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Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Posted by organic_amos (My Page) on
Sat, Aug 25, 12 at 0:40

My contractor installed a bathtub spout - showerhead kit (similar to photo below). I just tried it, and I find the water pours out of the spout too roughly (not in a smooth stream). Almost like a bathroom sink faucet that is missing the aerator. Except there is no aerator piece on this unit, I checked the instructions. It is causing water to hit the edge of the tub, and backspray. This can't be good! But can anything be done about it? Obviously, you can't just install an extender piece on the back of the spout, to make it clear the edge better.


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

It sounds like the shower pull-up knob is not all of the way down. Try to see if it re-seats properly by cycling it several times.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

It is all the way down. I'm thinking maybe its just the way this particular tub faucet is, and something I have to live with...


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I'd call the contractor (first) and/or the customer service rep for the manufacturer before deciding to live with it. Your description sounds like something isn't right.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"It is all the way down."

Down is usually for the shower, UP is for the faucet.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"Down is usually for the shower, UP is for the faucet. "

Not on ones I've seen, but YMMV.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

When the 'button' on the spout is pushed down it blocks the water flow from the spout so that it is redirected to the shower.

When the button is fully up the 'gate' in the spout is in the upwards position and the water flows from the spout.

I have NEVER seen a spout deflector that worked the other way.

I have seen some where the button has become disconnected from the gate in the spout.
Try gently pushing down on the button while turning it clockwise until it does not want to turn easily, then pull upwards.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

To the contrary, pulling the button UP (not down) = shower for most (maybe all) tub spouts.

It sounds like that tub spout is working normally.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

My Delta units require pulling up the spout button for the shower. I do not recall ever having seen a tub spout that flows the water smoothly. It seems to me to be a non-issue, to say the least.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

The shower diverter mechanism in the tub spout is one of the reason that the stream is irregular. But not the only reason.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I found that if I pull the knob up about a centimetre, but not enough to get the showerhead started, then the water flows more toward the tub, instead of some of it hitting the back of the tub. (The knob pulls up freely, then rests on this centimetre position, but only when water is flowing. If the water is off, the knob will not rest in any position). The problem with this solution is, the next time you use the shower, this is reset and you have to play with it again.

A picture is worth 1,000 words, so I took photos of the issue. First photo shows the knob in the fully DOWN position, and you can see water spraying slightly toward the back, and pooling on the edge. Second picture shows the knob slightly up a centimetre, and water is clearing the edge of the tub and no longer hitting the back. However, you can also see that in this position, instead of flowing roundly, it is bifurcating into two separated streams and does not fill the tub as fast.

Knob down: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8037/7886768626_2778865741_z.jpg

Knob Up: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8295/7886768192_3088edce3e_z.jpg

brickeyee: Turning it clockwise, it does not ever tighten up.

bus_driver: Although it's not life threatening, it's not exactly a non-issue either. It means there will always be standing water on the edge, that needs to be cleaned up as it won't drain, and water constantly hitting the tile grout is probably not desirable either. Mold may grow in that spot.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

You can replace the spout with an extra long one.

See the link as an example.

Here is a link that might be useful: extra long diverter spout


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correction

Sorry, but my link is to a 6 1/2" spout which will help little.

Apparently there are longer ones out there, so do a search.

Here is a link that might be useful: ebay


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before you buy one...

You need to find out the type of mounting it has from your contractor and buy another with the same type. Yours looks like 3/4 threaded, but it matters how far out the threading is from the wall, so be sure to ask.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I think it's a 1/2" thread (as the manual states "Install valve inside wall. Connect shower pipe and spout by using 1/2 female x 1/2 copper adaptors). There is no mention of 3/4" anywhere. The spout is 6 1/2", so it would need to be longer.

