Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
itsmeveve

I need well water help

itsmeveve
9 years ago

We don't seem to be having a soap issue that is often talked about.

This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:43

Comments (31)

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Not a good idea to reuse salt.

    When you cleaned the brine tank did you mess with the float/brine pickup in the round tube?

    When you clean a brine tank with a Fleck 5600 control valve the softener puts water back into the brine tank to make brine as the LAST step in regeneration so you would have to add water to make brine initially. The amount of water would be determined by the BF setting and the BLFC in the control valve. From your picture 4 gallons should be adequate. A close-up picture of the control valve on the softener would help.

    Has the softener regenerated since you cleaned the brine tank? If yes, then it should have put water back into the brine tank. If no, then initiate a manual regeneration before you go to bed tonight and see if there's water in the brine tank tomorrow. Good idea to keep just enough salt in the brine tank to cover the water and check weekly.

    The way to tell if a softener is operating properly is to test the HARDNESS before and after the softener. Testing TDS is not testing hardness.

    Is your RO supplying the water to the fridge?

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for reading my post.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:45

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    You should get a manual for that valve and the parts to fix the buttons.

    Might want to invest in a Hach 5B hardness test kit,

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the hardness test kit suggestion. I will look into that!

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:46

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Taylor kit should work for hardness.

    Contact Fleck (Pentair) and ask them if you can retrofit front panel from a 5600SXT on your valve.

    If not, then a new valve is the most cost effective solution but you still need to get into your old valve's programming to see how it is set or we could start from scratch if you provide the results of a water test from a certified lab (on a well you should be testing at least annually for nitrates and bacteria), how many people, how many bathrooms, and the SFR of the plumbing. Also need to know the size of the resin tank you have (height and diameter). Might be a sticker that says something like 9x48 or 10x54.

    How old is the softener?

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Bless your heart!

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:48

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    That's 15 gpg hardness and I DEFINITELY would be treating that. The same hardness before the softener and after means the softener is not softening OR the softener is only plumbed to soften the hard water. Some people plumb a softener so it only softens hot and some plumb so the softener softens hot and cold BUT not the kitchen. I favor plumbing the soft water everywhere and then adding undersink RO in the kitchen for drinking, cooking, and the ice maker or water spout in the fridge. That needs to be figured out before you spend money on anything.

    Your softener has a 10x54 resin tank so it should be a 1.5 cu ft softener. I agree that not knowing how old and it needs repairs you may not be able to effect better to start new and correctly size a softener for your water conditions and water use.

    Living on a well is more work and more complicated than living on a municipal water system. You have to make the water SAFE and then choose whether to make the water nice. There's a learning curve and some maintenance required but it isn't too difficult.

    Your local Environmental Health Dept should be able to point you to an independent certified lab or try the Yellow Pages.

    You want to test for hardness, iron (ferrous and ferric), manganese, TDS, pH, nitrates, bacteria, sodium, arsenic, copper, and whatever else the lab thinks cause they should be familiar with the local water.

    I'm happy to help you troubleshoot your softener, repair your softener, or assemble and program a new softener but I no longer recommend correct sizing of softeners online cause it's too much aggravation and wastes too much of my time.

    If you wait Alicienwonderland should be along and will size a softener for you. Pay attention to what she says cause she knows everything about water treatment and also knows everything about what anyone else knows about water treatment.

    If I can help... I will.

  • mdln
    9 years ago

    Hi justalurker - I think I know, but could you explain why ''some people plumb a softener so it only softens hot''

    THANK YOU!

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Some retro softener installations are easier and cheaper to do it that way so that's what the sales person recommends and the customer knows no better.

    Softening only hot protects the water heater but every appliance, fixture, valve, and pipe that sees cold water is still being effected by the hard cold water.

    If you're going to pay for soft water you ought to get it and all the benefits it offers for all your appliances and fixtures... but that's just my opinion.

  • mdln
    9 years ago

    Thanks justalurker.

    I have hard water, but really dislike the slimy feeling of soft water in the shower and when washing my hair [may be a girl thing].

    Do not want ''soft'' water - but would like water that is less hard. Would softening just the hot water do that?

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Softening just the hot water would be the same as not softening hot and cold. Everywhere the hot mixes with cold the water would be less hard but not soft. One could set up a softener to reduce the harness from 15 gpg to say 3 or 5 gpg and only have hard water instead of really hard water.

    Most people who "don't like the slimy feeling" seem to get used to it over time and women especially like not having to use as much shampoo and little or no conditioner in their hair.

    Keep your water at 15 gpg hardness and you'll cut the service life of your water heater and all appliances dramatically, be replacing faucet washers and seals around the house, use more soap and detergent on a daily basis, and your clothes won't feel soft or last as long.

