You made a truly excellent choice. For the price, no other faucet company in the world can compare to a Delta faucet, our Best Value faucet for 2019.

@hopelandfarms, I, too, chose to go with Delta throughout our remodel (four baths, ack) and so far, so good. The only negative so far is how pesky the fingerprints seem to be on the brushed steel finishes. I did polished chrome in one bath (guest) and I'm amazed at how easy it is to keep looking new.

We choose the SS too. Bummer- I thought it would be easier to keep spot free. Oh well-nothing perfect in this ol'world. Enjoy your remodel!

@hopelandfarms, I've adjusted my behavior to always lift the faucet handle from underneath (sometimes with my knuckles) and that has helped a lot. Hoping I can re-train the family... :)

The things we do...! Underneath sounds good.Some times I have to remind myself my mother didn't even have indoor plumbing growing up. We've come along way.

I will say this for a fact, if the company is large enough to have a derivative line they can get it. Example.. I sold Sony and Pioneer equipment for two major retailers. They both had their $99.00 receiver. They were identical products with just a model number change. One store had the sl-150 and the other store had it as the slx-150. Same receiver. Why was this done? So the consumer couldn't price match between the two stores. So when you crossed the street to see if they would match a price if it wasn't on sale that day for 99. The answer was no because they had the 'most recent new' model. The one across the street was being 'replaced'.

That was the game!

There has never been any irrefutable proof, such as an internal company email, that plumbing fixtures sold at big boxes are inferior to those sold at plumbing supply houses. None. Ever.

So the Cambria and Corian that's sold at the big boxes are "seconds"? That's nuts.

The big boxes buy Cambria, Corian, and Kohler by the train car load. When you're that big a player, you get gargantuan discounts. The huge price differences are created by negotiation, not created by using inferior parts.

I will continue to enjoy driving a stake through the heart of this myth.

I DO know I went through this type research, big box vs dealer, when shopping for a John Deere lawn tractor. So went to the local JD dealer and flat out asked. Manager STRESSED that they were the same parts, all from factory, serviced the same at dealerships regardless of whether bought there. Walmart, Lowe's, etc, etc.

So...I can't help but apply to this.

If I were to see 2 water valves lazored in halves, I might reconsider.

I am glad that people understand that there is no lesser quality if you buy from a Costco for example.

I am very familiar with the industry. There are mainly two reasons for a manufacturer (like Hansgrohe) to sell to Costco and Ferguson for example.

It is all about volume and manufacturing cost. To keep the production lines running, you need the volume and this comes from the big box stores. You also don't want to produce a second cheaper part, this kills the volume idea. This would mean extra parts to purchase, extra item numbers in the system, extra inventory. This kills lean production and administration. Another reason is that a well-reputed company like Hansgrohe will not risk it's brand name and sell lower quality. No way.

So if you look at a Hansgrohe faucet at Costco you will sometimes see that the design might be slightly different than the very similar one (almost a twin) from Ferguson. This might have to be done for the reason that the customer thinks it is slightly different.

You might say that Ferguson brings volume, too. You are right! The higher price has also another reason: when you build a house and you buy the faucet, it goes from the manufacturer to wholesale to plumber to general contractor to you. They all cut a profit margin.

The Costco route is: manufacturer to Costco to you. This means less pockets to fill until you hold it in your hand.

The same is true for so called "Private Label" products: a brand manufacturer needs the volume for efficient manufacturing. They produce the exact same thing and sell it under their brand or sell it to Costco where it is called Kirkland.

And the manufacturers know what excellent warranty Costco gives their customers. Usually, you can return products much longer than in other stores. Would you as a manufacturer sell a lesser quality product to Costco?

Hope that helps.

By the way: almost all my faucets are Hansgrohe from Costco. Zero problems. After 5 years cartridges move as smooth as silk like on the first day.

And I do not work at Costco or Hansgrohe or have any problem with wholesale.

It is Manufacturing 101 and the basic concept of lean production and marketing.

peter-

Excellent insights!

Dear Peter!

Is there any difference besides style & price in these two faucets if the interior guts are the same? The higher priced version (Sleek) a plumbing retailer wants to sell for $444.00!