I've contacted the manufacturer and explained the situation. They responded by sending me a new spout. Yet, I doubt very much anything will change, as I don't think its defective. It's more a defect in its design, I suspect. Still, I would rather not have to change the style of spout, as it would no longer match the handle and showerhead fixtures that came with it, nor the other fixtures in my bathroom.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I'm not a plumber... don't play one on TV... and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night, but I think you're right. Not a defective spout but a defective design. The replacement will most likely replicate the problem instead of solving it. Wait till the new spout arrives and see which it does.

If the problem remains then seek a refund from the store where you got it or the manufacturer or if the plumber recommended this product from him/her. Then you get to shop for a combo that will work correctly and most likely cost more and then there's the labor to replace it. It's a lose, lose proposition so make the best of it and get what works.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I received the new replacement spout from the manufacturer today, and tried it out. Just as I believed, it does the same thing (backspray). The problem is in the design -- seems as though they did not even test these tub faucet kits to see how they work! Rather than spend $80+ for a spout that will not match the rest of the fixtures, I fixed the problem with a decidedly lo-tech, lo-cost solution: a rubber band. (see photo).

Thanks to everyone for your input.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I can't fault you for taking the easy solution and perhaps you can find a FAT o-ring that will do that job and look better than the blue rubber band, but...

RANT = ON

It sucks that this company is making money selling products that don't work and apparently doesn't care cause their customers don't take them to task and force them to correct the problem by not accepting the product as it is..

It sucks that we pay people to not do their job or do it very poorly.

It sucks that few people stand behind their work.

What apathetic consumers we have become that we accept what we're given for our hard earned money.

RANT = OFF


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Just to play devil's advocate ... is the lip of that tub wider than 'normal' tubs? Is it possible that the faucet's design is fine and it just doesn't work with your tub's style?


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

greg,

I wondered the same thing but consider that we're dealing with plumbing fixtures here. There are standards in dimensions that manufacturers should be aware of.

If the length of the spout and the width of the ledge of the tub is a consideration then the plumber should have advised the OP at time of installation and he/she is obligated to make it right..

If the length of the spout and the width of the ledge of the tub is a consideration then that should have been brought up by the manufacturer when the OP called them and they are obligated to make it right. Perhaps the chines manufacturer contracted to make the spouts used a Chinese spec tub as a model instead of the usual tub in the product's market.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Well, there are tubs that do require longer than normal spouts (although I have no idea if the Maax tub shown is one of them). The Kohler bellwether, for example, was notorious for this (really fat front wall) until the recent redesign. Lots of threads about it in the baths forum.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I do admit that I have never previously seen a tub spout with such a turbulent flow. What is pictured would be an issue for me, too.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I am beginning to wonder about the tilework. I hope the tiles goes OVER the tub flange, and that they are not meeting edge-to-edge as it sort of appears. That could be the big mistake but I hope I'm wrong.


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ugh

Please post some pics of the rest of the tub, especially the front sides. It will be helpful to see if that really is the tub flange. That would be huge error and would require the tilework and wall prep to be redone.

Also, what's the corner to corner measurement of the long wall? If this is a standard 5' tub, and the measurement is somewhere around 59 3/4 inches (and not much less), you have a problem.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

justalurker: I thought of using multiple tiny o-rings but... I don't know how to take the knob off in order to fit them on. At least not without breaking the plastic piece it is attached to. The company (Belanger) actually has a good reputation, is sold at high end bathroom stores, and is often the choice of plumbers. This tub kit was all metal, where many better known manufacturers, ie. Moen, Delta, Pfister, featured plastic spouts or other plastic pieces. They stand behind the product too, in the sense that they sent me a new spout at their expense via courier, in no time flat. And maybe this thing is not a problem for many, because they may have tubs with thinner edges, where the backspray isn't an issue. Its even possible it's not an issue with all their spouts, and only some. These things are made in China after all, which is not known for its quality control.

greg2010: "is the lip of that tub wider than 'normal' tubs? Is it possible that the faucet's design is fine and it just doesn't work with your tub's style?"

