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viktor_k

Question about water softener valve heads

Viktor_K
10 years ago

Short version:

Can I install a fleck 6500sxt valve on a tank that was sold with a whirlpool 40k cabinet softener?

Long Version:
Hello, I've been doing some reading and learning about all the different water softeners out there and have a question.

My water comes from a well, i don't have a detailed report of the quality of the water but I do know it has good amount of iron in it. Water tastes good, there's no high levels of arsenic or bacteria in it (had that tested).

Currently I have one of them whirlpool water softener cabinets and when we moved into this place I noticed that it wasn't doing very good, sometimes the water would stink.

So I opened it up and noticed that a mice has been living and doing all of its business under the plastic by the valve body.

Disgusted as I was, I emptied it all out, including the resin and then realized what I had done... I went to a local water filter place and got 1 cubit ft of resin (different color though, gold, instead of black that was in there), filled it up and assembled it.

It seemed to work, but now we get salty water every time it regens for about 10 minutes. Water quality kind of sucks sometimes too.

I've checked the drain, it seems to gush out when regenerating, i've messed with settings (although I'm clueless with some of those things). Still salty water.

So i'm thinking of replacing the whole thing. Then I thought, why not just replace the valve? Like with a fleck 6500sxt? its only about 300$, i just spend 150$ on new resin, the tank is clean, the controller is likely the issue with the whirlpool.

Anyway, is that possible? or are tanks all different sizes?

Is it worth it to send someone out to look at whirlpool?

Comments (8)

  • justalurker
    10 years ago

    Short answer... NO. The Whirlpool tank doesn't use the industry standard thread arrangement.

    Long answer... You asked the wrong softener to do a difficult job and got exactly what happens when one uses the wrong tool for the job. You wasted your time and your money on resin so chalk that up to education and call it tuition.

    IIRC, the Whirlpool is a packed bed softener and more than likely used fine mesh resin so you probably bought the wrong resin. The control valve design is problematic and a real PITA to work on. The materials used are not the highest quality and these softeners are short lived on municipal water and even shorter lived on really hard and/or well water and iron makes things VERY hard on a softener. You obviously haven't been doing any resin maintenance.

    For not much over the cost of an a la carte 5600SXT (that you can't put on your softener anyway) you can buy a correctly sized industry standard softener DEPENDING on your EXACT water conditions, water usage, and service flow rate (SFR).

    If you want to cure the disease your next step is a comprehensive water test from a certified lab.

    For starters you need to know...
    hardness
    pH
    iron (ferrous and ferric)
    manganese
    TDS
    arsenic
    bacteria
    nitrates
    sodium
    chorine

    Then we need to know...
    # of people in the home
    # of bathrooms
    Any high water use appliances like a monster shower or Jacuzzi
    Service flow rate (SFR) of your water supply

    Living on a well is more complicated and more dangerous than living on a municipal water system cause you want to make the water nice but you have to make it SAFE too.

    Living on a well you should be testing annually for nitrates and bacteria.

  • Viktor_K
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thanks for your suggestion. I don't mind buying a whole new unit with a 5600SXT head on it already, i just didn't want to be wasteful so thought I'd ask. I'm a little glad the answer is No :)

    As far as testing water though, I'm curious how some of those measurements effect the choice of a water softener?

    We just moved in a couple of months ago, and the water straight from the well is very nice (for drinking) but noticeable iron content. It does stain appliances and sinks. So the only thing I want to do to the water is remove some of the iron.

    We tested for arsenic and bacteria, all came back very good. I will keep in mind that we should test annually.

    I was leaning towards getting a 1.5ft3 tank with 5600sxt valve unit on it, seems like a very robust unit and is not overly pricey. Also seems to be easy to maintain/replace parts on it.

    We have 2 adults and 4 kids in the house, we don't use a ton of water, generally don't take big baths (showers or light baths) and we do have a jacuzzi but haven't filled it up yet. Oh and hot tub is also there but we likely won't use that much either.

    I was thinking 1.5 to be safe, since the kids are growing and will use more water with time.

    Also, couldn't i replace the tank and resin if I needed to go to 2ft3? and keep using the same valve maybe with different settings?

    Thanks.

  • justalurker
    10 years ago

    Treating hardness is one thing and done with a softener based on hardness, manganese test results.

    You can treat one type of iron with a softener and only up to a point. Then you need an iron filter. The other type of iron requires different treatment hardware and procedures. Treating either type of iron requires exact data from test results for amount and type.

    pH is important and must be dealt with if out of the acceptable range or costly plumbing repairs will surely follow.

