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toilet flapper closes too fast

Posted by fritzgarden (My Page) on
Thu, May 27, 10 at 18:55

a 5 y.o. AS 4396 w/Fluidmaster guts.
The flapper is closing too fast, and I think, always has.
There is a captured donut of polyfoam (of some kind) right on top of the flapper.
The chain is as tight as I can make it, less then a 1/4" before action.
The take fills to less than 1/2" below the overflow.

Could the donut be water logged, or should I try to add another?


Follow-Up Postings:

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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Try moving the foam float lower on the chain, or just replace the flapper.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Fluidmasters cost, what....ten/fifteen bucks? Replace the whole thing and be done with it.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

the foam float is as low as it can go.
maybe as asolo said


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Why replace the entire flush valve? All you need is a new flapper, not an extra project involving removal of the tank.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

What will a new flapper do for me? This one is clean doesn't look worn, fits tight, goes up and down easily.
It seems that it should stay open longer for a full flush, but I don't see what a new one would do in that light.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

"What will a new flapper do for me?"

It will make your toilet work, that's what. You asked for advise on how to fix it, and you received it. Spend $4 and replace it.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

BTW, all this is assuming the water level in the tank is not too low. When full, it should be about 1" or so below the top of the overflow tube.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

water level is 1/2" below overflow.

On 2nd look, I'm not sure if the flapper closes too soon or the tank isn't emptying fast enough. Seems when I watch the job, it varies between the two choices.
It seems to lack enough suck.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

let me add that the other toilet on the first floor has never had this problem. It kicks butt
It is a slightly newer Kohler than the AS upstairs.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Ok, then. If the tank is emptying too slowly, it's one of two things (one easy, the other more of a pain): A) the hole under the rim are obstructed, so you pole them open with a piece of a coathanger (the holes go through the rim at a sideways angle). That's the easy one. B) Alternatively, something is caught at the base of the toilet. You can try a closet auger to hopefully break it up, but if it's a piece of plastic (eg. toy, razor, bottle cap, plastic "thingy", etc.) you have to remove the toilet and remove it.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

would I be able to see deposits or whatever built up on the rim holes or should I just go ahead a give a poke. They look quite clean and our water is low in minerals.
I have a sneaking suspicion I'm gonna be re-waxing the beast


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Does the water go all the way down when the flapper is open during the flush cycle? The flapper is held open by an air bubble that is inside the flapper. Suction holds it closed. Without the air bubble, the flapper will close early or will not open completely.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

no, the water gets about 1 to 2 " above the floor and it seems to vary.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

With the water turned off try a new flapper and a bottle of lime away slightly diluted poured directly into the tank outlet. Let it sit overnight. Try the simple things first.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

new flapper (Home Depot, not exact replacement as it's some AS custom thing)
Lime Away overnight. No change.
New flapper has one hole on the bottom.
The OEM flapper has a hole on the bottom and in the front and is a bigger bell.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

the gang at AS will send me the entire guts of the toilet when in stock in a few weeks.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

It's time. Good on ya.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

Since 1992, toilets have used 1.6 gallon or less by law.
The tanks will hold up to 3 gallons.
Do the math. A tank does not empty during the flush cycle.

If you want a 3.5 gallon toilet, you will have to look in a second hand store.

Toilets since 1992 have had quick closing flappers. If you try to flush an entire tank in the new bowls, and it's plugged even a little bit, you can overflow the bowl onto the floor.

The toilet you are trying to "improve" was poor when it was new. You can't make a silk purse out of that dog you bought. Check the Map rating.
The 2" flush valve "Aquaforce" from A/S was very low end.
I wouldn't have one in my home.
You would be better off with the Cadet 3 if you want something from American Standard. Just remember to inspect the porcelain before bringing it home.
Terry Love


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

inspect the porcelain? for what?
Perhaps the porcelain on this one was bad from the start ..... but in what way?
I wouldn't have anything AS in my house, but sometimes it ain't my choice.
nudge, nudge, wink, wink


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

I wasn't getting good flush action and discovered the water jet hole was completely clogged shut with lime/calcium deposits. After working on it a good bit with a long brass brush, I got it all open and it now flushes much better.

If the flapper is closing too soon, might it be that there is too much 'play' in the chain?

Sue

Here is a link that might be useful: Cutaway of toilet


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

the chain is quite tight.
I ran some lime away thru it last week and let it sit for a day as suggested above.
No change. AS sent me a flapper over flow pipe assembly. I'll see what that gets me.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

I solved this issue with a fishing line float. Using a medium sized float you can adjust the closing rate of the flapper by positioning it's location on the flapper chain. The higher up the quicker the flapper closes / the lower on the chain the longer the flapper stays open. Also make sure that there is not to much extra slack on the flapper chain.

Here is a link that might be useful: Example of fishing line float or bobber


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

I'm no expert, but here's what I've read:

The flappers have a hole in the bottom. This is so they can trap a bubble of air when you flush. This bubble of air helps the flapper float while the eater drains. If it is closing too soon, then the flapper is not trapping air properly.

Most would suggest replacing the flapper.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

As mentioned he system is designed to save water. Normal flush is half tank. If you want a full flush hold the handle down.. removing the foam float will probably allow it to give a full flush every time. I noticed this when I bought a new toilet last year. Or replace the flapper valve without a float.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

I had the same problem and I believe you are correct that the float is water logged. I got tired of buying a new flapper ever couple of years so here is what I did: I got a piece of Styrofoam about 1 1/2" square and about 3/4" thick. I cut a slit about half way through it a fit it under the existing float. I then hot glued the slit closed. It seems to work. Give it a try and let me know what you think.


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RE: toilet flapper closes too fast

So, I've a similar issue. I did not have a float so I went and bought a new flapper yesterday with the float. Now, instead of shutting really quickly, the new flapper slams shut. I've moved the float every which way and can see no difference.

I did adjust the water level and that's helped a titch, but you still need to really hold down the handle. Any ideas why float wouldn't float? I mean, it is buoyant, just seems chain is too heavy.


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