smoke and mirrors...

"No, the chemistry gels".

Great then show me some data on this product and not general chemistry discussion. Don't you think that if there was hard scientific data supporting this product that the manufacturer would post it or a link on their web site and offer the data for free to anyone who asked? Show me a single independent scientific review of the NuvoH20... just one.

"Those salt softeners are a pain"

Not as much of a pain as people who don't know what they don't know and still post...

"As for the hardness of the water, a hardness test is done by sending an electrical current through water and then measuring the amount of resistance to determine what the mineral content is".

Nope, what you are describing as a hardness test is a TDS (total dissolved solids) test. A TDS test is not limited to hardness while a hardness test is.

Instead of opening your mouth to change feet get your facts straight and then post so we can speak intelligently about water treatment.

Do you work for NuvoH2O?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

thegamewizard is correct about the chelating ability of citric acid. However - hardness testing ought to be done chemically, testing only for calcium and magnesium. Non-hardness dissolved solids will skew a resistance test.

Now, since you are new here, gamewizard, and clearly did not take the time to familiarize yourself with this board before posting, allow me to be the first to 1) welcome you and 2) provide a clue - justalurker has been generously assisting folks on this board for years. He is quite knowledgable about water softening and, though I do disagree with him at times, he is held in high regard here and is not affiliated with a water treatment company. It is silly to expect us to take you seriously if you begin with an insult. If you would care to share your credentials and affiliations with us, feel free to join the fray.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

".....a hardness test is done by sending an electrical current through water and then measuring the amount of resistance to determine what the mineral content is."

Sir or madame....you don't know what you're talking about. I don't either but I know more than that!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Only took about 2 seconds.

"Chelation is the formation or presence of two or more separate bindings between a polydentate (multiple bonded) ligand and a single central atom.[1] Usually these ligands are organic compounds, and are called chelants, chelators, chelating agents, or sequestering agents."

Simple acids like citric acid (full official name 3-carboxy-3-hydroxypentanedioic acid, formula C6H8O7) is NOT a chealting agent, and chelating is almost always used to describe specific biological processes, not simple acid base reactions.

Dissolving as base in an acid is NOT chelating.
The constituents of the base remain available for other reactions (though the presence of the acid obviously affects them).


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I will give you solid facts with citations, as I did in my previous post - and then I will go away.

http://www.jhbiotech.com/plant_products/chelation.htm

Directly from this article, brickeeye: "Citric acid is one of the organic acids commonly used as chelating agents."

Citric acid IS a chelating agent. It DOES suspend calcium ions in solution. Citric acid's ability as an acid to attack a base is completely beside the point.

To the others, you're right - I explained a TDS test rather than a hardness concentration test, and I apologize.

A hardness test measures the concentration of Ca2+ and MG2+ ions, both of which will STILL be detected when held in a chelative cradle. The bottom line is that a hardness test will still detect these cations, even though they are no longer able to form CaCO3. This means that you can't use a hardness test OR a TDS test to judge this product's efficiency.

Once again, this isn't smoke and mirrors - this is basic organic chemistry.

I came here to talk chemistry, I signed up as a user, I contributed accurate, cited information, and I got attacked.
??????????
The ironic part is that the only "incorrect" thing I have said relates to TDS tests, a process I explained accurately - it was only my application that was off. The point I was making about a normal hardness test not applying to the product in question is still valid.

From what I've experienced here I honestly expect another post from brickeeye missing the entire point, again, and making blatantly inaccurate chemical claims. I expect another post from lurker avoiding the truth of what I've said and claiming that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't know chemistry. If this is your example of an esteemed, tenured member's general conduct - I don't belong here.

I was honestly curious about lurker's affiliations, as everything he has said is very one dimensional. I asked a simple question, and said nothing insulting to anyone. However, the response I have received from your community is downright vicious. I contribute and you tell me I have my foot in my mouth and I "don't know what I don't know"? I come in halfway through a chemical discussion and add a very valid 2 cents with citations and you basically say " #1 -You're stupid. #2 - I want evidence that you could only give me if you worked for this company, which you cannot produce, so you're wrong. #3 - I'm going to play word games about TDS and avoid your point, which is valid, because that makes me uncomfortable - and it's easier to attack you than defend myself."

I do not work for Nuvo H2O. I don't know if their product works - I only know that the chemistry makes sense, and that your claims are based on bad chemistry. I have a glaring weakness: sometimes I can't just let wrong people be wrong. I should know better. My first post should have been agreeing lock-step with something someone was saying rather than daring to contradict them with scientific evidence.

My credentials? I'm just a college kid who loves science trying to figure out where I fit in. A board that welcomes intelligent new users with attacks, semantics, and a complete lack of chemical understanding is not the place for me. Don't worry, the door won't hit me on the way out.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Ah, youth... I remember when I was young and arrogant and stupid and couldn't be told anything because I knew more than anyone else. Time and experience are a great educator.

Gamewizard,.valuable lessons await you in life... pay attention. Now, run down to Student Health and have that chip on your shoulder removed.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Wow! This thread went off task.

All I wanted to know is if someone on here has actually USED this product and what they thought about it. I do not understand the chemistry of it nor care to. I also DO NOT want a salt softener. I would just like to talk to someone that has installed and used this product to ask them questions as opposed to just reading past reviews.

Thanks to all of you that were trying to help me out.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Agree with gnlinaz.

This board is starving for retail purchaser/user feedback on this topic.

Yo, thegamewizard....you need a thicker skin than that if you're going to debate in public forums here or anywhere else. I wish you'd hang around but I wish you well if you want to leave.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I suggest that the rush of current NuvoH2O owners who posted to offer you their insight suggests the insignificant market penetration the product has achieved. Hardly the mark of a groundbreaking, revolutionary, and REAL alternative to ion exchange softeners.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"As for the hardness of the water, a hardness test is done by sending an electrical current through water and then measuring the amount of resistance to determine what the mineral content is. "

Measuring the resistivity of water tells you if it is deionized (DI water).
It could tell you if it was soft, but there are a lot of things that can make water a conductor besides calcium.

DI water is actually a very good insulator.

DI water is used routinely in discharge machining, and to cool the windings of high power transformers and electromagnets (think cyclotrons and beam delivery magnets).

Larger electromagnets just use copper pipe as the winding.
The deionized water is then passed through to help keep things cool.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Just came across this forum looking for info on Nuvoh20 and oh the irony... "Ah, youth... I remember when I was young and arrogant and stupid and couldn't be told anything because I knew more than anyone else." Reading lurkers posts it seems the only part he's changed is going from young to old. This is really one of the higher regarded posters on this site?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Actually, yes. He can be cranky (unlike you, of course) but he knows stuff. And he's helped countless people here understand things that they didn't before and solve problems they wouldn't have been able to without him or somebody like him.

I've locked horns with him several times. He's also saved me a ton of money and aggravation via the advice he's given.

Time comes you've done anything to compare, I'll listen to you, too.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I've installed a unit at parents house and after installation clothes were coming out of washing machine cleaner.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"This board is starving for retail purchaser/user feedback on this topic."

"I've installed a unit at parents house and after installation clothes were coming out of washing machine cleaner."

Did you actually measure the hardness of the water to see if the device was doing anything?

"Clothes were coming out of washing machine cleaner" is hardly an actual verification the thing does anything.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

The bottom line is that Chelation, Magnetics or any other sort of so called binding processes do NOT remove hardness and hard water problems will continue to occur in the home. As water settles on any surface this bond breaks down and calcium deposits are left behind. As water is heated these bonds are broken and calcium precipitates. One thing everyone fails to mention is if there is ANY iron in the water none of these devices serve to treat the iron whatsoever! In fact it is recommended by these device manufacturers to have iron removed from the water supply prior to applying these devices. Whereas a water softening system will remove clear water iron, hardness and a certain amount of heavy metals such as lead along with helping to remove Arsenic V when it is bound to ferrous iron. The only means to achieve this is by ion exchange. Adding citric acid as a binding agent to a copper plumbing system only serves to acidify the water and cause corrosion of the plumbing system along with expediting the erosion of anode rods in water heaters. I am curious as to the outcome of the application of a Nuvoh2o system on a water supply that is already acidic, 6.5PH, that would be a potential nightmare.
RJ


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Like bbs and cb radios, a half dozen regulars believe the site is theirs.
Enjoy each other,because no one new will join your little club!
Like it or not facts are only part of what people are looking for.
All your knowledge is of no use if no one wants it from YOU!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"....no one new will join your little club! "

Actually, new people show up all the time and many become "regulars". They come and go. This site, like most others, kind of "breathes" that way. Good, healthy stuff, IMHO.

