Return to the Plumbing Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Posted by TJT123 (My Page) on
Tue, Jul 10, 12 at 22:53

I am in the process of ordering a Fleck water softener. After deciding that I needed a 7000 model because my pipes are 1 1/4 inch, the sales people at two separate online locations told me to avoid the 7000 model. Apparently, there have been " issues" with the 7000. They both told me to get the 5600 instead, but I am not sure how that will work with my pipes. Again, they are 1 1/4 inch. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge with the 7000 and why I should choose one over the other? Thanks


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

During my research, I came across on your same issue. I've just made similar question with my house being 1.5" pipe. During my research, I've got two types of feedbacks regarding the 7000sxt. One dealer said to avoid it at all cost as it had lot of problems. Another dealer highly recommend it as it has had problems over a year ago, there has been much problems since then. This particular dealer said they sell lot of 7000sxt. I've asked this dealer what changed and they mentioned that the manufacturing production moved from Mexico to US which resolved the issue. I'm not sure if this is true or not but someone else can possibly chime in to confirm. Also the fact that dealer is recommending 7000sxt now does say something (I don't think any dealer want to deal with warranty/replacement issues).


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

If you have 1.25" pipe then a 7000SXT is what you need and not a 5600.

The 5600 is also limited to a max 12" resin tank diameter.

The 7000 has a 5 year warranty and Fleck ain't going anywhere.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I have a 7000se (40,000 grain) that is just under 5 years old and it has stopped working for about the last year. I reported it to the dealer I purchased it from (Discountwatersofteners) and he said it was most likely due to a serviceable item such as the spacers. Here is his response:
"On private well water supplies the spacers allow the water to travel in different directions within the control valve. If this stops then there likely is build up within the spacers that impedes the flow of the water. The seals and spacers are designed to be replaced due to this. Have the seals and spacer checked/replaced by an experienced local water treatment professional. "

Given that troublesome history of the Fleck 7000's, I'm considering just getting a 2510sxt intead since it has similar flow rates and not waste the money on a service call. Are the spacers a difficult thing to check? DWS would not go through troubleshooting anything with me or giving me advice on how to check the spacers myself. BTW, I installed the 7000se system along with all the plumbing in my house.

Thanks,


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

asanders,

Rather than hijack a thread you should start an new thread so your question gets the attention you'd like.

To answer your question...

Routine maintenance items and/or procedures are not covered under warranty.

Since you didn't post your water conditions it's hard to tell if 5 years is too soon or about right for seal-spacer replacement.

We also don't know if your softener is correctly sized and correctly set up for your water conditions and water usage.

There is no "troublesome history of the Fleck 7000s". When one considers the # of 7000s in the field and the small # of complaints it's really a pretty trouble free valve. Whatever problems there have been Fleck has addressed and corrected.

The 7000 and 2510 both use seals and spacers.

If you don't have a service manual for your 7000SE you can get it here... http://www.pentairwatertreatment.com/en-us/TechSupport/Technical+Documents.htm


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Thanks. I guess I should have started my own thread for more visibility. Anyway, my hardness is 11 and I have had 4 people living in the house. One of the showers has 3 body sprays that can run at the same time as the shower head so I need to make sure the water flow is supports when it is used. We don't actually use the body sprays much, but the water flow easily supported it. The iron is negligible. I see where the spacers are based on the info in the link you provided. I assume it isn't that difficult to turn on the bypass, relieve the pressure somehow, and remove them to check them out. From the picture, it looks like I may not even have to remove the 7000 from the tank.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Replacing the seals and spacers may be just treating the symptom and not curing the disease. If that satisfies you then go to it.

I'd rather you post details of your water conditions cause "iron is negligible" doesn't really help.

So...
well water or water system
hardness is 11 gpg
PH is ?
iron is ?
manganese is ?
TDS is ?
# of people is 4
# of bathrooms is ?
SFR is ?

What is the resin volume of your current softener... 1.5 cu ft?


