Shop Products
Houzz Logo Print
dneubecker

Soften only hot water tank? Aliceinwonderland advice....

mdln
9 years ago

Hello,

I see this post, albiet old, by aliceinwonderland who seems to be one of the experts on this forum. Alice if you are out there, do you still recommend this?

Is anyone doing this? Softening just the water going to hot water tank.

How well (? pun) is it working? Do you like the results?

Thank you.

Comments (19)

  • User
    9 years ago

    It was a recommendation for that specific poster who had been emailing me as well with some special circumstance. Generally, softening only the hard water is not recommended, but it can work under the following circumstances:

    1. You water is only moderately hard, 6 gpg or lower

    2. Dishwasher is plumbed with hot water, or you have one with a built-in softener

    3. There are no other issues with your water

    A better solution is to soften all of the water and, if you like the taste of your hard water, plumb a separate line to a drinking water faucet.

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    THANK YOU for the quick reply.

    It's just washing hair in soft water that I really dislike, so am trying to figure out a way to accomplish that.

    Have lived with the hard water for 13 years, realize soft water is better.

    Any suggestions (beyond ''get used to it'')?

  • User
    9 years ago

    If you have a softener installed...

    One solution would be to plumb untreated (hard) water from before your softener to a convenient sink and wash you hair there. All your plumbing, appliances, and fixtures would still get the benefits of soft water.

    Another solution would be install a connection between the service and return lines at the softener with an inline valve. You can adjust that valve to bleed hard water from service to return and increase the hardness to the level you desire, but that would effect all the plumbing, appliances, and fixtures and you'd need to monitor the hardness to keep it at the level you choose..

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Juntalurker - that may be a viable option, even if it is just a final rinse. Especially since I put a nice big SS farmhouse sink.

    Hmmm...I wonder about washing/rinsing hair in RO water.

    THANK YOU!!!

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Water gurus's (Alice & justalurker) - Would this work?

    What problems do you see with it?

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Water guy today said he never thought of doing this before (that makes me nervous), but said it should work - get me slightly hard water with no odor.

    I am at 17-20gr hardness and want ~6gr, like the Chicago water I grew up with.

  • User
    9 years ago

    Your scheme above is a bad idea. Iron/sulfur removal must be upstream from the softener.

    Since you will have iron removal, there is one other possibility. You can regen your softener with a low salt dosage. This will result in enough ppm of hardness bleed to mitigate the slippery water feel that you dislike without the problems associated with bypassing hard water into your treated water. All softeners bleed some hardness. At high salt dosage, that amount is less than one ppm and the water feels slippery. As the salt dosage is decreased, hardness bleed creeps up and can approach one grain (17 ppm), depending upon resin quality. It won't be the six you are shooting for, but it won't be slippery either.

    The problem with the hard water bypass you are considering is that the amount of hardness will be nearly impossible to control. Water flow in a residential situation varies widely and, unless you are willing/able to spend a lot more money, you will end up with such a wide range of hardness in the water you use that you will have all of the problems of hard water AND your water will still feel slippery to you much of the time, depending upon flow. Without flow meters and control valves, or a very large mix tank followed by a pump, this just won't work well.

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thank you, aliceinwonderland. I feel like the water treatment people know what they want to sell you, even before they test the water or hear about what I don't like about it.

    The Fe has tested at 1-1-1-1.2-1.5 (tested by 5 different people). The sulfur is ''trace,'' - none of them even wanted to address either of those issues. It is the iron stains and intermittent sulfur odor that I most want fixed.

    Not one (of the 5 different reps) even mentioned the salt dosage could be adjusted. So would it help to have a low quality resin???

    THANK YOU!!!

  • User
    9 years ago

    I would never presume to put words in Alice's mouth, but it seems that one important thing she noted seems to have slipped by you...

    The iron and sulfur odor treatment should be BEFORE the softener regardless of whatever else you do..

    Regarding a hard water bypass... done it many times and not that hard to monitor according to the people who have them. Would require a hardness test kit like the Hach 5b. you'd likely be happy dropping from 17-20 gpg hardness to less than 10 and that is doable since you don't really want soft water.

    Be warned that even if you get your well to the hardness you want, it won't be like the Chicago water you grew up with. That lake water is unique (trying to be politically correct).

  • User
    9 years ago

    Funny you should ask about lower resin quality. In this one very specific instance, a lower quality resin would fit better than a high quality resin, only because it will allow a bit smaller softener to be used. As salt dose is decreased, a larger softener is needed to soften the same amount of water.