"Like it or not facts are only part of what people are looking for."

Ah...clairvoyant, too, are we? What part(s) were you looking for? Or are you just a another fly-by whiner?

If you've got something to bring to the table, put it out there. Otherwise have a nice day. Bye.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Oh, holy cow! Now, I acknowledge those that know about the chemical make-up of the various processes. Unfortunately, the salt water softeners have had at least 30-40 years of use to prove it is or is not beneficial. What is the outcome? Polluted ground as well as water by the high concentration of salt, and, although not worried about the cost of back-washing, it is a waste of water. Now,I do not have to be a chemist to know these facts. I believe what the original poster is asking, is this (nuvoh2o) more benign, and even if not removing iron, can it be a benefit to our systems and appliances in reducing the amount of build up and break down of piping and machinery. I am sorry you die hard salt water softener supporters are offended, but there are those of us that do not want to pollute the ground water with more than it is already doing so with the salt, not to mention all the cleaning chemicals, medical deposits, etc outside the cleaning process. Please do not berate us for looking for a better way of cleaning our water. Thank you, and be nice to each other!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Please buy one and tell us how it works for you.

PS: None of these devices (nor ion-exchange softeners) claims to "clean" the water. You appear to have a mistaken idea about that.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"but there are those of us that do not want to pollute the ground water"

Then do not discharge backwash onto the ground.

Send it into the sanitary system like most people.

Not all areas of the country have water problems.
Many of us paid for impounds and planning to make sure that even in a drought there is adequate water.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried."
--Winston Churchill


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I think it would be helpful to note a few things:

1. Let's accept that "softening water" is a defined term for removing calcium, magnesium and other stuff, such as iron.

2. Let's also accept that, at present, no other method softens water other than salt-type ion exchange, RO or distillation.

3. In addition, let's recognize that there is a lot of misinformation about products that claim to soften or "condition" water through various means including magnets, etc. The science of which seems to be deliberately misleading and mercurial.

Given the misinformation, it's important to bring facts to the table, not anecdotes. The anecdotes are often distorted by the consumer wanting to see the result that he/she paid for and not appear foolish.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"I hated the slick feeling in the shower our old salt system left on our skin. "

That is what soft water feels like.

You are actually cleaner, and since the hard water has not left calcium (and other dissolved solids) behind on your skin.
Soaps are also more effective with soft water.

You have just shown the nuvoH2O does NOT produce soft water.

Congratulations.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"I hated the slick feeling in the shower our old salt system left on our skin"

That is the feeling of natural oils and skin NOT the feeling of soft water.

So those of you who want hard water can contact Cole, nuvoH2O, or just not treat your hard water and save money... either of those three choices will result in the hard water you start with.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Actually, the reason that you feel 'slimy' using soft water for showering is not natural oils. It's the fact that soft water doesn't remove soap residue as well as hard water. See the following article by a chemistry professor:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jul2001/996090332.Ch.r.html

Here is a link that might be useful: With soft water why can't we rinse off all the soap?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

No I disagree brickeyee and justalurker. That slick and slimy feeling IS salt residue. I can feel and taste it. You can't tell me there is no noticeable salt left behind from salt-based water softeners if I cannot water my plants with the treated water. The plants will die.

nuvoH2O uses Chelation to treat hard water issues. Many shampoos and other detergents commonly use a chelant to overcome hard water in the wash and bath. nuvoH2O uses an FDA approved, food-grade chelant that treats all the water in the home.

There is no reason to discuss testing treated water from a nuvoH2O system for grains hardness because nuvoH2O does not remove the minerals from the water. The Chelation process focuses on the pH level and lowering it to a balanced level of around 7.0. If the pH is balanced scale and calcium cannot form. If the minerals in the water cannot form or stick hard water is not an issue.

Here is a link that might be useful: Chelation - Wikipedia


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"That slick and slimy feeling IS salt residue. I can feel and taste it. You can't tell me there is no noticeable salt left behind from salt-based water softeners if I cannot water my plants with the treated water. The plants will die"

I can tell you that NO ion exchange softener that is correctly sized and operating properly adds SALT to hard water to soften it.

Ion exchange softeners exchange sodium or potassium ions for calcium ions to soften water. The chlorides that make either compound a salt are sent to drain IF the softener is correctly sized and operating properly.

Chemistry 101...
Sodium chloride is a SALT... sodium is an element.
Potassium chloride is a SALT... potassium is an element.

Don't debate chemistry when you don't know the difference between an element and a salt. There's more to chemistry than Wikipedia...


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Hi all. I just came across the infomercial on TV for the NuvoH2O system and decided to research it. It led me to this thread you have going. I have read it in its entirety and could not help but respond to it.

I am a skeptic by training myself but am always looking for new technologies that could be of benefit to me both personally and professionally. I am the Vice President of Engineering at a large manufacturing company. I have spent 25 years in plant maintenance and utilities roles and have installed many large scale water conditioning systems, including ion exchange, RO, DI, gravity bed filtration, vortex separation, and chemical precipitation. I have trialed many new technologies. Some work others do not. This particular thread is a bit disturbing in that there seems to be a strong flavor to sway people away from a potential new technology. Chelation is a chemically viable process used in many industries today. Applying it to water treatment is a logical progression. The bigger question is can it be done in an economical way. The reasons for treating water are various so one technology does not serve every need. The objective of softening water is not to lower the hardness per say, but to address the issues that result from calcium precipitation in the system. If chelation can prevent precipitation than whether the water is hard or soft is irrelevant.

Back in the late 1400s the world was still flat but now it is round. It wasn't that long ago that the sun apparently revolved around the earth, of course we all know that is not the case. History has shown that sometimes we are not as smart as we think. I would even say that before ion exchange systems become generally used, it was considered hocus pocus water treatment.

When people open their minds to new opportunities and technologies that is when breakthroughs and advancements really occur. Saying things are not possible just shows the limits of ones mind to the facts of the day and not of the future.

Thanks for your time.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

As usual the point is missed...

It is NOT "a strong flavor to sway people away from a potential new technology".

It is a reluctance of intelligent thinklers to accept fraudulent misrepresentation when the new technology tries to get it's foot in the door by claiming to SOFTEN water.

Membrane technology, distillation, chelation, and other processes are valid in the correct application and are backed up by solid science and are accepted by many in this thread and on this forum you accuse of reluctance.

If they don't claim their process or device softens water then that's fine. They can claim their process or device does whatever they want but it does not soften water. When they do claim that it does then they better back that statement up with solid independent data or shut up.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I would like to make an attempt here to mediate between the two sides. Let me start with some credentials. I have a BS in Chemistry and a MS Chemical Engineering. Also, I am 47, so I have real life experience.
While justalurker is technically correct in what he is saying, I believe he is totally missing the point. A general complaint that I have with human nature is too often people ask for what they want someone to do instead of asking for what they want. This often leads to poor results. You may ask how does that apply here. Well, I beleive that what people want from their water is for their skin to feel good after showering, for their clothes to come out cleaner while using less soap, and for their appliances to not scale up. However, some in this discussion are debating about whether the NuvoH2o softens the water or not. From a strict definition of water softening, it doesn't. However, as the gamewizard was trying to point out, the chemistry that the Nuvo uses may very well work to have the water act like it is softened. He never claimed that it worked, just that the chemistry is sound. I agree with him, and suggest that those attacking him consider that people only ask for soft water because they like the results, not because they really want soft water. So if something else can give those results, well then great.
There is another post that does bring up some sound counter agruments, though. rjh20 brings up a good point for those that have iron in the water, and his acidic argument also makes sense to me.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"He never claimed that it worked, just that the chemistry is sound."

So what.

Operating as desired is the desired outcome, not just sound chemistry.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

The point is that from your quote below, you will only recognize this device as being effective if it shows that it produces soft water. The original question is does it work? From your quote you dismiss functional effectiveness, when that is exactly what the original question asks. This was even clarified later when the original author said he doesn't care about the chemistry.

"Did you actually measure the hardness of the water to see if the device was doing anything?

""Clothes were coming out of washing machine cleaner"" is hardly an actual verification the thing does anything."


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Word games aside...