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Here is what I have:
well water
hardness is 11 gpg (Used TDS EZ with 186/17.1)
PH: It looks like it is between 7.6 and 8.0
iron is .1 ppm
manganese is ? (I don't have anything to measure this)
TDS is (using TDS EZ 186
# of people is 4
# of bathrooms is 4.5
SFR?
1.25 cubic feet of resin
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Hardness is not calculated from TDS they are two different measurements.

When was the last time you had a comprehensive water test?

SFR = Using the bathtub as the measuring point, open BOTH the hot and cold water faucets completely open.

Place either a 1 or 5 gallon container under the faucet and measure the amount of time it takes to fill the container in seconds.

If I can't get accurate #s regarding your water then I can't help you.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I guess I have never had a comprehensive water test before. I just purchased the TDS EZ and the Watersafe well-water test kit. I have not completed all the tests that came with the watersafe test kit. There are 10 things it checks.
It took about 23-24 seconds to fill a gallon jug, but not all of the water was going into the jug and there weren't separate valves for hot and cold. It took about 13.5 seconds to fill it from the jacuzzi tub and just a little water was not making it into the jug. It was clearly a bigger/fuller stream at the jacuzzi though.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Living on a well is more complicated than living on a water system because YOU have the responsibility of making the water nice and SAFE.

You should get a comprehensive test done by a certified lab and also be checking nitrates and bacteria annually.

13.5 sec to fill a gallon jug is about 4.5 gpm SFR... not really a lot.

Your TDS meter measures TDS... total dissolved solids and that is NOT hardness.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Using the hardness test strip, I come up with what looks to be around 150+ ppm hardness. I'd have to guess at the exact amount as I think it was more than 150 and less than the next color, but closer to the 150 range. I'd guess it to be 170-180 though. The test kit I have tests nitrate, nitrite, bacteria, copper, lead, etc, but not manganese. Does that have a big impact on the size of the system used? The 40,000 grain system with 1.25 cu/ft resin seemed to do the trick. The water was noticeably better and didn't leave any stains. It also supported the amount of flow I needed. One company I spoke with recommended a minimum of 48,000 grain 1.5 cu/ft resin system due to the shower with multiple sprayers. Given that system I had supported it, I don't think I would need a larger system. I was told that in a correctly sized system, the resin should last at least 15 to 20 years. You seem to be more knowledgeable or at least more forthcoming with the knowledge that most dealers I've spoken with, so I'll take your word that the 7000 should be trouble free and take a look at the spacers. Hopefully that won't be too difficult. I'll take a stab at it probably Sunday. Any words of wisdom on checking the spacers? BTW, the motor goes through the cycles and the piston goes in and out, but you don't hear any of the sounds associated with the cycles.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

One doesn't disassemble a control valve to check the spacers and seals. If you take it apart replace the seals and spacers so having the parts would be an advantage.

Before you dive in... exactly what do you mean by "has stopped working for about a year"?

What stopped working? Is the softener regenerating? Does it step through the regeneration cycles? Is it counting down gallons?


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I am no longer getting softened water and no salt is being used. The gallons are counting down and it goes through the regeneration cycles and resets the counter, but nothing is actually happening. While manually stepping through the cycles, the motor and gear are turning and the piston is going in and out what looks to be the correct amount, but you don't hear the water flowing sounds like before. No water is being drawn or refilled in the brine tank or discharged out the drain line.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Now that helps a lot...

Check the softener drain line for obstruction.

Check the injector, BLFC, and brine line for air leaks or blockage.

Check the brine pickup at the bottom of the float assembly in the brine well of the brine tank for blockage.

If all is well then it's the spacer-seals or something in the control is blocked.

If it's been that way for a year the resin might be fouled. At least the resin needs to be goosed back to as full a hardness removal capacity as possible. I'll tell you how to do that when we get it fixed.

BTW, your 1.25 cu ft softener is small for your (vague) water conditions and usage and is wasting water and salt especially with .1 ppm iron. You should be using Iron Out or a similar product.