    Until we see the results of a comprehensive water test from a lab we don't know what else is in your water that you might/should treat..

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    You have already been much help to me today and I thank you for that! I feel like I have a direction tonight I just have to wait for Monday now.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:51

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    On your old RO more than likely you did not replace the drain flow restrictor and it was clogged. Most people don't know they're even in an RO.

    Saddle valves are a water leak waiting to happen and should never be used to provide water to any appliance. If you used a saddle valve to supply water to your new RO I HIGHLY recommend that you remove it and replace whatever pipe you pierced to get water and then install a proper valve and connector to feed water to your RO.

  • mdln
    9 years ago

    Again, thank you justalurker.

    Have lived for 13 years with the hard water, so I realize the consequences.

    Am waiting for certified lab test results - chem & micro analysis. The salespeople found the Hardness to be 17-20gr, Fe 1.2-1.7ppm, total dissolved solids 289.

    What I really want to get rid of is the iron staining & sulfur smell, so am considering a birm-centaur carbon filter.

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    You know I don't notice slimy water or a soap issue. I have been wondering if that was a myth.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:54

  • mdln
    9 years ago

    Thanks itsmeveve. I've noticed it when staying at some friends houses and when on vacation - really disliked it. Could not wait to get home to my nice, hard water.

    To OP - SORRY for the hijack.

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Yea, lots of people notice differences when exposed to them for a very short time. Traveling is the hardest to get used to... different air (altitude), different beds, different water.

    My experience has been that a considerable number of people notice the CHANGE when their water is softened but over time VERY FEW want to change back and women are the most reluctant to go back to hard water.

    Lots of falsehoods out there regarding soft water... bad for you to drink is one. Nonsense. Softening water adds salt... not true. softening water adds sodium and sodium is not salt. In fact an 8-ounce (237-milliliter) glass of softened water generally contains less than 12.5 milligrams of sodium, which is well within the Food and Drug Administration's definition of "very low sodium." Thus, it's unlikely that sodium in softened water would pose a risk for most healthy people.

    One of my favorites is... I won't install an RO cause it takes out all the good stuff in the water. Yet, those people lug giant plastic bottles to the water machine at Walmart every week and buy... RO water, cause that water machine is an RO.

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    As for the RO system I love mine and I know its dead water when it comes out.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:56

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    I'm not a doctor, don't play one on TV, and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night BUT... as I read, and my doctor tells me, almost ALL of the minerals the human body needs it gets from food and not from water. The minute amounts of minerals in water and the relatively low volume of water we consume everyday is insignificant compared to the volume of the daily required minerals and other stuff in food.

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I need to do to that and how often.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 1:59

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    we have .

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 2:04

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    What I said was "as I read, and my doctor tells me, almost ALL of the minerals the human body needs it gets from food and not from water" not it's best to get everything from our food"

    There are studies I've read that say that the amount of minerals the body can absorb from water is much, much lower than what the body gets from food.

    I respect your 2 years studying minerals but I have to go with documented studies and the 10 years my doctor invested in his MD and the 40 years he's been practicing medicine, a couple chemist/biologist buddies, and the RN CIC I am married to.

    EVERYTHING i read states that the low concentration of minerals and low volume of water ingested daily is INSIGNIFICANT compared to the mineral levels we get from food.

    Regarding "we have depleted the minerals from our soil" that is quite a sweeping generalization and I'll guess there are a few organic farmers out there who will disagree. We have to shop for the quality of food we want just like we have to shop for the quality of anything we buy unless we don't care.

    Regarding your well system... might be a good expense to get a local independent water treatment pro in there to diagnose and repair your system. You can pick their brain, watch, and get them to document the required maintenance and schedule. Consider the cost tuition.

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I never gave thought to the amount that might be in the water to filter out. Now you have sparked my curiosity!

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 2:06

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    There are people who think they can move into a house with a well and just suck on that straw in the ground and everything will be OK. There are requirements that the water must be potable at time of sale but that only means the water meets the minimum government stands for safe water not that the water doesn't have other problems that you can or should or want to treat. Well water can have low pH and that's OK if you don't mind completely re-plumbing the home down the road. Well water can be ludicrously hard and eat your washing machine and dishwasher alive or cause you to replace your water heater every two or three years. Well water can have iron that will stain and just looks yucky. Could be bacteria, nitrates (bacteria and nitrates are tested for to get an occupancy cert but you should test for them annually.), arsenic, and a whole list of other stuff you might not want to imbibe.

    On the other hand there are people who have what many would consider awful water and they drink, cook, and bathe in it without a second thought or even a first thought. I'd never do that to my family... especially kids. I'd research water quality BEFORE I started looking at houses on wells.