At their website http://www.nuvoh2o.com/ they claim "A better way to soften water". There is a scientific definition defining the softening process and they don't come close... not even in the same ballpark. All they have to do is prove that their device reduces the hardness one grain and they can scientifically and morally make the statements they are currently making... but they don't because they can't.

They go on to say "Enjoy healthy, salt-free soft water" again invoking a description of their product's results on hard water that is scientifically defined.

Since they choose to promote and advertise that their product has an effect on water that is scientifically defined they must meet that definition or they are, at the least, misrepresenting their product and what it does.

Devices that distill water remove hardness and the result is DISTILLED water not softened water.

When making a scientific argument there is no technically correct... there is true or false.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Thank you all on this board from saving me from wasting $600. I have a B.S. and M.S. in science/engineering fields, but am now a psychiatrist buying a new home with hard water and saw this on an infomercial and not being an idiot, started to research it. Amazon.com reviews are either glowing or horrible - with nothing inbetween, and many accusations are that the glowing reports are by employees with little to no history of contributing other reviews, whereas the horrible reviews are by users who frequently review products, and are likely more legitimate. I don't know how true it is, but I just found it striking that there were no 3 or mediocre ratings.

In psychiatry, I can give a depressed patient a sugar pill and there will be a 35% chance he'll get better (vs 50% improvement with a real antidepressant). The placebo effect is high for mental disorders. It becomes higher if people attribute a higher cost to the placebo - either higher price or higher expected side effects.

At $600 - this is one darn good placebo, and any non nuvo employee on here that actually thinks it cleans pipes, reduces needed soap, and possibly even "softens" water (how that is defined I'll leave up to you experts) - is just experiencing the placebo effect. Those people would "benefit" from anything, including the magnet based water "softeners", and sometimes the more expensive the "treatment"- the greater the placebo effect is. I can only imagine the claims if it cost $2000. Or $10,000. Then people might say it reverses aging.

Unfortunately - many of you are preaching to the choir on here, for anyone who does the slightest bit of research/due diligence will not buy this. Only fools and idiots (my personal opinion) will buy it - BUT some of them will honestly think it is helping, and for them - maybe its not such a horrible purchase if the placebo effect unknowingly makes them feel better. I really don't care if my patients get better because of the placebo effect or if the medication is really working for them - I'm just glad they get better.

I wish there was some new technology, but it looks like I'll look into a salt based system, although i do need to research how much water is wasted - the nuvo infomercial claims you waste 4 gallons of water to make one gallon of softened water and since many communities base the sewer cost on the water consumption - that can add up to expensive water/sewer costs. But at least it works and isn't placebo. Thanks all for saving me money and more importantly time.

On a side note - I wonder if $600 is the magic placebo cost, for there was a radio ad series about a device that had platinum in it that supposedly increased your vehicle miles per gallon by 25%. It too cost $600. And I think they used five dollar words like chelation in their ad. With all the pressure car manufacturers have to increase the fleet MPG - you'd think they would all install these devices. There must really be a sucker born every minute.


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"....the nuvo infomercial claims you waste 4 gallons of water to make one gallon of softened water...."

This must be a mistaken memory. Can't imagine even the most aggressive of pitch-men making such a blatantly false assertion. Perhaps they were talking about 40-year old RO systems. Certainly not softeners.


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Average water use per person per day in the US is 60 gallons. A correctly sized softener set up for efficient operation uses about 50 gallons of water to regenerate. Two people will use about 840 gallons of water in a seven day period and the softener will use 50 gallons to regenerate.

Or keep that AZ hard water with the added wear and tear on your clothes, plumbing, fixtures, and appliances alone with the added money you'll spend on soap and detergents. A correctly sized and set up ion exchange softener is far more cost effective.

Four gallons of water wasted for one gallon to use sounds more like an inefficient reverse osmosis unit. Even at 4:1 that's more environmentally responsible than driving to the store using gas and emitting hydrocarbons to buy bottled water (in plastic bottles that won't degrade) for the three gallons or so of RO water your family will use per day to drink, cook, and make ice cubes.


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"This must be a mistaken memory. Can't imagine even the most aggressive of pitch-men making such a blatantly false assertion. Perhaps they were talking about 40-year old RO systems. Certainly not softeners."

Nope - the Nuvo infomercial, as well as the blurbs on their website actually say softeners waste 4 gallons for every gallon of soft water they produce. They say it repeatedly. Charlatans.


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Once you blatantly lie and misrepresent there's nothing else to do but continue to do it...


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Of all the things I imagined myself doing this weekend, brushing up on my organic chemistry had to be at the bottom of that list. Until my wife mentioned that our old water softener was dying and asked if I could research some alternatives.
This is only one of dozens of sites I've visited, and the only one on which I've posted. (Except for Amazon, where I asked one invidual to update his running evaluation of this system). This process has made me lose more faith in the value of information on the internet than any other on-line exercise I've ever done. But I have to weigh in on some of the arrogance and foolishness that has been posted in this thread. I guess the tipping point for me was how rudely a well-meaning young college chemistry student (thegamewizard) was tread, especially "in the name of science". And there's some really bad science being posted by some "well regarded members".

Where to start? Let's start with the OP's question: "Does anyone have reviews about the Nuvo water conditioning system?" They didn't ask "Does it convert hard water into soft water", or "Does it completely remove calcium and magnesium from my water supply", or "what is the exact precise definition of 'soft water'". But those seem to be the only questions that justalurker and brickeyee are interested in debating.
Before I continue, I (like several others posting here including utahikerguy, gamewizard, aliceinwonderland, jakethewonderdog, and moldme1 - among others) do not own this product or have any practical knowledge as to its effectiveness in eliminating any or all of the problems caused by hard water. As many have stated before, the chemistry IS sound, despite all the hyperbole made to the contrary (I'll get to that in a minute). But there are several pertinent questions here:

1. In a household environment including constant heating and frequent evaporation of water, does water treated through chelation exhibit the same same negative traits as hard water or does it provide the positive benefits of ion-exchange softened water? (I don't know the answer)

2. How does this NuvoH20 device maintain the pH level of the water if it isn't constantly monitoring the pH, and is a significant percentage of the calcium and magnesium sequestered over the stated 6 month life of the "filter" (which seems to me more like a timed-release mechanism for the citric acid, as well as providing a structure that encourages mechanical mixing) - I also don't know the answer to this.

3. Are we incorrectly equating a white powder residue with scale and scum? Chemically, I think we are. Practically speaking - I don't know. Chemistry says that the calcium is still there because it's only been sequestered, not eliminated. What we're really concerned with is the mechanical effect of the residue on pipes, heating elements, fixtures, clothes and dishes. Does it in fact harden to the same level as scale when heated and evaporated in the dishwasher? Is it as damaging to the fibers of clothing in powder form as we know scale is? Does enough of the calcium disassociate with the citric acid to form scale in pipes, water heaters, fixtures, etc?

4. Why does the company claim that the system "softens" the water if it doesn't actually remove the calcium and magnesium? There are two answers here. One, I don't know where justalurker gets his definition of "softening", but there seem to be many definitions out there. Many chemical companies, including Dow Chemical, consider chelation to be a type of water softening (but what the heck do they know). If you consider a widely accepted definition of water softening, it addresses the reduction of the concentration of calcium, magnesium, and certain other metal ions in hard water. When you consider that sequestered metals are no longer loose ions, chelation does meet the definition. The other simple answer involves marketing. Most people searching on the internet don't Google "Water Chelating Systems". Except me. This weekend.

As for the 4 gallons lost per every gallon claim, I did not see the informercial, so I can't comment. The only similar reference I found on their site is that it "...uses up to 4x less water than others...", which is really a meaningless statement, probably thought up by someone in the marketing department in loose reference to RO systems. I hate misleading and fluff marketing as much as anyone. But if you swear-off every product that has ever used dubious, misleading, or overly optimistic language in it's marketing material, you will die starving and naked in a field somewhere.

5. Why are independent (unbiased) performance test results of the system so hard to come-by? This bothers me more than anything else. I emailed the company today and asked for either a PDF or links to independent test results. I will post their reply here should I get one.

