If the measured SFR is 7.75 gpm you can install a 50 cu ft softener and the SFR will still be 7.75 gpm.

The SFR of a softener canl only limit the SFR you have (measured), not improve it.

Thanks justalurker. I was hoping you'd reply as I found many of your previous posts helpful. Completely agree that the softener cannot improve the SFR. Just wanted to make sure I avoid channeling. Would I have to worry about this with my low measured flow rate at the hose bib? What system recommendations would you give? Thanks again

Important follow up. The main water line coming off meter to hot water heater is 3/4". Water line running to outside hose bib was reduced down to 1/2". So my SFR would not be correct having measured it from the hose bib

If your bath tub has separate hot and cold valves try measuring the SFR there.

Unfortunately after long runs of 3/4" around the house, they are all reduced to 1/2" before termination. I plan on adding a sprinkler system on 3/4 line (off hard water of course) in addition to the water softener. So I'll head out for some plumbing supplies today, tap in to the 3/4" and get back with a more accurate SFR. Sorry, should have got all my facts straight first. Never expected them to reduce at the hose bib.

If your bath tub has separate hot and cold valves measure at the tub... humor me.

Sorry, I should be more clear. I did check the bathtub, which is upstairs, and it took 10s for 1 gallon = 6gpm using cold water line. Even worse, but expected given the longer run and being upstairs. The access to the lines is hard to get at since it is behind tile and I would rather not remove them. But I really do believe it too was reduced to 1/2". This is why I plan to tap into the 3/4" and get my reading.
Thanks for your patience

To check the SFR you have to open BOTH the hot and cold faucets at the tub.

Well I'm not too bright. Did as you said and got 5s for 1 gallon, so maybe 12GPM for SFR.

This post was edited by JoyDivision on Tue, Aug 19, 14 at 16:40

12 gpm, how about that...

Based on YOUR numbers if your municipal well water supply is chlorinated (anti-bacterials added) it looks to me like a Fleck 7000 on a 2.5 cube single resin tank softener would be perfect.

Salt dose @ 6 lbs/cu ft of resin and regenerate every 7 days or so.

Make sure you get a top basket, gravel under bed, and DEMAND brand name 10% cross link resin.

Also a good ides to plumb in a three ball valve bypass in addition to the bypass included with the Fleck 7000.

You're the best. Thanks so much. I greatly appreciate it.

Don't shop for the cheapest place. find one that only uses BRAND NAME components and not cheap Chinese knock-offs.

Just for my education. Is your recommendation based on 60 Gallons/Day/Person? 2.5 cuft with salt dose @ 6 lbs/cu ft of resin should yield about 50K. So 5 people x 60 gallons/day/person x 20 gpg = 6000 grains/day. This would allow me to regen about every 7 days with 1 day reserve.

Is there a way to calculate water used for regeneration?

What happens to the reserve water if not used? Is it lost during regeneration?

Thanks.

This post was edited by JoyDivision on Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 23:20

For your education...

5 people, 60 gpd, 20 gpg hardness is 48k with one day reserve figured in. The 2.5 cu ft choice is based on that and the salt dose sweet spot..

There is no "reserve water" to be gained or lost rather reserve hardness removal capacity. It is easier on the resin to be regenerated when there is hardness removal capacity remaining than completely depleting the resin.

In the long run a single resin tank softener being less expensive, less complicated, and experiencing less regenerations on the control valve per year will recover whatever perceived loss of efficiency or waste of anything that you are concerned about..

There is more to this than a sizing calculator on a web site just as there's more to getting the correct SFR than opening ONLY one faucet at the tub..

I've given you my recommendation.

Thanks so much. Makes a lot of sense now. I had a feeling my thinking was flawed on how the reserve worked. Still looking to find a online vendor who offers the items you mentioned. Most don't comment on the top basket. You have been very helpful. Thanks again.

When you choose water softener for your family you must go with the twin sizing vs single sizing. Twin sizing system are commonly used in the commercial settings like for restaurant. Single sizing water softener is having so many disadvantages, most of the consumers are likely to use twin sizing water softener.

Here is a link that might be useful: septic tank risers

This post was edited by JeromeMoler on Thu, Aug 28, 14 at 3:22

JeromeMoler,

Twin resin tank softeners are common in commercial installations while single resin tank softeners dominate residential installations.

There is rarely a circumstance where there is not a time window in the middle of the night for a convenient regeneration of a correctly sized single resin tank softener once every six or seven days.