Hello Julie, it is very hard to compare different models from one manufacturer. What I was referring to are the same faucets (Example Hansgrohe Talis) at the plumber's retailer and at Costco.

I am not familiar with the interior of the Moen products.

Ask their customer service hotline. They will give you a good answer.

I looked up your Sleek model and the Essie model: this is like comparing apple to oranges.

Home Depot has almost a $200 price difference between the two as well. The one might be the medium line, the other one is high end and maybe has a different touchless feature.

In other words: the model "Sleek" from a plumber's retailer is maybe more expensive that the one from build(dot)com or Amazon. But if it is the same manufacturer and model name, I am very certain that it is the same quality.

Hope that helps

By the way: build(dot)com is a Ferguson company that caters to the end user directly. Why does Ferguson do that: sell to the plumber ($$) and to the end user ($)? They see how the big box stores steal their business.

Hi Peter, thank you! Looks like the less expensive model has the same features as the more expensive model but the more expensive model is truly 'sleeker', more modern, more attractive. I found the corresponding dish soap pump too. Now I'm in a rabbit hole wondering if the sheen of the stainless steel will make a difference as it looks more like satin nickel than true stainless and if it even matters. Oh boy!

I THANK you for the explanation of the part explanation. I was convinced that the big box retailers had an inferior product, not I realize that's not the case and it's a retail game. I currently work in a medical instrumentation company where I'm not only dealing with parts but the intricate components of them. I also worked in for a company that makes the presidential helicopters (you know what it is) and the mark-up on gov parts is insane! So REALLY good to understand volume and distribution and all of that. Maybe that's why I don't believe in conspiracy theories! It's all a sham:).

Julie-

"Stainless steel" is not a single finish, nor is "satin nickel." One manufacturer's satin nickel can look noticeably different from another's. Sometimes even different fixtures from the same manufacturer will have variations in the specified finish. I draw the line at mixing, say, brass and stainless fixtures in the same room, but I really can't get too excited about choosing between very similar finishes, like stainless and satin nickel. Further, once I install it and am no longer focused, I don't even really look at it much after a week or two.

Hi kudzu9 - with that said the more expensive option has a slightly different design style. Would you agree that the soap dispenser and faucet is the much better buy/choice then?

After 7 years of comments. How stupid.

I just found this thread the other day so I don’t see anything stupid about everyone’s thoughts. Tsk tsk

Well there's about 100 comments. Why ask another question????

Julie-

You should buy whatever one you like. I wasn’t arguing for or against either one...just suggesting you shouldn’t perseverate about two very similar finishes.

Hi Kudzu9 - I didn’t think you were arguing:). I ended up going to a plumbing retailer because of the warranty being lifetime and Home Depot only has a limited warranty. I checked:) I didn’t purchase anything yet but the warranty alone inspires me to get it from the plumbing retailer alone.

Doug_b - I can’t speak for anyone else who kept the thread going but I don’t believe the first person that is a complete stranger that I’m reading on a forum. I actually do research. For the people that were in the discussion I’m sure it was useful to them so you shouldn’t really care.

Julie-

A warranty should be through the manufacturer...not through a retailer that may not exist at the time you need it honored. Are you saying you’re getting different written warranties on the same item? And/or is the limited warranty for a fixed period of time, or is it a limited lifetime warranty?

Yes, it it through the manufacturer Moen. Lifetime instead of limited. I have the disclaimer from Home Depot. I will call Moen & the plumbing retailer to see what is in writing.

Guess what? Product number 7882SRS, the Moen Genta is another model I’ve seen in person. Home Depot’s price is $342 and I was quoted $379.35. For the short difference I don’t really see the point. I don’t trust everything I read or hear. This thread probably went on for 7 years because people are NOT stupid and don’t believe everything they hear by an authority or strangers behind a keyboard. I can say for sure after reading what’s on Moen’s website it’s limited lifetime. Lifetime is lifetime. Anything less, before I die should not have the word lifetime in it. It should say 5 year warranty.

For the record... so who is lying? Moen in writing or every contractor, plumber and plumbing hardware company out there? Note, companies lie all the time and no one that I am aware of has sued Moen over this, then again who would? Too expensive to fight over dollars & cents.