See now why a new thread is the way to go so others can find this info rather than having it lost hooked on to another thread?


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Thank you. I won't have a chance to look at until Sunday evening at the earliest. I check what you suggested and get back.
I agree. I should have started a new thread.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I finally got a chance to look at it today and I found the problem. It was the drain line. The brine lines and brine pickup aren't clogged. After removing the drain line and reattaching it, I started the cycles and it sounds like it is back to normal. It is on stage 2 right now as we speak. The water coming out is quite brownish. I guess we need to take care of the resin now.

Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

It made it through all the stages and everything sounded normal, but the water is coming out orangish brown now. I've got it on bypass now so the wife will use the water, but I plan on running it through another cycle to see if that helps.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

OK, so the water is being put in the brine tank to make brine and being sucked out during regeneration... RIGHT?

If YES, then here's what you do...

Add 4 gallons of water to your brine tank and wait two hours for the salt to dissolve and start a manual regeneration.

When that regeneration is finished add 4 gallons of water to your brine tank and wait two hours for the salt to dissolve and start a manual regeneration with no water use during that two hours.

When that regeneration is finished the resin will have as much capacity back as its condition will allow.

Then get some Iron Out, Super Iron Out, Rust Pro etc. and use 1/4 cup dissolved into a gallon or two of warm water and pour it into the 4" round tube in the brine tank where the float is and then flush that with a quart of clear water. Wait two hours and then do a manual regeneration.

If that Iron out exercise resolves the problem then do it every 2-4 weeks.

If not then the resin is iron fouled and it's time to look at new resin or a new softener.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

It made it through all the stages and everything sounded normal, but the water is coming out orangish brown now. I've got it on bypass now so the wife will use the water, but I plan on running it through another cycle to see if that helps.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

You can do the Iron Out twice if the water is still brown or orange after the first Iron Out.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

It is VERY important that you did the first two regenerations back to back waiting two hours for the salt to dissolve after adding the 4 gallons of water and that you didn't use water during that wait time.

If you didn't then you get to do it all over again from the beginning.

Then the Iron Out procedure.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Thanks. I'm not sure why I didn't see your response at 21:34. The water is going in and out of the brine tank during regeneration. I do what you recommend. I'll turn on the bypass and add 4 gallons of water to the brine tank. Wait 2 hours, turn off bypass and initiate manual regeneration. I'll turn on bypass and repeat. Then I'll turn do the iron out stuff. I'll get back afterwards.
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I found some super iron out and started to follow your instructions, but the brine tanks is already within 4-6" from the overflow. I'll just initiate another regeneration cycle. Should the brine tank be full after the regeneration cycle? Could that be my problem?
Thanks.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

As we get farther and farther along trying to help you, you keep injecting more and new information and that makes this really hard and gets my fingers hurting from all this extra typing.

Now STOP and don't do anything.

Question #1... you said the brine tank is being emtptied during regeneration and that water is being added back into the brine tank... correct?

Question #2... when the softener has stopped regenerating and is in service how much water is in the brine tank?

Question #3... have you done the two regenerations in sequence (waiting the 2 hours for salt to dissolve) without any water use in between?

Answer those three questions...


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Here are the answers:
1) Yes. The brine tank is being emptied during regeneration and water is being added back into the brine tank.
2) The brine tank is full (4-6" from the overflow) when the regeneration is complete and it is back in service.
3) So far, one regeneration cycle has completed. Upon completion of the first regeneration cycle, the water through the faucet was orange/brown. It got better but wasn't switching to clear so I put it back in bypass mode so no water was coming through the softener. After reading the manual again, I had opened the wrong valve first (outlet) on the bypass. The manual states "When returning to service, put the inlet into service before the outlet." I'm not sure if that matters, but I'm just trying to give you as much information as possible. I'd say we ran about 15-20 gallons before switching it to bypass mode.