6. Why have so many company employees/family/friends posted glowing reports on Amazon.com? This is also worrisome, especially considering the great lengths some of those folks went to in order to appear legitimate. The conspiracy theorist's answer to this is that it's all part of the scam. The optimist could answer that they have all bought and installed the product and genuinely like it. Without much evidence to go on, I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Now, I've been pretty hard on justalurker and brickeyee, but don't feel bad for them because, as asolo pointed-out, you need thick skin if you're going to debate in public forums. Let me point out just a few problems and points:

justalurker: "To "soften" water is to remove calcium (among other things like iron) from water,..." According to who's definition? I believe that the entire chemical industry would disagree with that narrow definition. Here's a good article from Dow Chemical about how their chelating agents are better than common ones like Citric Acid (note "Soften process water" on last page):
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_003d/0901b8038003db82.pdf?filepath=versene/pdfs/noreg/113-01259.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

brickeyee: "...Simple acids like citric acid (full official name 3-carboxy-3-hydroxypentanedioic acid, formula C6H8O7) is NOT a chealting agent,...". Wow. Just wow! Google "Citric Acid Chelation". You'll get 784,000 hits. I don't think they're all planted by the folks from nuvo. Please provide even ONE link to back up that statement.

brickeyee: "...Dissolving as base in an acid is NOT chelating. " This is correct, and worth pointing out that this (a lower pH) might be what is removing some of the scale in existing pipes/fixtures in certain installations.

justalurker: "...That is the feeling of natural oils and skin NOT the feeling of soft water" and "...you confuse feeling clean when showering with soft water with feeling minerals as you do when showering with hard water.
Wrong again. It's the glycerin in the soap and the soft water's relative inability to remove it from your skin (compared to hard water).

justalurker: "Ah, youth... I remember when I was young and arrogant and stupid and couldn't be told anything because I knew more than anyone else. Time and experience are a great educator. " From everything I've read here, I totally agree with cm3399 on this one.

I could go on, but I won't. But I will address justalurker's basic premise, which is that because the company is factually incorrect (lying, in his opinion) about their claim to soften water, then everything else they're doing or saying is invalidated. Using this logic, considering the false statements made in this thread, we would have to invalidate everything that justalurker and brickeyee have said here. Which would also be wrong, because much of what they've said IS correct, just in a generally rude and condescending way. As for someone accusing justalurker of working for Culligan, that's exactly what I thought when I read this thread (not necessarily Culligan, but you get the idea). I'd be fascinated to hear from any non-aligned party who's read this thread and didn't think otherwise. It would also be easy to accuse me of having an affiliation with Nuvo, which couldn't be further from the truth. The fact is, unless they send me some good, convincing independent lab results for their system, I'm going to go with a traditional ion-exchange softener for all the reasons stated here. Good scientists and engineers adhere to the motto: "In God We Trust, all others bring data", and I agree with that.

Now the truth in advertising part. I am a software engineer with the Boeing Corporation (all commentary made here is my own and does not reflect that of Boeing, etc., etc.) , with a Master of Science degree in Computer Science from the University of Texas. I am also a woodworker, home brewer, and manual laborer for my Master Gardener wife as we try to be good stewards of three acres in West by God Virginia. I'm sorry if this reads like an attack on two individuals, but if you've read this far through the thread you'll understand why and won't let it detract from the original discussion of the product.


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justalurker: "...That is the feeling of natural oils and skin NOT the feeling of soft water" and "...you confuse feeling clean when showering with soft water with feeling minerals as you do when showering with hard water.
Wrong again. It's the glycerin in the soap and the soft water's relative inability to remove it from your skin (compared to hard water).

This is the only one I will address, because it is such a common misconception that it bears further discussion.

BobinWV would be correct technically, but not practically, IF:

1) You were using soap. However, that would be unusual in the modern world. What most people call soap is actually detergent, which has a different chemical formula, with different properties entirely. Specifically, it rinses completely in soft water. Laundry, dish, and hand "soaps" are detergents if they are liquids, unless you use castille soap which is pretty rare. You could still be using bar soaps, but, frankly many of them are also actually detergents now.

2) If you are actually using soap, rather than detergent, you would have to be washing laboratory clean skin for your statement to be true entirely true. If there is any dirt on your skin, your skin would be better rinsed in soft water for one simple reason. Soap, when it contacts calcium and magnesium (and a few other, but less concentrated minerals) sequesters them, basically surrounding them in a sticky conglomeration. The old soap-scum rings in bathtubs - that's what it is - soap and dirt. It doesn't rinse well because it sticks. So, if your water is hard, you get more stickiness, which is more difficult to rinse off, making skin squeaky. If you have soft water, you rinse off more completely because there is less of the sticky residue. Now, if you have an excess of soap (more than is necessary to sequester the dirt) then, yes, you will have a portion of glycerin left on your skin which may not rinse completely, but the effect is not of skin that is still dirty. In hard water, you are less likely to have the excess glycerin because it is so difficult to achieve an excess ratio of soap:calcium because of the calcium in the water.

Water chemistry is complicated, which is why googling it without prior knowledge generally provides just enough information to be dangerous, but not enough for understanding. Most folks are just ignorant (please don't see that as insulting, it's just factual, indicating lack of knowledge, not implying stupidity at all), which explains your lack of understanding of soap/detergent and lurker and brickeye's lack of understanding of chelation. I very much appreciate your willingness to investigate and even tone, but calling people out with an "I googled it" argument can be problematic as I can locate arguments for nearly anything:

The earth is flat: http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

Elitist powers are trying to kill us with chemtrails: http://educate-yourself.org/ct/

Vaccines hurt, don't help: http://educate-yourself.org/vcd/

Welcome to the fray - I hope you'll stick around. I think you'll find that, although we can be a cranky bunch, we provide as much time as we can spare to help people for nothing but the occasional "thank you."

For myself, most of these no-salt device companies make me just plain angry. I've seen them try to sell to industry, to knowledgeable people, and when they failed there, they revamped their business model to sell to the general public which is typically chemistry-ignorant. I hate to see people separated from their hard-earned money by a company who's basic premise starts with deception. As to this particularly company, I can reserve a little bit of judgement as part of their tech is sound. BUT, I have a huge problem with what is either ignorance or deception on their part regarding 1) specifically how their product works, 2) differentiating their tech from softening using incorrect information. If they truly don't understand, then how can they produce a good product? If they truly do understand but lie, how can they be trusted to do what they say? All other arguments aside, this is the reason I caution people about this particular product.


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BobinWV,

I have stated many times on this forum and I'll repeat it now for your benefit... I am not affiliated with any water treatment equipment manufacturer, distributor, or retailer. Sometimes a little forum searching is worth the time instead of jumping to an unsupported conclusion.

"I'm going to go with a traditional ion-exchange softener for all the reasons stated here. Good scientists and engineers adhere to the motto: "In God We Trust, all others bring data", and I agree with that" ... and I agree with that also and add that competent techs want data too but to those in the field the how questions are more important than the why questions so I apologize if my ability to explain my positions falls short of your expectations. All your other comments notwithstanding, you arrived at the same data supported position where I have been for decades.

There are many awaiting alternative softening technologies to prove themselves scientifically and we'll both welcome the data so we can evaluate those alternatives based on our needs.


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I appreciate your clarification, and I guess I used the wrong term practically speaking when I said glycerine. I actually liked the link provided by Marv_2010, and I didn't think it fair for me to paraphrase it:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/jul2001/996090332.Ch.r.html

With that being said, I think you missed some of my points. I used the "slimy/slick feeling on skin" issue as an example of misinformation being propogated here. The same can be said for those saying it's the salt (jump in the ocean at the beach and tell me how slimy your skin feels afterwards - assuming you're not in North Jersey).

As for my googling example, I didn't just go to the Google home page and see how many hits I got and call it a day. I read (at lest the abstracts, more if available online) many articles from sources considerably more reliable than the flat earth society (Dow Chemical, Dupont, and the American Chemical Society, to name but a few). I did not, however, spend the night in a Holiday Inn Express, so I don't claim to have become a full fledged biochemist in one weekend. If you equate those sites I mentioned with the ones you offered, then I don't know what to say.

However, without repeating my entire post, it all boils down to three issues, and I'd appreciate your opinion on them.
1. Is the chemistry sound (i.e. does chelation work)?
2. End-to-end, can properly chelated water provide the same benefits as water treated by traditional ion-exchange treatment systems?
3. If 1 and 2 are "yes", does THIS system adequately chelate the calcium and magnesium in the water to bring about those effects over the stated life of the filter/medium (6 months).

