Another class action lawsuit against the latest and greatest plastic fantastic plumbing revolutionary product just like every plastic plumbing innovation for the last 50 years and then a decade later a lawsuit follows?

I've heard of PEX damage is SoCal. Seems rats and mice love chewing on PEX.

You need to press them on this. The damage "SUGGESTS" is a far stretch from "WAS" caused by a bug. And the good news is that most home insurance explicitly states they do not cover damage caused by rodents,insects and wildlife. Better read your policy before filing a claim or alowing any more unsintific observations to become intrenched. This isn't somthing that can be handled on the net.

Sorry klem1, didn't intend to offend you with my unscientific attempt at humor. I did not think you would become entrenched.

If it really bothers you I'll delete it.

I found some interesting info (see link).

Uponor actually funded a 2005 study that shows this insect can (and does) bore through PEX walls.

I'm just wondering how pervasive this problem is. If it's common, folks need to know about it. If it's rare, it's just our sorry luck.

Thanks for your feedback!

Here is a link that might be useful: Conifer Seed Bug

Calm down lurker. Nothing I said relates to or responds to what you posted. I simply advised the op to have the manufacture "prove" what they are saying instead of guessing and to check his policy before fileing an insurance claim.

my house was built in 2007 also and i had my first leak this fall.
After sending the pipe into be tested they sent me back the same results. I live around Portland Oregon. Are you in the same area? Have you had any other leaks? What pest control company did you use?. Thanks Bob

Bob,
Are you still out there? I missed your post...

Yes, I live in the Gorge (Mosier). We haven't noticed any more leaks. Of course, that doesn't mean they're not happening. We're having a plumber in soon to check another problem and will have him take a look.

We did not hire a pest control company as we found no insects (not even one) inside the ruined wall and ceiling. We have the occasional spider, moth, or beetle but certainly no infestation. I have seen the pine bug (rarely) outdoors, but never in the house.

As far as I know there is no deterrent or approved pesticide for the pine bug. The key is simply to keep it out of your home.

I think Wirsbo is dishing out a bunch of BS. They are betting (correctly) that I as an individual will not sue. Meanwhile I am making sure our local and state building inspectors become aware of this problem. I am also communicating with my insurer (State Farm).

Do have more details on your situation? It's interesting that your house was built the same year as ours.

Would love to hear more!

It's a fact they can pierce PEX. Why would this product be sold in an area that has these bugs?

Except for PVC drain pipe, IMO all the plastic water pipe is junk. However it's now new and improved........ BS.

Disclosure of this vulnerability is not in their specification sheet. Hiding this vulnerability then denying claims is definitely not a good idea on their part, it just invites another class action lawsuit when all they had to do was put it in their specs.
http://www.uponor-qe.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Specification-PEX.pdf

Btw, save the pdf on your computer incase they try to change it.

That's good information...thank you!

The pipe manufacturer could make a good case that this is not a fault in their product but, rather, a fault in application, responsibility for which lies with the builder.

True, but its information they know about and they are keeping it hidden so their sales are not affected. They disclose info about UV radiation affecting the PEX so people know not to install it in sunlight. People don't know about this bug being able to damage their water lines, and the bug is more prevalent in certain areas so homeowners and contractors in those areas may lean towards a different product. I doubt a lot of contractors know about this problem.

Again, susceptibility to UV degradation in inherent to the product because it is plastic - bugs are not inherent to the product unless something about the product actually attracts the bugs. Conifer bugs are a local problem and any court case would have to prove that 1) the manufacturers do, in fact, know that the bugs can and have a propensity to damage the pipe, 2) the manufacture is liable for pest problems.

Typically, homeowners bear responsibility for damages due to pest infestations, whether that is a colony of mice chewing up walls, furniture and pipes, or western confer seed bugs making holes in pex.

Can bugs pierce CPVC or copper? Do mice enjoy munching on CPVC and copper? Problem may be inherent to the product. Yes I know rodents can chew through most things but do they prefer to gnaw on PEX 'more'? Just throwing some questions out there. I do agree proving that they are liable will be mostly impossible, but they should be made to list the potential vulnerabilities so homeowners and contractors know.

Oh C%ap! Thank you for reviving this thread. I was going to re-plumb my house this year or next with pex and just saw a picture of the Western Conifer Seed Bug. I first noticed them in the house two years ago during the winter. This winter is the worst. I'm up in Bremerton, west of Seattle.

I had no idea this could happen.