This is what I was saying might be possible. It is a rectangular acrylic tub. The ledge you see is 4". Keep in mind, if the stream was shooting straight down, it'd be less of a problem and I don't think I would need longer than 6.5" spout. But (unmodified), part of it is veering toward the back, and pooling water on the ledge.

justalurker: "If the length of the spout and the width of the ledge of the tub is a consideration then the plumber should have advised the OP at time of installation and he/she is obligated to make it right."

I am the one who chose this tub kit, and told the contractor to get it. The plumber is a separate guy hired by the contractor. He has no idea what tub or faucet was purchased in advance, he's just hired to do the job of putting it together. I don't know any contractors that would even think about it, since it is not a common issue. Maybe the manufacturer could have asked me about the width of my tub ledge... but they're not plumbers answering those phones, either. They're just there to try to determine if its a defect, under warranty, and what my mailing address is. I tried to tell the rep that I did not think it was a defect. Since she can't guess what is causing it, all she could suggest was send out a new one. I didn't argue too much about it, since I figured it can't hurt to try.

homebound: "I am beginning to wonder about the tilework."

The tiles do go OVER the tub flange a bit, and then it is caulked. They are resting on hardi-backer (which I specified). I have lots of issues with this tub installation (since I learned the contractors only put two shims underneath the apron, and nothing else). But tile work isn't one of them! Matter of fact, they're coming over today to try to fix parts of the installation after the fact...

I've posted pics of the back of the tile backer board, showing where it meets up with the lip of the tub (flange), and the front corner of the tub, showing the lip, caulking, tile. The tub is a 60" tub, the length from inside corner to inside corner is about 59 1/4" (but it would be longer if you measure it from outside edge to outside edge. The front ledge (drain side) is 4", while the opposite side ledge is 2".

Here is a link that might be useful: Back of tiled wall where meets tub flange


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"I am the one who chose this tub kit, and told the contractor to get it. The plumber is a separate guy hired by the contractor. He has no idea what tub or faucet was purchased in advance, he's just hired to do the job of putting it together"

This is seeming more and more like one of those projects where the only person who had a picture in their mind of how the job would (should) end up is the one with the least technical knowledge of the component interface and skills necessary to make the job come out right.

In other words the OP is where this problem began and ended.

Once the OP selected the spout and stuff it should have been handed to the plumber BEFORE the tub was set and the tile work done. A quick mock up would have shown the spout was too short for that tub and wall placement. If sufficient adjustment couldn't be made by moving the fixture end wall in towards the tub to accommodate the short spout that would have been the time to stop and make the necessary changes in hardware choice. If the plumber and contractor didn't catch that problem and said "all is well, let's continue" then the fault is with the plumber and/or contractor. Plumbing is a trade where constant and sometimes complicated adjustments and compromises are made many times every day. For the plumber to blindly accept that a spout he has never used will be positioned correctly on a tub he's never seen screams out his indifference to the quality of his work or his incompetence. Either the plumber or the contractor who chose the plumber should have known what they were doing. You pay someone to do a job because they will do it better than you... otherwise you can just do it wrong yourself for no money.

JMO


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

4" seems a VERY wide ledge at the foot end of the tub. The ledges at the foot end of the tubs in my house measure 2.5 inches and that would be perfect for your spout.

I'll leave it to the plumbers on the forum to comment on whether a 4" ledge is common or unusual or highly unusual.

On the spout stem o-ring... find a VERY fat o-ring and cut a piece out to form an o-ring that will fit the spout stem. A drop of super glue with make you an o-ring again. You might need two home made o-rings to take up that space.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"Once the OP selected the spout and stuff it should have been handed to the plumber BEFORE the tub was set and the tile work done."

The plumber did not install the hardware, nor was he around when it was. That was left to the contractor's labourers to do.

"In other words the OP is where this problem began and ended."