It is currently in the middle of the 2nd regeneration. It is in the middle of the 2nd cycle which is the brine draw cycle and is 60 minutes. There is about 20 minutes left in the cycle and the brine tanks has about 2 or so inches of water left in it. When this regeneration cycle is done, the system will have undergone two renegeration cycles with about 15-50 gallons of water run through it.

Thanks. Holding tight now.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

I did not say anything about touching the bypass.

The two regens have to be done back to back with no water use. so you're back to square one once we figure out the water in the brine tank situation.

Sounds like you're getting too much water back in the brine tank and that raises questions...

1. what size is your brine tank?

2. If the water is 4-6" below the overflow in the brine tank how are you adding 4 additional gallons to the brine tank?

3. do you know what the BF setting is in the 7000 programming?


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Here are the answers:
1) Yes. The brine tank is being emptied during regeneration and water is being added back into the brine tank.
2) The brine tank is full (4-6" from the overflow) when the regeneration is complete and it is back in service.
3) So far, one regeneration cycle has completed. Upon completion of the first regeneration cycle, the water through the faucet was orange/brown. It got better but wasn't switching to clear so I put it back in bypass mode so no water was coming through the softener. After reading the manual again, I had opened the wrong valve first (outlet) on the bypass. The manual states "When returning to service, put the inlet into service before the outlet." I'm not sure if that matters, but I'm just trying to give you as much information as possible. I'd say we ran about 15-20 gallons before switching it to bypass mode.

It is currently in the middle of the 2nd regeneration. It is in the middle of the 2nd cycle which is the brine draw cycle and is 60 minutes. There is about 20 minutes left in the cycle and the brine tanks has about 2 or so inches of water left in it. When this regeneration cycle is done, the system will have undergone two renegeration cycles with about 15-50 gallons of water run through it.

Thanks. Holding tight now.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Your last post was just a duplicate of the post before it so I'll repeat myself...

I did not say anything about touching the bypass.

The two regens have to be done back to back with no water use. so you're back to square one once we figure out the water in the brine tank situation.

Sounds like you're getting too much water back in the brine tank and that raises questions...

1. what size is your brine tank?

2. If the water is 4-6" below the overflow in the brine tank how are you adding 4 additional gallons to the brine tank?

3. do you know what the BF setting is in the 7000 programming?.


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

Sorry for the double post. I'm not really sure what happenend. Maybe when I refreshed the screen?? Anyway, I was turning the bypass on so the wife can use the water and not complain. We have guests, so I'll need to coordinate the two hour waiting periods which may be difficult. Would it be better at this point to buy more resin? To answer your questions:
1) I'm not sure what size the brine tank is. It looks like a square trash can and is what came with a 40,000 grain system from discountwatersofteners.com. I think I may need to slide the rubber grommet down a little on the float assembly in the brine tube so it won't fill up so much on during the refill cycle.
2) I did not add water to the brine tank prior to regeneration.
3) My programming is as follows:
1-10-Backwash
2-60-Brine Draw
3-5-2nd Backwash
4-10-Rapid Rinse
5-12-Refill

Thanks


 o
RE: fleck 7000sxt vs: fleck 5600sxt

"I'm not sure what size the brine tank is. It looks like a square trash can and is what came with a 40,000 grain system from discountwatersofteners.com."

Tape measure length, width, and height.

"I did not add water to the brine tank prior to regeneration"

In order to get the resin back to max removal capacity regenerating at the max salt dose HAS TO BE DONE and that's why I gave you step by step instruction on what to do.

"I think I may need to slide the rubber grommet down a little on the float assembly in the brine tube so it won't fill up so much on during the refill cycle"

NO, the float is a safety overflow mechanism and is NOT used to determine the amount of water in the brine tank.

The amount of water in the brine tank is managed by the 7000 and that determines the salt dose.

New resin may only treat the symptom and may not cure the disease.

If you're not going to do what I tell you then trying to help you is a waste of my time.

My best advice to you is to find a local water treatment pro who services Fleck and get them out to your house.

Good luck and let us know how it works out.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Plumbing Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here