DMH

I own a summer home up at Lake Cushman in Hoodsport Washington. It was built in 2008.Last month I discovered a pinhole leak in the ceiling above our woodstove. I had the plumber fix the leak (He's been a plumber in the area foe over 25 years) The plumber had never seen PEX leak like this and thought it was a manufacturing defect. The Plumber sent the pipe to Uponer to be analyzed. Uponer said the package was open on the end and no piece of pipe was to be found. I went up to our summer home 2 weeks later and turned on the water only to find another leak in the same general location. The plumber came out again and fixed the pinhole leak. He then sent the new section of pipe to Uponer. I just received a letter from Uponer stating the examination revealed evidence suggesting the pipe was pierced from the exterior surface inward, in a manner consistent with that caused by the Western Conifer Seed Bug.And that it was very rare. It would have been nice to know the pipe was vunerable to insects before I decided to use PEX in the home. It will be interesting to see if any local exterminators have ever seen this before.

I wonder if wrapping the pex inside the walls with foam insulation would prevent leaks in the walls and ceilings at least.

Our house had quite a few of those bugs in it last winter. Have lived here 17 years and recall seeing them only in the last few years. I have one more winter to go before re-plumbing the house. I'll pay extra attention next fall to see if I can figure out how they are getting in.

It's been interesting to watch this discussion unfold. I agree that a class action suit would likely fail, but we're NOT seeing indisputable proof that these holes are indeed caused by insects.

I have written to the Oregon State Building Codes Division about this problem. Perhaps if they receive enough of these complaints, contractors will be prohibited from using PEX.

Please write to your state and local building code officials!

Its very few causes with 100% evidence when bug eat PEX. As I said you have more chances to freeze and burst your pex system then meet with "bug" problems.

Even if it happen you may fix this problem with couple clamp and coupling. And don't forget call to exterminators.

Repipingpro, you will also need carpenters, drywall people, painters, and possibly hardwood floor installers ... And lots of money. Not one single insect was found where an entire ceiling and two walls were torn out. That's why we are suspicious of the insect diagnosis. We believe it's more likely the product was defective. And given this supposed vulnerability to insect damage, I wouldn't recommend installing this product in areas where the insect is present, which is spreading throughout the USA.

Glad to see I am not alone with this issue. I am a builder in Roseburg, Oregon, and recently have had the exact same issues as some of you. I first noticed a leak in the entry closet a few months ago while I was wrapping up a new spec home. The house had already been painted, including trim, and wood floors down. I noticed mold and swelling around the drywall of the finished trim and above the door. Our plumbers found 3 microscopic leaks, all within a foot of each other, that sprayed water so lightly they were likely leaking for months before damage was visible. After sending the bad pipe to Uponor we received the same news that the pipe was exposed to Western Conifer Seed Bug and damages would not be covered.

Then, just 2 weeks ago, i noticed some swelling in the baseboard and trim around the bottom of the same door in the exact same area!! The plumbers came out to find 2 more of the same tiny holes about 2 feet down the line. I don't know if they didn't see the last 2 holes on the first repair or what but I had them remove/replace all of the line they could reach. Also, it was only the 1/2 inch line that was damaged in my case, even tho there was a 1'' line in the same area as well. This time I kept the damaged pipe so I can have some private tests conducted.

I called our Building Official to bring up these issues and he told me to talk to the State Building Codes Division, which I saw one of you also suggested. I plan to do so too. I also had a local exterminator, who has been in business for 28 years in this area, take a look at the wall section where the damage occurred before I covered it up. He is going to write a sort of testimonial saying there were no signs of bugs in the wall of the house. I don't know how much this will help me in my battle against Uponor, but it can't hurt and it may be something for others to consider. He also suggested I contact the entomology program at Washington State University to see if they would be interested in further researching this issue, which I plan to do as soon as I finish here.

We should all be spreading the word about this issue and exploring more ideas for how to make real changes.

So what type of pipe is the best to have? Copper?

I had this problem in my mother In Laws house the sheet rock in her dinning room ceiling was getting wet. Natural we though it was a roof leak. we called a roofer and he felt he found the problem. About 2 months go by and mother In Law said i think the wet spot is getting worst. we go in the attic and there is a water line going to a outside fauset. you could not see a leak until i shined my flash light in a certain way. it was such a fine mist you could not see it until the light was turn the right way. i cut out about 4 inches of the pipe and put a couplin in it. Problem solved. and of corse repaired sheet rock.

i was talking to a plumber and he told me about this bug. i thougt i was getting pumked. so i goole it and found this. i have been working in construction for over 50 years and this does sounds fishie. but i have seen some weird stuff.

it seem like the manufactor would be testing this and fine a solution