Or in other words, you truly have no idea what you're talking about, internet armchair expert that you are. "Least technical knowledge of the component interface"? "Skills necessary to make the job turn out right"? You're saying I don't know how to measure the width of a tub ledge, really? I already proved otherwise by giving it. It just never occurred to me it would be necessary. Just like it didn't occur to the plumber, the contractor, the agent that answered the manufacturer's phone, and just like it would never have occurred to YOU. I solved the problem with a two cent elastic. You on the other hand would have been wondering what on earth to do. You'd be out buying a new tub or spout right about now, and talking about suing your plumber.

"Quick mock-up...", what a joke! The spout is NOT too short for the tub, it is a *standard* 6.5" spout. I already proved that much by showing a photo where it flows perfectly and does not hit the back edge. You have proven you can't even begin to understand the problem that I have elaborated on. So don't pretend you have all the answers, armchair expert.

" otherwise you can just do it wrong yourself for no money."

Apart from the plumbing, I could have done the entire renovation, including the botched tub installation, myself. After a bit of research, I can now say I know more about my acrylic tub installation than they do. So I could have done a much better job than the contractors we hired. Not because I'm so competent or they're so incompetent. But because they are lazy and did not want to read the manual and do a proper job. And I could have done some things better than the plumber, who was even less inclined to do a good job, because he started late and wanted to get home.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"I solved the problem with a two cent elastic"

You treated the symptom and did not cure the disease.

It does seem that without the rubber band the spout should flow more gracefully than your pictures indicate that it does so this "internet armchair expert" sees a defect in the spout design regardless of tub dimension or placement.

In posing this question to a plumber neighbor of mine who is VERY experienced replacing tubs he says that plumbers should be aware that different tubs have different ledge dimensions and that fact dictated that the tubs were set differently to make the spouts and valves come out right.

If there's no need for long and shorter spouts yet they exist... I wonder why?

I didn't say you couldn't or wouldn't do a better job than your plumber and/or contractor I said you pay them to do the job better than you... which you have proved they didn't.

This "internet armchair expert" has tubs that are set correctly and didn't pay for the privilege of winding a $.02 rubber band around the expensive spout stem.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"Once the OP selected the spout and stuff it should have been handed to the plumber BEFORE the tub was set and the tile work done."

The plumber did not install the hardware, nor was he around when it was. That was left to the contractor's labourers to do.

"In other words the OP is where this problem began and ended."

Or in other words, you truly have no idea what you're talking about, internet armchair expert that you are. "Least technical knowledge of the component interface"? "Skills necessary to make the job turn out right"? You're saying I don't know how to measure the width of a tub ledge, really? I already proved otherwise by giving it. It just never occurred to me it would be necessary. Just like it didn't occur to the plumber, the contractor, the agent that answered the manufacturer's phone, and just like it would never have occurred to YOU. I solved the problem with a two cent elastic. You on the other hand would have been wondering what on earth to do. You'd be out buying a new tub or spout right about now, and talking about suing your plumber.

"Quick mock-up...", what a joke! The spout is NOT too short for the tub, it is a *standard* 6.5" spout. I already proved that much by showing a photo where it flows perfectly and does not hit the back edge. You have proven you can't even begin to understand the problem that I have elaborated on. So don't pretend you have all the answers, armchair expert.

" otherwise you can just do it wrong yourself for no money."

Apart from the plumbing, I could have done the entire renovation, including the botched tub installation, myself. After a bit of research, I can now say I know more about my acrylic tub installation than they do. So I could have done a much better job than the contractors we hired. Not because I'm so competent or they're so incompetent. But because they are lazy and did not want to read the manual and do a proper job. And I could have done some things better than the plumber, who was even less inclined to do a good job, because he started late and wanted to get home.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"I solved the problem with a two cent elastic"

You treated the symptom and did not cure the disease.

It does seem that without the rubber band the spout should flow more gracefully than your pictures indicate that it does so this "internet armchair expert" sees a defect in the spout design regardless of tub dimension or placement.

In posing this question to a plumber neighbor of mine who is VERY experienced replacing tubs he says that plumbers should be aware that different tubs have different ledge dimensions and that fact dictated that the tubs were set differently to make the spouts and valves come out right.