    An important factor in deciding what treatment equipment is necessary is what the SFR is cause certain hardware and certain media requires minimum flow rates for backwashing.

    You need to test annually for NITRATES and BACTERIA.

    So far you haven't posted one single fact regarding your water conditions. Without the results of a water test from a certified lab we can not have an intelligent discussion regarding water treatment so, since you seem to have all the answers the only thing I can contribute to this thread is... good luck.

    This post was edited by justalurker on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 21:01

  • Viktor_K
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Well, no I don't have all the answers, that's why there are question marks in my post. I ask why all those measurements matter because I don't see any custom solution from most water treatment places. Generally its just water softeners with different resins for different applications (high iron vs chlorine) and then there are additional particle filters and RO systems.

    I'm not interested in getting an RO system for my house and I don't live next to or lower than farm fields where chemicals can seep into water table.

    I just had a simple question about water softeners.

  • justalurker
    10 years ago

    People in the business of high volume and low margins rarely offer custom solutions. Sales numbers are all they care about and that's why so many people come to these forums seeking help to correctly size a softener and set it up for efficient operation and get information on treating other water problems. Because that's not what they got from their softener sellers although they expected it.

    There is a vast difference between looking at the results of a water test and knowing what is in the water and remarking that "I don't live next to or lower than farm fields where chemicals can seep into water table". If that water is going in my body or my family's body then I have to know what is in the water and what might cause (economic and health) problems and then I choose what or whether to do something about it. If you don't care then that's your choice but don't expect me to be an accessory before the fact.

    Water treatment is chemistry, physics, and mechanics. Two of those disciplines don't lend themselves to assumptions or averaging or generalizing. There's no crying in baseball and there's no guessing in mathematics.

    When you go to the doctor complaining about the pain in your left arm and he/she says... you know you have high blood pressure... been taking your meds... did you get the lab work and the EKG I ordered? Do you reply... I'm curious how those tests effect your diagnosis and my treatment?

    You don't know what you don't know and you're read enough to be dangerous and that's OK cause lots of people come to forums looking for answers and most accept the expert help they get especially at the price they pay but some few challenge those far more knowledgeable than themselves and who provide their knowledge and experience for free and sometimes that makes us think that we're wasting out time and we don't like that feeling.

    If you're looking for the WHY then I'm not your guy cause you wouldn't believe me anyway and I won't waste time trying to educate you. Anymore... I only do the HOW and if that isn't a good enough deal for FREE then wait for someone else to reply to your post or hit the online softener huckster web sites, read some more, and take your chances.

    I'll leave you with this (rhetorical) question... with your unwillingness and reluctance to provide ANY substantive details regarding your water conditions other than "My water comes from a well, I don't have a detailed report of the quality of the water but I do know it has good amount of iron in it. Water tastes good, there's no high levels of arsenic or bacteria in it (had that tested)". How would anyone be able to help you?

    This post was edited by justalurker on Thu, Sep 5, 13 at 22:26

  • Viktor_K
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    I certainly appreciate your expertise, I just didn't expect someone to spend so much energy trying to explain something that seems simple on the outside to most folks.

    You are right that my family drinks this water, that's why I did have it tested for things that could cause harm to us. Test came back with good results. As far as every other mineral level, I don't believe its critical to health and if I like the way the water tastes then we will be fine.

    I do not go to the kitchen of every restaurant to see if every cook washed their hands and neither do you. If every neighbor around me has a softener and this house had a softener for last 20 years without staining 20 year old appliances then I trust the new softener should do the same thing.

    sure I can turn this into a science project but it isn't that critical, I can drink the well water directly all day long and feel great, its not about health but simply keeping appliances happy.

    Anyway, I'm not arguing that you know what you are talking about, you seem offended in some way that I was trying to minimize your advice, I'm not, technically and scientifically you are right, its just sometimes we tend to do what has worked before unless it all of a sudden stops doing what we are expecting it to do.

  • justalurker
    10 years ago

    Perhaps you'd be more comfortable continuing along the line you've been traveling... a new Whirlpool or maybe a Sears or a GE or a Morton cause they're all the same.

    You might be happier just calling Whirlpool and having their tech come out and repair your softener.

    Actually, I pay great attention to sanitary practices in restaurants and have walked out from quite a few.

    We have different points of view and that's the way it is so I leave you to do what you like.

    This post was edited by justalurker on Fri, Sep 6, 13 at 2:08

  • caddymech
    9 years ago

    Hey Viktor_K, I found something here that is related...but may be too late for you..
    http://www.softenerparts.com/Sears_GE_North_Star_Tank_Adapter_p/02ecoadapt.htm