I can say for sure after reading what’s on Moen’s website it’s limited lifetime. Lifetime is lifetime. Anything less, before I die should not have the word lifetime in it. It should say 5 year warranty.

It is lifetime for consumer purchases and installations and 5 years for commercial, industrial and business. That looks like a standard lifetime warranty to me.

Bry911, I read it too. Note that the consumer must own their own home and still own that home as the "warranty period". I do, so no problem there. They replace parts. Now if you buy your product on Amazon, there is a 4 year warranty through Assurion (which I have used with my Verizon service/cell phone) which is GREAT. That includes LABOR as well along with the manufacturer's warranty. So if all is the same, IF it is (I can't argue it, I just can't prove it), it would be great to buy through Amazon. If a faucet is close to 400 bucks, think about how much it takes a plumber to come to fix it even with free parts! I like the idea of having Assurion come to my house, fix it quickly and I'm not out from using my faucet. This thread is very helpful because it's making me consider all angles. For those who have the attitude of "It's all the same, believe me!", I can but not entirely sure of it. I would put money down the people who work at plumbing houses are all brainwashed to think the products are inferior. If they truly are, then what I'm saying is incorrect. I've read that eggs are all the same and packaged under different name brands... same with many generic food products. I know the retail game and the brand shifting. I just don't know this area of expertise and will a.) have to accept this entire thread is correct or b.) my contractor was correct.

Hey, 4 doctors told me a teeny, tiny cute mole was nothing. Turns out I had melanoma after I didn't believe FOUR MDs and went to the dermatologist. With that said, I'll believe it if I think it's true. It's not life or death if I spend about 40 bucks more for it but I'd prefer to get this super duper warranty from Assurion through Amazon.

This will be my final comment (unless the male ego on this thread attempts to insult). I just spoke to someone who I completely trust. He was a former narcotics detective, a stand up guy and works in his mid 70’s at a big box chain. He was a cabinet maker and has plumbing experience since 1960. He used his personal cell to talk to me not to be on a recorded line. He believes that yes, the inner parts are different. Usually the pull down hose is thinner amongst other elements. He says that the practice could have changed... Possibly. He doesn’t even buy parts where he works. Companies that sell inferior parts will always protect themselves and I don’t believe everything that I read even if it’s a part of their website. Companies write their own reviews you know. The only way to truly know is to buy the same part from a big box store and a plumbing supply store and gut them. I don’t care enough to do that. As for buying it from Amazon it sounds great getting a protection plan but if I have an inferior faucet it’s more likely to break down then just spending the extra 40 bucks and waiting for parts from Moen. Yes I’d be without a faucet until I get it fixed and I would have to pay a plumber. I’m not going to risk it and I’m just going to buy it from the plumbing supply company. I will have free parts for life and just hope I made the best decision. For the diehard believers that it’s not true I will completely revisit this thread if you do a gut test on any product for sport.

Just the facts.

This will be my final comment (unless the male ego on this thread attempts to insult). I just spoke to someone who I completely trust. He was a former narcotics detective, a stand up guy and works in his mid 70’s at a big box chain. He was a cabinet maker and has plumbing experience since 1960. He used his personal cell to talk to me not to be on a recorded line. He believes that yes, the inner parts are different. Usually the pull down hose is thinner amongst other elements. He says that the practice could have changed...

I am glad that you verified whatever it is you came here to verify. However, your friend is incorrect.

I am a managerial accountant with a PhD in managerial accounting and other than having extensive experience in inventory management I also happen to be the person who has taught inventory management to quite a few people whose job it now is to manage parts inventory at manufacturers and did some work for Wolseley PLC (the Ferguson parent company at the time). Also, my father was a plumber and owned a fairly large plumbing company, I got my apprentice plumbing license when I was 18, and worked summers for my father in the field.

First, let's clarify...different item numbers may have different components as that is the very nature of different item numbers. Home Depot and Lowes may choose to stock different items numbers, but have access to the full line of products from most of their suppliers.