If there's no need for long and shorter spouts yet they exist... I wonder why?

I didn't say you couldn't or wouldn't do a better job than your plumber and/or contractor I said you pay them to do the job better than you... which you have proved they didn't.

This "internet armchair expert" has tubs that are set correctly and didn't pay BIG BUCKS for the privilege of winding a $.02 rubber band around the expensive spout stem.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

justalurker:

"You treated the symptom and did not cure the disease."

I don't even know that means. If by that you mean get Belanger to redesign their spouts, that's true. I did not succeed in convincing them they must redesign their products based on my experience with two samples. But then, I don't care to. I agree that there appears to be a problem with the design. I solved that problem simply without throwing a lot of money at it, and that's all I set out to do. That's at least more than you were able to do or suggest. I know very well that I can go out and spend a lot of money to fix the problem by buying another model. But I happen to be happy with this model and like its styling, so I don't see the need to do that. In any case, I certainly wouldn't buy a spout that does not even match the styling of the handle, the shower hardware, or any of the other fixtures in my bathroom. I'm sure in no time, I'll get used to the elastic band and not even notice its there. I wont be gluing o-rings with superglue any time soon, because I think that's a bad idea. I am quite sure the glue wont hold the o-ring together for long. I'd rather just get a black rubber band, or run a dab of silicone. Maybe I'll see if the band will fit on the other end of the stem, so it can,t be seen.

"If there's no need for long and shorter spouts yet they exist... I wonder why?"

I didn't say there was "no need for longer or shorter spouts". You simply invented that claim out of thin air. I said there was no need for it in MY case. And I even proved that to you by posting a picture of water flowing from my spout while clearing the edge of the tub, after I installed the rubberband fix. A fact that you conveniently ignore, because it doesn't make your case.

"I didn't say you couldn't or wouldn't do a better job than your plumber and/or contractor "

You said to your friends here that I am the beginning and ending of the fault for this problem. That's what got me started. My actual experience tells me its the manufacturer that is the beginning and end of the problem, and that its all too easy for an armchair critic to point fingers and assign blame at this person or that, but real life doesn't work that way. I've never met the perfect plumber and perfect contractor and perfect client you describe, in all of my days of dealing with them. Since it obviously isn't a major problem in plumbing, its the kind of thing you have to have firsthand experience with to even think it will be a problem. NOBODY can prepare for every situation in life as you think, and it does NOT make them incompetent if they don't, as you imply.

" I said you pay them to do the job better than you... which you have proved they didn't."

That I don't discount. I said as much. But note, that has ZIP ALL to do with my spout problem. I did not even bother to mention the problem to the contractor, because I realize it's not his - it's the manufacturer's fault. And if you're going to go saying he should have checked to see if the spout clears once again, I will stop you now, and remind you again that you had misread the problem (even AFTER I posted a pic proving otherwise), and that it is *not* really a spout length problem.

"This "internet armchair expert" has tubs that are set correctly and didn't pay BIG BUCKS for the privilege of winding a $.02 rubber band around the expensive spout stem."

There you go again playing "internet expert", and pretending to be Kreskin. I paid a whopping $79 dollars for my tub kit - that includes spout, handle, trim, valve, showerhead, shower arm and YES, the "expensive spout stem". They even threw in a box and instructions for that price. Maybe $79 is BIG BUCKS to you. But to me, in a renovation that cost $5,500, it isn't. The use of the elastic or the fact that the spout isn't perfect in this case, isn't as big an issue to me either, as it appears to be to you. Strange, that...

Thanks for your interest and input, anyway.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

For some do-it-yourself is the same as screw-it-yourself. Seems that it's just a matter of how much less some are wiling to accept for their money... and that perpetuates the kind of top quality work you got in this instance.

Don't need to be Kreskin to walk into your bathroom and admire the $5500 remodel with the $.02 rubber band on the tub spout. If it's acceptable to you that's all that matters.