I can see you're maybe as wrapped-around-the-axle as justalurker is on the use of the word "softening" in their advertising as a "deception." I cannot disagree with you more on this point, but ultimately we are arguing semantics. I promise you that I can provide you as many good legitimage sources (not flat earth crap) that include chelation as a "softening process" as you can find that do not. But that would be a pointless exercise.

Is this company dodgy? I think I stated a LOT of reasons in my earlier post why I'm afraid that they might be. But again, the marketing department and engineering department tend to be in different parts of the building, so I'm at least willing to give them the opportunity to make the case that their product works, and back it up with independent test results. If it does, that would be VERY exciting news for all of us except the ones with a vested interest in salt based systems. If not, then I guess I'll continue to slowly turn my septic drain field into a pillar of salt. Peace.


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BobibWV,

We are in agreement that the marketing and engineering departments of MANY companies are located in parallel universes let alone different buildings.

I was with you there until the "pillar of salt" remark. A correctly sized softener set up to operate efficiently should have no such effect on your septic tank or leach field and there are numerous studies supporting that statement.

If you care to post results of a comprehensive water test and some details about your environment and water usage I'll be happy to suggest correct softener sizing then you'll at least be operating your softener at peak efficiency until a viable alternative shows up.


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No semantics for me....and I suspect for very few in the actual retail marketplace. For Joe and Sally Average -- and for me -- what I've seen a little bit of and read for years on this forum is......

1) Buyers of ion-exchange softeners buy the equipment and it works. They can feel it and measure it more-or-less immediately upon installation. They can also monitor it continuously or occasionally to be sure it stays working. They can see it in decreased or eliminated scaling and faucet deposits, vastly reduced detergent requirements, and longer appliance life. Mostly, they don't care how it works. They just observe that it does.

2) Buyers of "alternative" systems wait and wonder.....and often post here asking what to think and what to look for to discern whether its working or not. Observationally, they continue to be uncertain even if hopeful.

I can't argue chemistry with chemists or science with scientists. I just need something I can afford that works and doesn't give me grief. I am hopeful that working alternative systems will become available. Maybe they are and I just don't know it. However, like most I think, I'm just another retail customer and I can't afford to be anyone's beta-tester. I need results I can observe and depend on. For decades -- and right now -- that's ion exchange. Somebody else will have to experiment with the others and let me know when they've got it figured out.


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justalurker: Agreed, I'll see what I can come up with. I have an old timer based softener. I go through about 4-6 bags of salt a year, and I can only assume that the salt is ending up in either my septic tank or my drain field.

Let's say I average 200 pounds of salt a year; over the last 15 years I've run 3000 pounds of salt through my system. I admit that I haven't had time to google this yet (just kidding, just kidding), so I am possibly leaving something important out of my equation. I will actually feel much better in this case to be wrong.


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asolo - I don't disagree with you. But, you said "...Somebody else will have to experiment with the others and let me know when they've got it figured out."

Isn't that what the original poster asked?

For clarification, I have an "old, timer-based" softener, as opposed to an "old-timer based" softener. I don't want anyone to think I have an elderly gent sequesterd in my basement.


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BobibWV,

Based on the water conditions, # of people, # of bathrooms, and SFR of the plumbing we can compute the most efficient size softener for your circumstances.

Curiously though... you mentioned that your ion exchange softener was dying... not that it hadn't given yeoman's service or that your leach field had failed due to salt overdose or that your septic tank had corroded through like an east coast street from highway salt so I gather that ion exchange softening has been berry, berry, good to you so far.

How about replacing that dying, inefficient, timer based, softener with a correctly sized demand initiated softener and in a decade or two when that softener will require re-bedding perhaps an alternative technology that will have proven itself will be available?

BTW, septic experts I've talked to all offer the same remark... "all septic fields begin to die the day they are put into service and sooner or later will need to be rested". My septic field was installed in 1987 and was just diverted to an alternate field to allow it a couple years to recover.


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Bob - I was addressing the soap issue alone, as i believe I stated, and did not address the definition of softening. Please refrain from putting words in my mouth - it aggravates me, as I am sure it would were I doing the same to you. Neither was I equating the websites, merely making a point via exaggeration, interjecting a little humor. Tone is difficult when writing.

Defining softening as the removal of calcium and magnesium is partially a semantics argument, but there are some practical differences between removal and sequestration that make it an important distinction. It is true that removing calcium and magnesium is softening. It is also true that chemicals the bind calcium and magnesium are called softeners. Of those, there are two types - precipitating and chelating. The precipitating types cause calcium and magnesium to drop out of solution where chelating causes them to stay in solution. Both give some benefit as if the water were soft. Precipitations can redissolve and chelations may be broken by changes such as a change in pH or temperature, at which point you have hard water again. That is why we always point out the difference.

Their use of the word softening to describe their system is dodgy, but not entirely false. The deception I was actually referring to was their insistence that a traditional softener wastes 4 gallons for every gallon it produces. That statement, which they repeat loudly and often, cannot be excused by saying it's simply marketing. It's false, blatantly so.

As to your questions:

1) Yes, chelation works (which is why I previously state I could give them some benefit of the doubt). You need to understand, however, that there are strong chelating agents and week ones. Citric acid is the latter. The reason it was chosen for this system, I assume, is that is safe for human consumption. Most strong chelating agents are not.

2) This question is a little more complex. For the sake of argument, let us assume by properly chelated you mean that all of the hardness ions are sequestered. Then, yes, properly chelated water would likely provide the same benefit as softening, with one exception. There would still be build-up wherever water was allowed to dry. It's possible the buildup would be less tenacious than hardness scale, but I don't know if this would make an appreciable difference in cleaning effort or not.

3) Under ideal conditions, it could possibly be an improvement over hard water with no treatment. However, those ideal conditions would include tightly controlled pH (to ensure the correct form of chelated calcium is formed), temperature, contact time, and the ratio of citrate to calcium + magnesium + iron + manganese + a few other metals. As this system is incapable of doing any of those things, the short answer is NO.


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As I mentioned earlier, I emailed them and asked about indedpendent test results. Here's what I've received:

Hi Bob, thanks for inquiring about our salt free water softening system. I'm not sure which lab results you are referring to, but I will check with my manager about it and get back to you. (followed by another paragraph of the standard marketing sales pitch)

alice - I think we are in violent agreement (or non-violent, as the case may be). Here is an article (half paper, half marketing document) from Dow that talks about the effects of pH and temperature on weak chelating agents like citric acid in comparison to their own (not for human consumption, though). It's a quick read with graphs and pictures, and may help others who might be interested:

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDOWCOM/dh_003d/0901b8038003db82.pdf?filepath=versene/pdfs/noreg/113-01259.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc

I'm just not as quick as you are to arrive at the definitive "NO" answer on #3 - at least not until I've seen some data. If they don't provide the data, then I'm right there with you.

justalurker - You're right, all things considered, my old unit has given me good reliable service. Now that I think about it, other than our refrigerator, it is the only original appliance left in the house since it was built nearly 16 years ago. We've had four service calls on it, all for the same thing. Wish I could say the same for my oven, dishwasher, water heater, etc. When it's gone, I will post a little picture of it on the refrigerator and hope I remember to set it aside when that, too, is wheeled-away. ;-) Seriously, though, I will get you some numbers. I'm guessing the SFR will be capped at 7gpm, since that is what our well is rated (now I'm REALLY out of my element), but I don't know how that is controlled/limited by our installed equipment (well pump limited, maybe?).


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A semantic dispute is a disagreement that arises if the parties involved disagree about whether a particular claim is true, not because they disagree on material facts, but rather because they disagree on the definitions of a word (or several words) essential to formulating the claim at issue.
It is sometimes held that semantic disputes are not genuine disputes at all. But very often they are regarded as perfectly genuine, e.g., in philosophy.
It is also sometimes held that when a semantic dispute arises, the focus of the debate should switch from the original thesis to the meaning of the terms of which there are different definitions (understandings, concepts, etc.).

For example soft water doesn't equal softened water. The suffix "en" means 'become' or 'makes into'. Lengthen, darken, sharpen, etc. To soften water is the removal of hardness minerals and I would argue not masking them or sequestering them. In other words, convert hard water into soft water. And that's what a softENer does.

Naturally soft water doesn't need to be softened. Soap will behave differently in soft water vs softened water. Ivory Soap is an excellent example of a 'pure' soap. Wash your hands in softened water and then in distilled water, you will see a different reaction.