Next, the idea that PricewaterhouseCoopers is going to give a clean audit report when the same part has two different components is preposterous. They would flag that in half a second. If they didn't, the company could easily manage earnings just by declaring Finished Goods inventory is the better or inferior product (which is illegal). You could easily produce fraudulent financial statements and no auditor is going to sign their name to an unqualified audit report with that. It is patently ridiculous and I mean the earth is flat ridiculous.

Furthermore, think of managing inventory in a factory if the same part number had two different quality components in it. You would never be able to keep them separate. How would you manage returns and overproduction? It is preposterous to think that a legitimate and large manufacturing company with a fairly extensive inventory and parts supply would even consider this for a second.

Which brings us to the next part. People often misunderstand exactly what drives cost in a factory. A company the size of Moen is going to have an Activities Based Cost workup and they are going to realize that changeover and materials inventory storage are going to quickly destroy any savings that would have been created by using two parts. Do you really think the savings that they get from "the thinner hose" is worth them stopping all production, taking all of the old materials inventory off the line, storing it in its own unique place, resetting all the machinery, changing all the tools and dies, and loading new materials inventory on the line is a net savings?

I don't know how to put this to rest. People tend to believe the things they have some vested interest in believing. The guys at Ferguson and your plumbers are not lying to you, they are just mistaken. They have a cognitive bias and when they hear conflicting reports they tend to put the most weight behind the one they want to be correct rather than the one that is. They may even truly believe that the same part feels different when they know it came from Lowes. Test this theory if you want. Buy two faucets from Lowes and tell them one came from Fergusons and one from Lowes and ask them to tell you which is which. Dimes to dollars says they will pick one and assure you it is superior and it came from Ferguson.

Nice credentials I personally won't do a side by side comparison over 40 dollars though:). I apparently am not the only one who has questioned it for years. All I know is that for a $40 difference, I don't have to think about it. I just can't understand but know companies lie all the time yet how can Moen legally write what they did on their website without a lawsuit. I wonder if the contractor I'm using for my kitchen install bothered to read this thread. He is the one that originally told me not to buy a faucet from a box store.

"I am glad that you verified whatever it is you came here to verify. However, your friend is incorrect." I'm sure you weren't being sarcastic. I will satiate your curiosity though. I came for an exchange of ideas which I clearly see two. People that believe and people that don't. I've posted a YT video (I'm sure there are a ton) where someone DID take the time to gut parts and yes they were different. I know you're proud of your experience and not denying you have said experience. Thing is, you don't work for Moen and can't really speak on their behalf. What I got out of this thread is this: I could buy the faucet from Amazon and most likely it will be ok. If I get it from a plumbing supply store I will never have a shred of doubt. For a $40 dollar difference I prefer the latter. Kudos on the PhD and your experience though. I've done a lot of interesting and valuable things in my life too; I'm just trying to buy a faucet here ha.

For the record, my friend said they could have changed their practices. This is a separate person from the contractor I am using to update my kitchen who told me the same thing. Technically only one is incorrect. If this practice never, ever existed, no one can tangibly prove it.

I just can't understand but know companies lie all the time yet how can Moen legally write what they did on their website without a lawsuit.

You are not James Joyce... I can't follow your stream of consciousness writing and am not going to try.

Please let me clarify for you. I don't care what you do. I am not trying to convince you to spend more money at Ferguson, I will always advocate for doing so for reasons that have nothing to do with it being a better part. So my post was not an attempt to convince you that you are incorrect, it was ensuring that someone else doesn't mistakenly give your post significant credence in this exchange of ideas.

“You are not James Joyce... I can't follow your stream of consciousness writing and am not going to try.”

Fantastic. I won’t follow yours either. Every man trying to prove they’re right has an imaginary 10 inch record in their pants.

Ferguson is just a company named within a YouTube video. I’ve never entered a store nor heard of one in CT.

At this point, again, it’s a $40 dollar difference. Who cares. I’ll make that very severe decision when I’m close to my kitchen counter install. I take things at face value to consider if something may or may not be true. You are self-assured in your position. Good then. Enjoy everything you buy with confidence. I will do the same.

One thing I can assess from our slight interaction is that you are arrogant and not as talented lest smart as you may think, PhD and all.