    As I previously posted... "Living on a well is more work and more complicated than living on a municipal water system. You have to make the water SAFE and then choose whether to make the water nice. There's a learning curve and some maintenance required but it isn't too difficult". You're willing to put in the time and do the homework so consider my advice in the last paragraph of my last post. I would talk to your neighbors and see who they recommend for water treatment or who they don't recommend then hit the Yellow Pages and find a good local independent water treatment pro... NOT a plumber. Self help forums are great for addressing specific problems and providing guidance BUT what you need to learn needs to be shown to you right there on site.

    Until we know exactly what is in your water no one can speak intelligently to the treatment you should consider.

    This post was edited by justalurker on Sun, Sep 28, 14 at 19:03

  • mdln
    9 years ago

    Actually there is some good medical research published in respectable, peer-reviewed medical journals suggesting hard water may be healthier. Just a couple below.

    American Heart Association Journal - Stroke
    Calcium and Magnesium in Drinking Water and Risk of Death From Cerebrovascular Disease
    Conclusions "The results of the present study show that there is a significant protective effect of magnesium intake from drinking water on the risk of cerebrovascular disease.

    http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutrientschap10.pdf
    WATER HARDNESS AND CARDIOVASCULAR DISEASE: A REVIEW OF THE EPIDEMIOLOGICAL STUDIES, 1957-78
    CONCLUSIONS The primary value of the studies reported during 1957-1979 was to call attention to the possible public health benefits of water hardness and need for additional research. Many, but not all, of the epidemiological studies published during 1957 to 1979 reported an inverse association between cardiovascular mortality and water hardness. Lower cardiovascular death rates were found in populations where the water supply contained relatively high levels of water hardness or calcium and magnesium compared to populations in areas with low levels. This protective effect was found for populations throughout the world, especially when country-wide studies were conducted. Limited information was available about the magnitude of the association or causality. Several reviewers estimated that populations who live in soft water areas may have, at best, a 25% percent excess cardiovascular disease mortality risk than populations in hard water areas.

    Can Med Assoc J. 108(11) 1369-1373.
    Relationship of drinking water quality (hardness-softness) to cardiovascular mortality in Newfoundland
    The profile of mortality in Newfoundland was analysed for all deaths occurring in 1969 of persons 35 to 69 years of age, of whom the total was 1036. An exceptionally high cardiovascular mortality (793 deaths/100,000) was noted for St. John's, the capital city of Newfoundland, a city which has an extremely soft drinking-water supply. This high rate corresponds to that observed in the âÂÂhigh mortality beltâ reported for the east coast of the United States, and in conjunction with data from mainland Canada, extends the belt across the entire eastern aspect of North America. The proportion of cardiovascular deaths of men occurring outside the hospital was less within hard drinking-water areas in Newfoundland than in the soft water areas of the province. Thus, the statistics reported here of cardiovascular mortality confirm evidence reported elsewhere on âÂÂmacro-geographicâ variations in this disease(s) as well as âÂÂmicro-geographicâ regional variations which may be dependent upon local environmental factors.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Medical research

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    @ mdln,
    Take note that ion exchange softening exchanges sodium or potassium ions for calcium and MANGANESE (not magnesium) ions. Another consideration is that there are differences between NATURALLY soft water and water softened by ion exchange.

    The information I've been reading is more contemporary than the 60's and 70's and softening efficiency has improved dramatically since Woodstock.

    I'm getting confused whose and which post and question I'm addressing. Hijacking threads simply confuses everyone but the hijacker.

    Regardless of position on the subject it deserves it's own thread not interspersed among questions and concerns posed by the OP and replies attempting to help.

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    9 years ago

    "Take note that ion exchange softening exchanges sodium or potassium ions for calcium and MANGANESE (not magnesium) ions."

    Must have gotten your wires crossed a bit. Hardness is primarily calcium and MAGNESIUM, not manganese. An ion exchange softener will, however, remove manganese as well - it just doesn't like to release it again during regen without a little extra prodding.

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Yup, a senior moment. It's the Mad Cow and the confusion of the thread.

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Oh I took your recommendation to heart. Appliances have had no issues.

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 2:11

  • itsmeveve
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I thought I would have no more questions

    This post was edited by itsmeveve on Fri, Oct 3, 14 at 2:13

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    If you want to know the hardness and iron content of your water then you only test for hardness and iron.

    And again... "Until we know exactly what is in your water no one can speak intelligently to the treatment". Not me, not you, not whoever told you "that the water only needs to be tested for Iron and hardness in order to set up my softener".

    IAnd now I leave you to Alice...