Semantics may be the very issue here, and not so much in philosophy as in pragmatism. In this case, we see in marketing. When your plumber says: "Whew, man, you have really hard water and it will kill your heater, washer, shower, ad nauseum, you need a softener." And then a customer goes on line and sees these advertised "non-salt water softeners" he is being duped into believing he is following professional advice by buying one.

If that same ad said: "this calcium-descaling media will not provide the benefits of softened water," would their marketing department be hired for the next fiscal year?


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This is a frustrating thread but clearly the most helpful around. There are three questions I have.
1) will it improve our skin, our hands are bleeding. One of my friends installed it in November and loves it. Even with a non-BS web review, I'm worried
2) Is it safe to drink this so called weak chelating agent. I've have seen nothing to validate it's safe
3) this ones for justalurker, what do you think the best tradition salt base system is, since I'm probably headed that way

we need to do something, soon.


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"...what do you think the best tradition salt base system is..."

IMO the best ion exchange softener is comprised of industry standard components so tech info is readily available for FREE and parts are readily available at modest prices. The best softener must be correctly sized for the water conditions and water usage and plumbing. The best softener will be set up to operate efficiently so the least amount of water and salt is consumed in regeneration. The best softener will be reasonably priced, will be reliable with minimal maintenance, and provide 0 hardness water for a long time.


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Here’s an update as promised:
I’ve been going around and around with the folks at Nuvo trying to get some documented test results for their system. For those of you old enough to remember the Monty Python Cheese Shop skit, it’s gone a lot like that, only not quite as funny. In summary, I keep emailing them asking for test results, and they keep saying “why don’t you try it yourself for 90 days”. They started-out saying that they have in-house test results and are working with another company to do independent testing. I asked for the in-house results, but only got back to the “why don’t you try it for 90 days…” stage. Maybe a small breakthrough here (after about a half dozen email exchanges):
From John Oberhansly:

Hey Bob, here is the best that I can do. Our 3rd party independent testing is being done by the Battelle Group out of Columbus Ohio.
http://www.battelle.org/index.aspx
The preliminary results are looking very good and the Battelle Group is seeing the results we expected.
We cannot release any more information at this time. We hope to have the final results by the end of summer. Please let me know if I can be of further service.

Now, I’ll bet anyone here a six-pack that in September the answer I’ll get will be:
“…thanks for the interest, Bob. Why don’t you try the system for 90 days…”

On another note, I have been following Allison Moore Smith’s blog http://pix2brix.com/best-home-water-conditioner/ and noticed that her experience went from super-hopeful to “it’s not working”. Like every other one of these reports I’ve read, the testing and reporting just trailed-off and ended without closure. I posted on that blog noting that fact and asking if the Nuvo people had put the clamps on her and prevented a final summary report. My post asking those questions did not make it onto the site.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I did get an MSDS out of them that looked fine. Basically the citrus they use is drinking water safe. I also found a posting on amazon that looked good -- worked good for about 6 week and then the cell needed replacement, they guy returned the unit since they wouldn't extend the 90 day return policy http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A1S4E6PFI612LX/ref=cm_pdp_rev_title_3?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview#RIFKHTT9OKEBP
and he has other reviews


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Wow this thread goes back to 2010 and it still appears that no one that actually owns the product has responded!

justalurker : I don't care what you say -- your bias is obvious (as well as that of some others). Moreover, your comments of "properly sized" installation shows your connection to that market or at least buy in to their marketing hype. Defend yourself if you must, but you can't say anything that will convince me otherwise!!! So don't bother if you really car about the information in this thread.

This tread has all ready had enough hyperbole and misinformation salted in with the GOOD facts that anyone really wanting the truth will find it difficult to find it! So --

Here's the FACTS from a person who bought the product based solely on the FACT that the chemistry is sound. I bought the product in December 2011, replacing a salt based system that had failed. I had our local plumber install it professionally. The device worked for about 2 months then I started to notice its effectiveness receeded. I bought one of their scrubber cartridges (at their recommedation) and it did START to remove some of the deposits that had started to reappear. But they said to only use it for 2 weeks; so I replaced the scrubber as directed. Again after about 6 to 8 weeks I began to notice it has started to fail to work again.

Now where I live we have VERY hard water, but this is far less than the 6 months they claim and that is my problem with them! At about $70 a hit it is more than I want to spend on recurring investment. But, it does work for awhile.

Other comments about the company. I promptly registered my product on arrival. They have somehow lost my registration. When I ask them to resend my password they say that I don't exists, but I continue to receive marketing emails from them. Go figure!

BTW-- Don't say that this thing WON"T remove scale or lime deposits -- some if fell on my garage floor (from the scrubber I replaced) and when it got wet it dissolved the cement!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"Now where I live we have VERY hard water"

What is VERY hard water to you in gpg hardness?

"I don't care what you say -- your bias is obvious..."

I admit bias in chemistry, physics, and proven performance in a lab and then in the field rather than bragging by a marketing department..

So markesims, let's summarize your findings...

"The device worked for about 2 months then I started to notice its effectiveness receded"

"Again after about 6 to 8 weeks I began to notice it has started to fail to work again"

"At about $70 a hit it is more than I want to spend on recurring investment. But, it does work for awhile"

Glowing endorsements... doesn't sound so, and these statements won't be found on their website or in their literature.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I knew you wouldn't be able to resist. Just made my point -- you don't care about this information on this thread!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

If your point is that what you bought didn't do what they said it would then you proved your point.

Lots of people (me included) and lots of businesses anxiously await alternative water treatment solutions that are either as effective and reliable as ion exchange at the same, or lower, cost to the consumer because viable alternatives are a good thing.

Whats' not good are alternatives that simply generate money for a greedy few and don't give the consumer what they are told they will get.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

"Just made my point -- you don't care about this information on this thread!"

I think what's not good is posters who apparently don't even know what a rhetorical "point" is.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Let me provide some background information first... I did some basic research in my attempts to improve the quality of the water at my home. Googled and visited more pages than I care to recount looking for alternatives to salt based systems. I asked some people I trust and hold advanced degrees in chemistry about chelation and received very positive responses. Based on this, I decided to try the NuvoH20 home system so the rest of this post is on my unscientific perceptions regarding this product.

1. Installation was incredibly easy since I already had the connections from an old salt based softener. Even if I had started without this, it still would have been rather easy.
2. Shortly after installation,we noticed a slight discoloration to the water when we filled the sink - which troubled us quite a bit. Seems this was the result of "stuff" in the pipes (per their tech support). They swore it would go away and about 10-12 days later it wasn't noticeable.
3. Since I have a fairly extensive home water filtration system and religiously change the carbon filters, I didn't notice any "taste" difference in the water. I also didn't notice any improvements in the quality of the clothes washed in the new system. But to be honest, most of our laundry goes to the dry cleaners and only towels, bedding and such get washed.
4. Tested the water with my pool chemistry kit and the water hardness was pretty much the same - maybe a slight improvement of 1-2g but no more. Our glass shower still spotted though definitely not as much as before and which never happened with our old salt system.
5. Cartridge needed replacement after only 3 months - definitely not what was advertised. $60 + S&H. So, at this rate, the cost makes salt look pretty appealing.
6. Orchids love the water, this just begs for a controlled experiment.
7. Cartridge replacement is problematic. Tighten the retaining ring too much and it leaks (you also have to replace the "o" ring, not tight enough and it leaks. Kick it and it breaks.

I'm way past the 90 days return period, don't have much positive to say about this system other than paying for it kept some people employed... and ok, so I'm weird but I like the slick feeling on my skin from the shower, not wiping down the damn glass and finally not having to deal with cheap plastic so this system is a goner. Back to research...


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

OK please dont blast me for this. I have NUvo H2O and I have been promoting the product on my site for the last 3 years.

I went through this thread and its %50 headache with all the arguing. I just moved to a new house and was just doing some new research before I bought another Nuvo system.

Anyways here is my site with installation pictures http://www.nuvoh2oreview.com/installation-pictures/

Here is my 2 cents.
That installation was done right, It comes with some compression type set up that I just would not trust. For my set up my cousin helped me, but to be honest after we changed the pressure regulator etc.. this would have prob been a 500-800$ job depending on the plumber.

I got in the very early days of the products and there was actually different settings on the cartridge. I to got the blue tint to my water and they said to set it lower. Now the cartridges have one setting and I have not had any issues.

