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mattaw

Please criticise my softener plan...

mattaw
11 years ago

I know you get so many of these posted here, and thankyou all for spending so much time with everyone.

I have tried to read as much as I can on Terrylove and Gardenweb from such gurus as aliceinwonderland, justalurker, gary and if I have forgotten anyone I am sorry.

So we have just bought into a nice new house with lots of expansion room and we are not planning on moving for a decade or three.

House:

2 baths (with showers) + 1 bath with shower

No Jacuzzis/etc.

SFR measured as well as I can is about 9-11 but I only have mixer taps everywhere which is a pain. I suspect I have really good water pressure as we have a 3/4" pipe as main feed with 1/2" to most fittings.

City water, summary sheet here:

http://www.amwater.com/files/IN_5279020_TWQ.pdf

Details here:

http://www.amwater.com/files/IN_5279020_CCR.pdf

Main facts:

pH 7.5

Total Hardness 19-24 gpg

Fl 0.8mg/L

Sodium 12-26 mg/L

Iron 0.01mg/L

Manganese 0.01mg/L

Awaiting test results for actual numbers.

We have a very variable household which will expand.

2 adults plus two children

Up to another two adults staying plus their children.

To cope with the SFR we should have at least 1.5 cu ft of resin. To cope with hardness we have a demand of:

(Just us plus kids)

4000gal/mo / 30days * 24grains/gal * 7 day regen = 23k

leads to (Loaded house, parents etc)

6-8 people

7 people * 50gals/person * 24 grains/gal * 7 day regen = 60k

>>15lbs salt per cu ft, problem!

But (think it was justalurker's suggestion) with 2x 1.5 cu ft in a twin tank we could have a variable regen without worry giving a normal cycle for just us of 7 days and a short cycle of 3-5 days when the house is loaded.

Let me know what you all think.

I was planning on a Fleck 9100SXT based system, 3cu ft resin, gravel bed under resin. Is a name brand resin worth it?

Matthew

P.S. Culligan offered $1600 for a single system which would be oversize for us normally and undersized for full load or $2300 for a small twin tank. I recon can get the softener above shipped for $1000 or so.

PPS Hopefully you will be able to help me tune the heck out of the system!

Comments (12)

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    If you've posted before please include a link and your posting name back then so we can review your previous posts.

    I searched for mattaw and nothing came up.

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Sorry to give that impression but I have never posted before. The previous post I referred to was an idea you (I think?) had in a previous post to buy a twin for this kind of situation of wildly varying load.

    M

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    Correctly sizing a softener is based on the specific water use, specific water conditions, and specific plumbing in a specific environment not generalities or similar situations. It is chemistry, arithmetic, physics, with a little mechanics and none lend themselves to vagueness.

    Post your detailed water conditions. Best if that is results from a water test by a certified lab. Water authority info doesn't reflect the water conditions at your water meter and that's the water that you want to treat, right?

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Just to check on city water would you consider this lab test set suitable? Or is it overkill?

    Nitrate, Turbidity, Chloride, pH, Hardness, Fluoride, As, Cr, Cu, Fe, Mg, Na, Pb (86)-Volatile Organic Compounds including TTHM's, BTEX, MTBE and Atrazine.
    http://www.envirolabsinc.com/et_partial_lab_test.php#

    M

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    You should be able to find a local lab. Check with city ot county environmental health departments.

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    They are one of my local labs - I was just checking that the list of tests isn't too long or missing anything you will want to see..

    M

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    They are one of my local labs - I was just checking that the list of tests isn't too long or missing anything you will want to see..

    M

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    11 years ago

    Add Mn (manganese) as it is similar to, and causes the same types of problems as, iron.

    Add TDS.

    There are errors in your calculations above. You have neglected to account for the iron and manganese, and have not accounted for the necessary 15 - 20% reserve to ensure you always have soft water. A 1.5 cuft softener would regen every 5 days with four people using 60 gallons per day, 6 days using 50 gallons per day. I am more comfortable using 60 than 50 for sizing purposes since kids become teens who play sports and take more/longer showers. For 8 people, it is not physically possible for you to get 7 days between regens on a 1.5 cuft softener no matter how much salt you use.

    Once you come back with a test of your water, we can get more specific for you.

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Still waiting on the results,

    [All my calculations and comments should be taken with a rather large pinch of salt :) ]

    Aliceinwonderland, I was proposing a twin 1.5cuft (3cuft total, twin to try to address the varying load) which (I think) shouldn't require much if any reserve (if set right of course).

    The calc on 8 people was just to demonstrate my grasp of the problem facing any "single" softener but with a twin it might be possible for it to have a short regen cycle (3-4 days) with moderate salt when our guests are staying for a month.

    The twin was advice I read in one of the hundred or so posts on this subject I was absorbing from gurus such as yourself (Google site:gardenweb.com aliceinwonderland_id justalurker etc. )

    Looking forward to the discussion soon when I can get you the test results.

    M

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    My suggestion just died!

    Just remeasured SFR twice very carefully.

    Ran the two upstairs bath mixers (they have the biggest supply pipes), one turned to full hot and the other full cold into buckets.

    Measured how much I got in a minute (both buckets).

    24.4 GPM.

    Really. Through 3/4" copper pipe too.

    That looks to be about 4cu ft resin which is one titanic softner... forget a twin!

    How the heck to have it work at normal low flow without channeling though? In fact should I just have a "one bath" rule at this point?

    M

  • alan_s_thefirst
    11 years ago

    I know little about softeners but will have to learn as I'm living with well water, but if you were to reduce your water pressure/flow, you might be able to reduce your softener size, right?

    Don't forget a pre-filter, and a RO or similar for drinking water which I assume will remove the sodium.

  • mattaw
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    Just ignore me - the bucket was calibrated in quarts, not gallons.

    My actual SFR is 5GPM which is just awful. A little investigation shows that the person who built the house used globe valves for the main water entry to the property and the hot water shutoff. I am probably losing about half my flow or more to them.

    I am having them replaced with ball valves on Thursday so I shall remeasure then. Should also have the lab results back by then.

    M

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