As previously stated, the mechanical simplicity of a single resin tank softener and half the regenerations per year far outweigh the perceived loss of the reserve hardness removal capacity.

I'm interested in you specifically stating the "so many disadvantages" that single resin tank softeners have.

And, your link to septic tank risers adds no substantive information to this thread... are you just trolling?

What settings do I need for the above recommendations
To regen at 6lbs salt per cu ft?
BLFC 0.25

C: 48(x1000)
H: 20
RS: SF
SF: 13
DO: 8
B1: 10 (min)
BD: 20 (min)
B2: 0
RR: 10 (min)
BF: 20 (min)

Thanks

What size softener did you get?

Are the settings you posted how it is set now?

Are you sure the BLFC = .25 ? What does the sticker say?

My apologies. I went per your recommendations with the 2.5cu ft or 80K softener. I plan to salt it at 6lbs/cu ft giving a capacity of 48K. The BLFC per the sticker on back of valve is 0.25. The settings I posted are what I've put in so far, but the unit has not regenerated yet. I put 3-4 40lb bags of salt in tank along with 5 gallons of water. I believe overall I need to regen with 15lbs of salt: 3lbs salt/gal water x (20min x .25 gal/min).

What were the settings the softener came with BEFORE you changed them?

I'd keep enough salt in the tank to cover the water and check it weekly. Too much salt is a lot of weight and induces bridging and mushing.

I don't have them on me. If I cant find them, should I do a hard reset?

No reset, you should have written them down BEFORE you messed with them. ALWAYS leave yourself a path to retreat.

You should NOT have messed with B1, BD, B2, or RR.
RR:

The ONLY settings you should have changed are C, H, RS, SF, DO, and BF.

Call your seller and ask them what the original settings were and post them here.

If you post your DLFC (drain line) size and the specific resin you have, the correct settings can be calculated. Your seller likely left the default settings as they were.

Yea, we know that Alice, but I'm trying to make the point that anytime one changes settings to anything they need to document where the settings were so they can always go back.

The most valuable help anyone can offer is to encourage the practice of time proven procedures so people CAN help themselves instead of repeating the same mistakes. There are some things that are irrefutable and make backup is one of them and practiced by any competent technician in any discipline... or they painfully learn to.

You take it from here and do it for them.

This post was edited by justalurker on Fri, Sep 19, 14 at 16:53

Im at work now. I wrote them down in case something like this happened, it's just a matter of finding where I put it. I will get the DLFC when I get home as well. Thank you both for your help. I should have started by asking first prior to making changes.

There is nothing marked next to dlfc on the sticker of my valve just - GPM. BLFC is .25 GPM. Injector 01. 10% crosslinked resin. The original settings were:
B1 10
BD 60
B2 5
RR 10
BF 12

Thanks again for any help.

Curious as to your thoughts on the following settings I found in an installation manual:
B1 8
BD 60
B2 6
RR 6
BF 20

Thanks

This post was edited by JoyDivision on Sat, Sep 20, 14 at 22:30

If it were my softener with your water conditions and usage these are the settings I would use...

C: 48(x1000)
H: 20
RS: SF
SF: 15 or 20 (percentage of hardness capacity removal reserved)
DO: 8
B1: 10 (min)
BD: 60 (min)
B2: 0
RR: 10 (min)
BF: 20 (min)

You could set B2=10 but @ 6 lbs/cu ft salt dose it really isn't necessary.

Others may disagree.

10% crosslink doesn't tell us what your resin is. What is the brand and name? If you know what resin you actually have, backwash, brine draw and rapid rinse can be refined. If not, we have to err on the side of caution.

Capacity, even on a Chinese resin, at a salt dosage of 6 lb/cuft would be 52, not 48. 48 is what you expect to use in a week, not your resin capacity. Set your capacity at the actual capacity and allow the softener to control itself properly. This will increase your water and salt efficiency without compromising water quality.

Actually Alice is almost correct... according to three spec sheets 2.5 cubes @ 6 lbs/cu ft = 50k hardness removal capacity.

Allowing for Chinese 10% (maybe) resin with questionable QC I chose to use C=48k. You can use C=50k if you like.

It's just quibbling over almost nothing like should you use SF=10(%) or 15(%) or 20(%). I choose settings to err on the side of not running out of soft water rather than squeeze the resin volume to save a few gallons of water or a few pounds of salt. There's nothing like running out of soft water when you've paid to have it.

JMO