I must remember to never argue with a fool, they drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.

Sorry I failed you so miserably... that was not my intent.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

I THANK you for your input and interest, despite it being of no use to me, and your response is to call me a "fool"? On top of which, to call me a "fool", you use a trite, banal line you've been spoon fed from the signatures of a million forum members, showing you don't even have the intelligence to come up with an original thought with which to insult me. You are the dictionary definition of "fool", so you have no business lobbing that accusation at me. Especially when you got the problem wrong, and you got the solution wrong, even after I posted photos showing you what the problem was. I solved the problem with a 2 cent solution, and it appears that is what is leaving you with sour grapes and prompting you to insult me. If you have experience with bathtubs and you're no better than this, then you should probably not admit you have experience with bathtubs. I don't know what makes you say a rubber band somehow destroys a $5500 remodel. Oh yeah, your foolishness.

There's no need to display it any further. The problem is solved, so please let this thread die.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

It is difficult to tell from your pictures, so I could be incorrect about this. It appears your backer board butts up to the tub flange, rather than overlapping it as it should. You should have a vapor barrier, then backer board. The backer board should overlap the tub flange and stop about 1/8" above the tub deck. Then tile. Installed correctly, you should not see the tub flange. Also, the faucet would then jut out further over the tub (although with with rough flow from the fauce, I don't know if that would have prevented the problem you were seeing).

If what I see in your pics is correct, you may want to call you tile guy back before you develop mold issues in the wall.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Agreed. The backerboard appears to butt the flange...and maybe the tile also. The inside corner measurement of 59 1/4" seems to confirm that. Ugh.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Just for a visual, I think this is what alice and homebound are describing as the correct installation.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

"4" seems a VERY wide ledge at the foot end of the tub. The ledges at the foot end of the tubs in my house measure 2.5 inches and that would be perfect for your spout.

I'll leave it to the plumbers on the forum to comment on whether a 4" ledge is common or unusual or highly unusual"

"In posing this question to a plumber neighbor of mine who is VERY experienced replacing tubs he says that plumbers should be aware that different tubs have different ledge dimensions and that fact dictated that the tubs were set differently to make the spouts and valves come out right"

You can lead someone to water but you can't make them THINK


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Great illustration greg_2010! Precisely what I was trying to describe - I picture's worth 1000 words.


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RE: Water pouring roughly out of tub spout?

Looking at your pic of the bottom of your tiles--your contractor botched that part of the job! The tiles (and the backerboard) should come all the way down to the horizontal surface of the tub. Again, I'm not sure that would change THAT much about your installation--though it might change it just the 1/4" necessary, if the backerboard truly does not sit in FRONT of the vertical part of the flange.

So you SHOULD have a problem with the tile work, even if the tiles are straight and the grout looks good. The tiles were placed in the wrong place. Your tiler should have been saying, "Hey, why isn't the backerboard coming all the way down past the flange to be pretty much flush with the horizontal top of the tub?"

Also, just to point out how much they let you down: "too lazy to read a manual" *IS* "incompetent." And "wanted to go home" *is* "incompetent."
. . . So I could have done a much better job than the contractors we hired. Not because I'm so competent or they're so incompetent. But because they are lazy and did not want to read the manual and do a proper job. And I could have done some things better than the plumber, who was even less inclined to do a good job, because he started late and wanted to get home.

I'm glad your rubber band is providing immediate assistance, but you seriously need to make these contractors readdress that--it's not correct. It looks funny, and having the backerboard in the right place might be just enough width to bring that spout back out a little bit.

In the meantime, if you want to get away from the blue (because part of the problem *is* the spout's design, and you'll have the splattering no matter what gets done to the tile job), you might consider finding a plastic tube (even a clear drinking straw) that you can cut to the right height, then slit and slip around the stem. It won't build up as much soap scum, will be easier to clean, and won't be as noticeable.


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