Have a nice day!

I'm still waiting on photos of the two rough ins, sawn in half, for comparison. I've been in Ferguson's in Naples a few occasions. Beautiful things. Unique. Grand selection. Great staff. Huge prices. But even their parts warehouse rarely, if even once, had what I needed for my projects, and I'd end up at Ace Hardware. Finding them myself.

In the meanwhile, two Allen + Roth (Big blue L store's brand) matching sets for present house. Stainless escutcheon plates, rather than plastic, sold me. Brass 'innerds'.

If any brand still at least assembled in USA? Let me know.

Well despite the self-proclaimed know it all in the thread (with -0- profile to cross reference), I decided to think what logically made sense (to ME). I bought a Moen faucet and soap dispenser from Amazon with a 4 year warranty with labor included. If I didn't like what I got, I could easily return it, period. I received both and of course the soap basin and pump will be plastic & the housing, a beautiful nickel. Soap dispenser, good Got the faucet today and was happy to see the huge metal part glaring back at me. Yay. I don't believe anything until I see it. Now that the mystery is over, if anything happens with the faucet in 4 years, it will be fixed FOR FREE. Now armed with this information I may casually let the people trying to steer me otherwise what I received, nicely without the attitude.

LOL...

I am sorry that you have you been cooped up for so long that this is how you get your drama. I don't know who the self-proclaimed expert is, however, I am going to assume you are referring to me, as I claimed some expertise at inventory management.

Please note, I said that the same model number will be the same faucet wherever you purchase it from. So I don't understand why you say, "despite the self-proclaimed know it all in the thread (with -0- profile to cross reference), I decided to think what logically made sense (to ME)," while doing exactly what I said.

Also please note, I am an accounting professor and would be happy to satisfy you of my credentials but why would my profile on a Home and garden site need my accounting professor profile on it? You also have -0- profile to cross reference...

The idea that a manufacturer would have two different part diagrams for one part number is a rather ridiculous assertion that has been addressed by manufacturers and other experts. Really, it is an earth is flat type of assertion, but it has legs.

A plumber has a vested interest in your buying a faucet from Ferguson, however, ask him how he would order a replacement cartridge for the Amazon 7882SRS if it is different. The Moen 7882SRS has the same parts diagram from Home Depot, Ferguson, and Amazon. That is because it is the same part. There isn't a conspiracy.

I understand this thread is old, but I just had to add my comment and experience. I am doing a remodel of two bathrooms and replacing the countertops in the kitchen. The plumber installing the bathroom and kitchen plumbing fixtures advised that the fixtures ordered from a plumbing supply business were superior to big box stores. The contractor and plumber stated the reason the products were cheaper was that parts inside the fixtures were cheap plastic while the plumbing supply store was made of metal. It's been really hard to believe.

It just so happens this plumber has a plumbing supply showroom. I went to his business and chose several plumbing fixtures for the two baths and the kitchen. When he forwarded his quote, he sent a retail and wholesale version. It was quite a difference.

However, the kicker on his wholesale prices was an additional markup of 15%! I don't think this is fair because the plumber is also charging me quite a bit of change to install these fixtures. Why the markup? It brings those wholesale prices almost close to retail.

If you read this whole thread you will understand that identical faucets from a plumbing supply house and a big box store are identical...inside and out. It's true you can get cheap faucets from a big box store, but that's comparing apples and oranges. Your plumber is blowing smoke for obvious reasons.

Original poster here: my faucet looks gorgeous, had no problems and has a warranty from Amazon that a plumber would fix it if it failed. I examined the insides and they were metal & plastic where it called for plastic. plumbers want to make $

@ Julie

Amazon provided you with a warranty on a non-Amazon basics product?

If you have a copy of that warranty, I would like to see it. Mail it to starcraftreviews@yahoo.com.

I’m not giving out my personal email. The warranty is from Assurion 4 year protection. if you want to read on it go to Amazon and read the fine print for Moen faucets or anything.

@ Julie

Thanks for the info. I did not realize you had purchased an extended warranty. I do know that Amazon does not standard warranty any of its products except Amazon Basics items.

What brand of faucet did you buy, if you don't mind my asking?