Did it work? Yes it did work, but.... you need to really keep an eye on it and keep up with cartridge changes. There were so many times I went months withouth changing it and that is not good. There is a bypass on the filter, plus we added a try bypass in the plumbing as well. So if you water the lawn or wash the car then you can use the bypass.. well prob not for the car. Anyways the fact is that I never once used the bypass lol so being lazy again and watering the lawn I prob wasted a lot of the citracharge in the cartridge. Can you see where I am going with this?

In order for it to be effective you really need to keep a schedule and have a spare cartidge or two on hand for replcacement. They also have a scrubber cartridge which you are supposed to run first to clean out the pipes etc...

They also have a citraclear product that you toss in the dishwasher that works really well.

So like I said it does work, it might cost you more to install then they say and you need to really keep on top of it so you can keep the system going and not skip a month or two like I did.

Hope this helps. Glad to answer any other questions.
Oh and support was always helpful via email or the phone.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Nice Shill site, Chris. I particularly love giving the site a name with "review" in it to try to make it look like an actual review site rather than a sales tool.

You "have been promoting" it on your site for three years? Translation: You have been selling thee product for three years. Way to go! Since you're clearly too stupid to read this site's TOU, I'm sure you're a stellar business person. I can't wait to jump in line to purchase whatever you are selling. I'm certain no one else will see through your clever little ploy.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Here, allow me help you advertise:

nuvoh2oreview.com is a scam company, run by an unscrupulous business person who steals advertising space from other websites, so likely won't hesitate to steal from customers as well.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Jeez guys I told you it was a site to sell the product. I created it after I got the product since I am in the business of internet marketing. I only posted it here because it seems %50 of this post is about arguing and name calling as your 2 posts prove. I have the system, i use the system I was offering %100 true facts about it which seem to be non existent here.

Its not a ploy, all the pics and installation are all mine in my home in Denville New Jersey where we have super hard water. Go ahead look online you wont see any other reviews like that. So what if I want to make a few $$ off of it. lol Like I said I only signed up today and posted that here because there are real people looking for real information on this product and it seems there is just not that much info out there on it. Jeesh!!

Good day!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

You are free to make all the money you want from any product you wish to sell. You are not, however, free to advertise on this site without paying for the privilege. My indictment above was of you, not your product. You, an admitted thief, are unworthy of my business.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Alice I really want to sit here all day and chat with you cause it might be fun, but like I said who cares if I drop a link to a site with factual information. Isn't that what people are looking for? If I dropped you a link to home depot to find a specific part would you not appreciate it? The fact is I took my time to build a website and document my whole experience with NuvoH2O so others could benefit from it. I would gladly pay for advertising, but I really posted here to give people some REAL information about the product since there seems to be a lack there of. Anyways I appreciate your feedback etc.... and don't care if you buy the product I just know how frustrating it can be to look for an honest review of something and just find garbage.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

@catech...

Your personal experience might have been interesting had you not queered it with the commercial reference thereby compromising every other opinion you expressed. As-posted, I don't know who you are or what you're up to.

Personally, I have no idea if your device is viable or not. All I know is your marketing skills are so incredibly deficient and, seemingly, self-serving it's difficult to accept much of anything you might say.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I just want to say that this thread was a little more acrimonious than needed. This goes to both sides or points of this discussion.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I'm a new member who just joined to say thank you after reading this enlightening discussion on the NUVOH2O, which I recently saw an infomercial on.

I've had a salt system for 18+ years. Over time the water's hardness has increased to the point I have 500gals after regeneration, using about 40lbs of salt a week and I know for a fact my system isn't discharging "up to" 2,000gals during regeneration (just love that widely used advertising claim, "up to"). I had the media/bed changer after 15 years. I don't discharge to the septic as I have nothing against the bacteria trying to do it's job and have sandy soil beneath to handle any enviromental concerns.

Gleaning through some of the emotional banter, and semantics, that is prelavent on many sites, I've decided to forego a changeover. I see an even higher cost with this sytem as I also have high Iron content (IIRC, 8ppb) and the current softener handles that quite well, unless someone uses water during regeneration. Lurker and BobWVA were very helpful, as were others in making my decision. I'll wait for a future, better 'mousetrap' backed by independent data before thinking of switching. Salt is readily available, I live over the largest salt deposit in NA, maybe the world, lol. Thanks Again, great read.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I plan to purchase a Nuvo H2O water softener for several reasons. I am on a low sodium diet for medical reasons and cannot have more sodium ions added to my diet via my drinking water. A traditional water softener that uses ion exchange does add sodium ions to your water as the sodium ions go into the water so that the calcium ions will come out of your water and therefore be unable to produce lime or CaCO3 (calcium carbonate) buildup. To avoid adding sodium ions, I am aware that you may use potassium chloride which adds potassium ions to the softened water to remove the calcium. It is more expensive that sodium chloride.

Since my house has never had a water softener, I will save money with the Nuvo H20 as I will not have to plumb a discharge line into my attic, through my closet and then down into the washing machine discharge. Nor will I have to have two new outdoor lines and faucets dug and plumbed so that I can have unsoftened water for my lawn and plants. The sodium ions in the softened water will kill plants particularly here in San Antonio, TX where we have scorching temperatures, low rainfall and restrictions for watering to once a week. I hope to reduce the installation bill for the loop from $2-3000 to $500 using the Nuvo. I hope the water line is right outside the garage like I think it is.

In addition, I also am very happy that the Nuvo H20 system does not release sodium chloride discharge into our city's sewage system, does use less water as there is not a recharge process in the Nuvo H20 system and does not use electricity. The filters will be much easier to change than adding bags of salt pellets. I strongly support any changes in existing systems that will have a positive effect on the environment which I feel Nuvo H2O does.

As an OLD high school chemistry teacher, I do see some incorrect science information mainly from those with the most emotional responses, passionately resisting any change. Why does a discussion about water softeners result in name calling and put downs? Have some respect for others and let them have an opinion even if it is different than you own. If you are unwilling to embrace change, do not put down those that are. The chelating information about the citric acid is correct. The calcium ions are not allowed to bind and precipitate out as CaCO3 due to the chelating process. I keep my calcium ions in my water and not add sodium ions.

So I will try a Nuvo and let you know in a few weeks how it goes.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

science_mom, If you are that concerned with sodium ions, then I am sure you must also be concerned with scores and scores of other contaminants in much larger quantities and size than sodium ions, right? Simple solution, get an RO that removes those ions as well as perhaps hundreds of other bugs in your water with an RO.

I mean why would one being so concerned with one's water ignore such a well-founded, reasonably priced, and remarkably usable technology?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

science_mom, If you are that concerned with sodium ions, then I am sure you must also be concerned with scores and scores of other contaminants in much larger quantities and size than sodium ions, right? Simple solution, get an RO that removes those ions as well as perhaps hundreds of other bugs in your water with an RO.

I mean why would one being so concerned with one's water ignore such a well-founded, reasonably priced, and remarkably usable technology?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

@science mom,

I'm on a low sodium diet also, have a water softener treating 35 gpg hard water, and I'm still alive after 16 years on a softener and my blood pressure is right on the money.

My wife waters her house plants with softened water and they thrive.

Concerned about sodium ions added to your softener water by an ion exchange softener cause you're on a low sodium diet and won't spend the money for KCl (which would mitigate your concerns)?

Well...

The formula for added sodium is 7.85 mg/l (about a quart) of softened water per grain per gallon of compensated hardness.

EXAMPLE 20 gpg * 7.85 = 157 mg of sodium added per liter of softened water, not salt.

How does this sodium content of softened water compare to sodium found in common foods?

The table demonstrates the usual range of sodium in common foods.

Food Amount Mg of Sodium

Ketchup 1 tablespoon 204
Milk 2 Cups 226
Frozen Peas 1/2 Cup 295
Bread 2 Slices 322
Corn Flakes 1 oz. 260
Parmesan Cheese 1 oz. 528
Tomato Juice 4 oz. 504
Tomato Soup 1 Cup 932
Chili 1 Cup 1194
Beef Broth 1 Cup 1152

Regardless of whether the NUVOH2O works or not, or you decide on an ion exchange softener, you'd better also stop eating all the named foods above and pretty much any processed food cause they are laden with salt and you said you don't want any sodium added to your diet.

Sodium... it's not just in our drinking water.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

And agree with Andy... on RO.