    The reps you spoke to probably didn't want to address the Fe/S because they hadn't a clue what to do about it - these are mostly sales people, not water treatment professionals, unfortunately. For iron removal there are several options that you can look at. Without a complete water test [TDS, pH, ferrous Fe, ferric Fe, H2S (this is a test that requires specialized sampling and may be why sulfur is "trace" but you are bothered by it), manganese (often accompanies Fe), nitrates, bacteria, any others that your local water lab typically test for based on local conditions], I can't make a specific recommendation.

    A list of possibilities:

    1. Softener: A softener with specialty resin is capable of removing dissolved iron, up to 7 ppm (mg/L) but asking a softener to remove iron at those upper limits is really pushing it so I would not recommend this method. In addition, a softener will become fouled with particulate iron, which you have at least sporadically. A softener is not a good option for you because you wish to have hardness bleed which requires a low salt dosage when iron removal requires a high salt dosage. A softener will not remove sulfur compounds.

    2. Oxidation/Filtration: An oxidizer such as ozone, air, or chlorine may be used to react with the iron and force it to become particulate iron that can then be removed via filtration. This will also remove most sulfur compounds. A typical setup would involve the oxidizing unit, a holding tank, then a media filter. This type of system works quite well, but takes some expertise in sizing - you would want a water treatment pro that you trust to help you with this option.

    3. Oxidizing filtration media: This type of treatment consists of a sealed tank filled with one of several media. Water passes through and is oxidized and filtered by the media. Most will remove sulfur compounds as well as iron. These are relatively easy to operate and what I would recommend for the average homeowner. There are several different media that can be used:

    • manganese greensand: water runs through for treatment. The media must be regenerated with potassium permanganate. Care must be taken with dealing with potassium permanganate as it readily dies organic material, such as your skin, a purple-brown color. Some people are quite comfortable dealing with the chemical; others are not.

    • Synthetic greensand: This is essentially the same as option (a) but consists of a coating of greensand on a silica sand core so does not require as much backwash flow. Service flow rate is 2 - 5 gpm/sqft. Backwash flow rate is 12 gpm/sqft.

    • birm: This media acts as a catalyst to force oxidation of iron. While it...

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    You guys are great, feel like I am in grad school learning from wise professors!

    All said iron level was so low (1-1.5 ppm) the water softener would take care of it.

    @ justalurker - if I do a hard water bypass, I would get no Fe removal on that bypassed water, right?

    @ Alice - so low quality resin and small softener, right? So, what is a low quality resin?

    Am getting complete water analysis done, before I buy anything.

  • User
    9 years ago

    A softener would absolutely take care of 1-1.5 ppm iron, provided a high salt dosage is used for regeneration, regens are done every four days or fewer and steps are taken to strip the iron from the resin.

    If you choose to regen with a low salt dosage, you would need ar larger softener, not a small one. Any "standard" resin will do - not DOW. Again, I just want to make it clear that this is a recommendation specific to your situation and water treatment goals and is not something I would normally recommend.

    If you do a hard water bypass you would do it AFTER the Fe/S removal and BEFORE the softener. If you don't install a separate Fe/S removal and you do a hard water bypass, you will continue to smell sulfur compounds and have iron staining.

  • User
    9 years ago

    If the Fe treatment was before the softener then you would do the hardness bypass after that and before the softener to the softener output.

    Get your treatment in order and get 0 hardness water with iron and sulfur odor removed and whatever else you might find in your water if you get a comprehensive water test from an independent certified lab..

    Then plumb water after the Fe treatment but before the softener to a sink to wash your hair.

    The way you are now you have the worst of all possibilities.

    Not a fan of poor quality resin to solve this problem but you do what you want and let us all know how it works out.

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    @justalurker - this is what you meant, right?

  • User
    9 years ago

    Is your softener ONLY softening the water heater or the whole house?

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    The whole house, except for the small amount of water bypassed into cold water supply.

    Figured, please correct me if I am wrong, that would keep unsoftened/hard water out of the water heater and dishwasher.

  • User
    9 years ago

    I'll ask you again... Is your softener ONLY softening the water heater or the whole house?

    Not your picture... what is your softener softening right now.

  • mdln
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Sorry, I misunderstood. I do not have a softener now.

  • ElizabethCampos
    9 years ago

    I don't think it can be only used for water softening and it can not only soften the hot water but also soften the hard water.

    Here is a link that might be useful: septic air pumps