Seems rather pricy to pay $300 plus to protect a faucet for four years. First, a quality faucet like Delta, Moen, American Standard, etc. is highly unlikely to develop a problem in that time. Second, a quality faucet comes with a lifetime product replacement warranty. And, third, swapping out a faucet has never taken me more than an hour, and it's a pretty easy project.

The protection plan was under 50 bucks for items $300-350:). Totally worth it. Sorry it debunked your theory. In short, I got a better price, had absolutely NO problems with it and it is protected. I also have a warranty with Moen. Win/win.

@Julie you note that the warranty was "Totally worth it." Have you already had warranty service on your faucet?

Aren’t you guys bored of talking about this yet? Yes, totally worth it because the protection includes the plumber price to reinstall. Less than $50 is half of what any tradesperson comes to just come out. The manufacturer’s warranty is not lifetime. I believe if you buy the inflated price at a plumbing store it is. If anyone has a problem replacing a faucet after 20/30 years shouldn’t own a house:). I have no interest talking about this anymore; it bores me.

Julie-

What theory? You're the one who posted the original picture with that price. And if you only paid $50, you might want to confirm with Asurion on what is covered. I've had Asurion warranties on other items and they typically provide replacement/repair after you ship the item to them. I'm skeptical that Asurion is going to send a plumber to your house.

@Julie shows up and notes "Original poster here:" Since she originally posted this thread 8 years ago, I was curious why the warranty was "Totally worth it," my assumption being that it must have needed service in the eight years. I wanted the details of the repair and what was covered. I am not trying to start drama.

@jwillhouse - Your plumber has a vested interest in convincing you to buy things with a markup. I can assure you that the same part numbers are the same no matter where the faucet is ordered from.

As for your contract with your plumber, is it a time and materials contract or cost plus contract? Your post notes that your plumber lists retail, wholesale, and a 15% markup. If it is a time and materials contract and the 15% is the mark up from wholesale to retail, then it is on the low end of markups. If it is a cost plus contract then the markup is on his actual cost less any rebates, so the 15% should get added to what he actually paid not the listed wholesale price.

In a cost plus contract, the 15% is likely unavoidable as it is still a cost even if you buy it somewhere else. Many contractors in a time and materials contract don't allow you to supply your own items.

---

While it is absolutely true that you can benefit from sourcing products cheaper from sources other than you plumber, we should recognize that to some extent it is a zero sum game. Most plumbers are not getting rich off a single family home, they are just finding alternative ways to present the profit they need to make. So while adding profit to a faucet may seem like a ripoff, if all the faucets were bid at cost the plumber would likely just charge more for the installation and you would be in the same position.

It can still be an advantage to you to get your faucet at a cheaper price if your plumber allows, but don't fall into the trap of thinking you are getting ripped off just because the plumber adds profit there instead of somewhere else.

My bad, I contributed to the thread but was not the original poster. I post a lot not here. I haven’t thought about this thread in a while. Compumom is the original poster. I bought my protection plan in Feb 2021. Faucet works beautifully, no complaints and I saved a lot of money. I never needed service. No drama please. For the record, yes I spoke with Assurion about the fine print, yes plumber included for repairs. I have used Assurion for other protection; they pay out. Be skeptical if you wish. Bye everyone! These emails are in my junk folder. I will continue to buy quality products smartly. Protections plans are for protection (who cares if you never use it; you get it if you need it). For the record, I didn't pay a 15% markup as it was just installing a sink, a faucet and a soap pump. No biggie. 15% is not much money but the exact faucet I was looking at a plumber's supply store at was 50% over what I paid, so go figure.

@bry911 Thank you. I needed that. I appreciate your open, honest and thorough comment. It makes me feel better about the whole deal. Yes, the plumber is allowing me to furnish the faucets. I didn't like the one I chose at his showroom. He will install them for me. I did purchase the materials for the shower and bath tub from him.

Plumbing supply vs Big box stores has always been an interesting topic. I have researched it and came to the same conclusion you shared in your post. It doesn't matter where you purchase as long as the model numbers match.

Thank you. I enjoyed your post. I'm glad you dropped by. :)