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Water softner sizing help

Posted by UberA3 (My Page) on
Fri, Aug 10, 12 at 18:12

Just moved into new house and didn't feel like paying $1500 for a softner from the builder. Here is my info and my thoughts. Going to fleck unit, loop is 1" so probably 7000.

Hardness 16.8 gpg
Ph 7.9
Iron <100 ppb
Mangnese <5 ppb
Magnesium 25 ppm
Las Vegas city water

4000 sq ft
flow rate at tub with hot and cold fully open 8.1 gpm
1" loop pre-installed
people in home 2-3
4 full baths

There is usually 2 people in the house but a few months out of the year we might have an adult stay with us and have visitors for a week or so a couple times a year. I am pretty sure the 32k would be fine but is there any downside to getting a 40k in case I sell the house or add to the family? I know it will waste a little more salt because it would be regenerating more often than needed to keep it on a 7-9 day schedule to prevent channeling. The builder was going to install a 32k unit. Since the loop is 1" should I go with th 7000 vs the 5600 with 3/4? Also demand or metered?

Here is what one supplier recommended....

Fleck 5600SXT Electronic 3/4 Inch Meter On Demand Control Valve Water Softener 40,000 Grain Capacity
10x44 resin tank
1.25 cubic feet of resin
10 gpm service flow rate
2.5 gpm backwash flow rate< p>
Selected options:
Fleck Valve Connection: 1 Inch Stainless Bypass Valve
Tank Color Option: Blue
Brine Tank Size: 15x17x36 Rect Brine Tank
Softening Resin (1.25 cuft): High Capacity Resin.

I would recommend this softener be installed after your pump pressure tank, and be set to regenerate about every 1600 gallons, which would be a regeneration of about every 7 - 8 days with 3 people in the home.

thoughts and suggestions welcome.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Water softner sizing help

ALWAYS an on demand softener.

5600 is a 3/4" valve and you have 1" loop... 7000SXT is a better choice.

Now, we talk about softener size referring to the volume of resin and NOT the hardness removal capacity. Reason is that ALL softeners have a flexible hardness removal capacity based on the salt dose so a 32k system, as you're calling it, could be a .5 cube, .75 cube, 1 cube , 1.25 cube, or a 1.5 cube softener. See the confusion you could be getting into?

Based on your info a Fleck 7000SXT (comes with it's own bypass valve) 1.25 cube softener will do nicely. Set up for efficiency should be pretty cost effective to run and will just regenerate more frequently when you have visitors.

Make sure you get a top basket for the control valve and a Fleck 2310 safety float in your choice of brine tank. Also, on city water, you want standard hi-capacity resin that is 10% cross-linked so it lasts longer . Don't let them charge you extra for any of this or talk you out of anything.

Curious about your softener quote though... you said LV city water but the quote says "I would recommend this softener be installed after your pump pressure tank" as if you are on well water.


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Ok so the 32k or 40k, how the suppliers have them listed, is dependent on the cube? I am not sure why he said that about the pump as it is indeed city supplied and not a well. Next question PVC connection or 1 1/4" brass and reduce it down? I know the Noryl is good but little weary of PVC. Lastly suppliers' website says it comes with a top basket but makes no mention of the float valve or 10% resin. I see you have mentioned suppliers on here before but couldn't find the threads. Any suppliers that I could look into?

Thanks for your help!!


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RE: Water softner sizing help

"Ok so the 32k or 40k, how the suppliers have them listed"

You have to look past that and check the specs to see that you're getting what you want.

What ever connector is the easiest for you. They are all reliable. click here for Fleck 7000 parts and connectors

If you decide on the 7000SXT make sure you order a couple or three or four H clips for the control valve. Those clips can be broken and you won't find them at the local hardware store or Lowes or HD. They are cheap and good to have as spares. You can see the clip by clicking here

NEVER order a softener online. ALWAYS call and speak to someone who (seems) to know what they're selling. Tell them what you want and don't let them bob and weave or rope-a-dope. Don't be afraid to ask to speak to someone else.