Ion exchange softener for hardness and an under sink RO in the kitchen for drinking, cooking, and ice making.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I've read this entire thread and even tho I think the bickering is completely unjustified (just my opinion!) I believe there is more actual knowledge in this forum than anywhere else I've looked. So here is my question...I don't necessarily care about "soft" water or if it will make my skin feel "slimy" or whatever BUT, we have horrible problems with lime scale build up on our pipes, faucets, and appliances. We even have little rocks that come out of our tub faucet! What is the best system for reducing future and existing lime scale build up? Again, I'm not concerned about soft or conditioned or ion exchange or salt or how they work. I just want to know which one DOES WORK on our particular problem. Thanks for your suggestions!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Poulson,

First thing... start a new thread for your question so it gets the attention you desire rather than resurrecting an old thread.

Second... are the deposits lime or calcium?

Third... in order to speak intelligently regarding treating your water we will need the results of a comprehensive water test by an independent lab. Then we'll know what in the water needs to be treated and can then make recommendations.

Fourth... are you on a well or water system? How many people in the home? How many bathrooms? Any water hogging appliances like a hot tub or Jacuzzi?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Thanks justalurker for your reply! Will do as you recommend...but first can you tell me how to go about getting a water test? Thanks so much!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Start a new thread for your question so it gets the attention you desire.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I am wondering if we could all agree to stop responding to any of these threads about these devices. Anyone who believes in these things falls into one of these categories.
1. Homeowner who probably didn't have very hard water to begin with.
2. Ignorant homeowner.
3. Snake oil salesman who enjoys all the free publicity he can get good or bad.

We should all just stop feeding these trolls.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

...Aaaaannd Science Mom joins the legions of others who intend to buy the product, promise an unbiased real-world view, and then fall off the face of the earth. It's a shame, really, because I was honestly looking forward to hearing about her experience.

Great point made about using potassium instead of sodium. Probably cheaper than buying a new citracel filter every month. But anyone know what's up with the price of potassium salt these days? Seems like it's more than doubled in cost.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

The infomercial brought me to research. It has been several years since I finished my bio/chem degree and MS in chemistry. "If you don't use it, you lose it" is a reality. (I never found a position suitable to my financial and transportation needs)

This thread has been very entertaining. Everything after this is going to support the use of salts for reduction of CaCO3 in water supplies. It is also going to support that in a proper setup there should be low amounts of sodium left in the drinking water, which are bad for severely restricted sodium diets. You will either have levels of higher CaCO3 or sodium. KCl won't have this problem.

I looked over some past research. None of my targeted research was for anything other than CaCO3 and the efficiency of a few different filters. The rest is speculation.

Using a calgamite indicator and EDTA on CaCO3 deposits in water sources. We looked at 10 samples of the areas city water supply, where the mean was 920ppm or 53.68gpg, which is rather hard. This is going to drag on for a while, even though I am paraphrasing my notes, and might get boring, but it will eventually get to an endpoint. <-pun for later.

In our first test we ran the water samples through a brand carbon base filter which reduced the CaCO3 by an average of 45.3%, which is much less than the 86% claimed by the manufacturer. Second test used a low flow paper filter, average of 39.7% reduction. Third & forth test used both. carbon -> paper then paper -> carbon for a total reduction of an average of 59.7% and 67% respectively.

Using several other instruments we looked at everything else in the water too. This was to make sure we did not have high concentrations of other dissolved molecules that might affect negatively our work. Here is the next part that isn't so boring...

Next we used all, now 40 (separated into 4 samples of each and diluted to different concentrations...160 samples in all to work with) samples in back titrations, HCl and NaOH with phenolphthalein were used, to find out exactly how much NaCl was produced.

The speculation part.
After all of this we know very approximately how much NaCl is needed to reduce the CaCO3 to negligible amounts in each of my samples, adjusted per dilution. The charge on the sodium is not great enough to do this in a perfect 2:1 (2NaCl is needed per 1CaCO3) so there will be sodium left over.

So, properly setup, a salt softener is a very efficient way to reduce CaCO3 in water. Physical filters help and so do chemical filters. Without testing the NuvoH2O myself I feel that I can safely assume that, since the filter is not permanent, its efficacy will depreciate whereas a well maintained salt softener will not.

Yes there will always be sodium/potassium in the water past a softener. Yes if you are concerned about sodium in your drinking water you should get a point-of-use RO type filter, use KCl, or you can bypass your softener before you get to your drinking water. Yes the sodium can be bad for plants, but you should bypass your softener to outside faucets anyway.

Feel free to berate me as you will. I really don't care. It is pretty early/late and I need to get back to the infomercials.

If you want my full labwork and tables/graphs I can provide them.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

After seeing the ad on tv for nuvoh20, started research and found this site - read all the posts and have questions, but first, please know:
1) I have a well which produces horrible hard, visible grains of something which is filtered out by a well filter which has to be changed several times a year. The water produced has passed, repeatedly, the Dept of Health's water testing.
2) I have a septic tank which has to be pumped out once a year.
3) I have a Culligan Model 474 which is two years old - it replaced one that was 8 years old.
4) The Culligan has to be reprogrammed every time the electricity "blinks" - there is no battery back up for the programming even though this thing cost over 1200 dollars and the electricity "blinks" quite often out here. Reprogramming requires standing in a cold pump house, holding a flash light, the instructions and repeatedly pushing one button to get to the right place, then the second button to "select" then back to the first - several times until the thing is programmed. If, for some reason,I am unable to do this, I must pay an 85 dollar service call for someone to come out and I must wait all day for him to show up.
5) I am old and frail and salt comes in only 40 pound bags. I can still lift them, with large effort but foresee the day when I won't be able to. Takes, on average - two of these bags a month - which now cost 6.98/bag at Walmart.
6) I have a new, high end Kitchenaide diswasher with a stainless steel interior - within two weeks the "stainless" was covered with an ugly, streaky film that no amount of scrubbing would remove.
7) I read that running the dishwasher, empty, after putting a package of lemon koolaide in the soap dispenser would solve my problem.
IT DID. The stainless interior looks nice again but, of course, will have to do it every couple of weeks.
QUESTIONs:
1) if the Nuvoh20 system is bad science and does not work - why did the package of Kooaide work to remove the film in the dishwasher?
2) is there any other option for conditioning water (won't say "softening") in such a way that I don't get this white, filmy, yucky buildup on every surface touched by water in my house that will not require me to have to live with Culligan monster and heavy bags of salt?


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

It's not that citric acid won't remove hardness and act as a chelant. The problems are:

1. This particular unit provides absolutely zero control over how much citric acid enters your water.
2. Additionally, the technology works as intended over only a quite narrow range of water conditions and the unit has no way to respond to different waters in a different way.
3. Cost is very high compared to softening.
4. The company does not appear to understand what softening actually is. Neither do they appear to understand the proper application and limitations of their own technology - always a red flag.

Do any of your local water treatment companies offer either a salt delivery service (including adding it to your brine tank), or a softener swap-out service? Either of these would cost money, but you would not be the one lugging bags of salt.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

This ripoff report seems to have some good information. There are some negative reports (the first one of course), but you can see some official company responses:

Here is a link that might be useful: rip report link


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

Beware Nuvo! I recently bought a used filter which needed a part. I contacted Nuvo, which refused to sell the part. They said they don't sell parts to third party purchasers, because the item could be stolen, or not completely paid for, or whatever. So, Nuvo filters have zero resale value. What a company!


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I cant imagine why anybody would want to buy a used Nuvo filter since they last only 4 to 6 months. I also found mixed reviews about Nuvo, look here http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130408182758AApHy5W

Anyway, we found that the electronic no salt technology works better than Nuvo and there’s no filters to replace every 4 to 6 months like with Nuvo. After looking at several brands I had to decide between Easywater and Scalewatcher, both seemed reputable and trustworthy companies. Finally we bought the Scalewatcher 3 star from Aqua Genesis because it had lower price ($499) and longer warranties. It's been over a year now and we have no complaints about our ScaleWatcher: the scale in my showerhead went away and never came back, our water heater heats up faster, we had to lower the temp setting or we get burned, and we love the way our hair and skin feels after the shower. This is where I bought mine aquagenesisusa.com and i can honestly recommend them.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I thought I might be able to get some good information from this discussion, but the arrogant BS just gave me a headache.


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RE: NUVOH2O water conditioning system

I thought I might be able to get some good information from this discussion, but the arrogant BS just gave me a headache.


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