ANY online seller can provide you many more options than they list on their web site. They all order from HUGE regional wholesale distributors who stock almost every option there is for water treatment and then drop-ship to the end user.

I have no connection or relationship with any water treatment company but here's a link for your info... click here for softener example


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Almost forgot...

You also want a gravel under bed in the resin tank. They will tell you you don't need it... gravel under bed mitigates pressure loss through the resin and there is no down side to having it.

Make the seller include it at no charge.


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Great info!! I checked again and the loop is actually 1 1/4" Is the 10% cross linked resin the same as the C-249 option listed?

Thanks for the help!


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RE: Water softner sizing help

and would you recommend the larger brine tank for this installation?


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Another question.. What about a RO system? My sink's cold water was not run through the softener loop for salt intake reasons. Most of the systems say they have a max limit of 10 gpg for hardness. How can I use one of these on my current set up.

Thanks again


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RE: Water softner sizing help

No need for a larger brine tank as long as adequate time is allowed for salt to dissolve.

RO: It should be easy enough to replumb your kitchen sink for soft water. This will do two things for you. It will provide you with the benefits of soft water at your sink and it will allow easy installation of an RO under the sink.

However, if replumbing soft water to the sink is too difficult of expensive at this time, you can install the RO wherever you please and run tubing to a separate faucet at your sink or wherever you wish to have drinking water. Plastic tubing is cheap and easy to run.

First preference should be to have soft water at the sink. Unless you have a SEVERELY sodium-restricted diet due to doctor's orders, soft water is not going to hurt you. You can always regen your softener with KCL (potassium salt) instead of NaCl (sodium salt) if sodium is a huge concern.


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RE: Water softner sizing help

It's actually all pre-plumbed for the RO. My question was more about since the cold for the sink doesn't run through the softener and this is what the RO system ties into will it hurt the RO since my water is harder than the 10 gpg allowed?

Also is the C-249 resin the 10% you spoke about?

Thanks


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RE: Water softner sizing help

It's actually all pre-plumbed for the RO. My question was more about since the cold for the sink doesn't run through the softener and this is what the RO system ties into will it hurt the RO since my water is harder than the 10 gpg allowed?

Also is the C-249 resin the 10% you spoke about?

Thanks


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Yes, higher hardness water will damage the RO membrane. With softened water an RO membrane can last many years. With hard water, you will likely have to replace the membrane annually. During normal use, scale will build up on the membrane. This will result in poor membrane performance and early failure.

Like I said previously, ideally you fix the plumbing. If you don't wish to do so, you have two choices with an RO. You can install it somewhere else where there is soft water feed, or you can install it with hard water feed and replace your membrane and filters more often.

No, Sybron C-249 is a standard 8% crosslinked resin.


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RE: Water softner sizing help

Ok that makes sense. The only available cold water under the sink is un-softened and the put a provision for the fridge icemaker. It's a new house built on a slab so i'll probably just end up replacing the membrane vs reworking the plumbing.

any thoughts on these two RO systems? Worth spending the extra money on the more expensive one?

http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/Reverse-Osmosis-System-5-Stage-50-Gallon-Per-Day-p/ro550.htm

http://www.discountwatersofteners.com/Reverse-Osmosis-System-5-Stage-50-Gallon-Per-Day-p/ro550.htm

Thanks


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RE: Water softner sizing help

This sounds fairly close to my problem.
Except I only have 3/4 plumbing. and not in Vegas.
The cube thing throws me off. I had thought that was just other way to designate grains and capacity.
Could I use Fleck 5610 32,000 grain and upsize to a 1.25 cubic foot resin to get more capacity?

We have 2 people, 3 baths, and 324 ppm hardness. I think about 19 grains if I converted right.


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RE: Water softner sizing help

After much help in the details I ordered my setup yesterday. Went with Fleck 7000sxt 1-1/4" pvc bypass, 1.25 cube with 10% cross linked resin, gravel bed. Ordered 4 extra M clips. All said and done $576 shipped!

Thanks for all your help guys!


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