All your suspeions and feelings are completly valid and the plumbers lied at least 3 times regardless what is or is not wrong with the toilet. There might be a hairline crack but odds are about a thousand to one that's not the case. If by some chance there is a crack,it's very likly they caused it. And I don't mean by "exposing it to air". What an idiot ! There is no way to be certain but if you were located in the DFW area I would wager that I can fix it or the new toilet would be at my expense. The flip side is that if a new flapper seat ( commonly known as a flush valve ) fixed the problem,the plumbers must fork over to me every dollar you paid and apoligize to you. For informational purpose go to Home Depot online,click plumbing,then toilet parts. Click the secound item "Fluidmaster complete toilet repair kit". Click that item to bring up a larger emage. Below the red flapper is a black rubber gasket. Below the black gasket is a white plastic nut. If that gasket and/or nut is improperly installed,the result is exaclt same as a bad flapper. With all parts in picture installed (except big red spounge donut in background) the tank will hold water until it evaporates or someone trips the lever. When tank is connected to bowl,red spounge fits between them and it's the one which will leak onto floor if not in good condition. I'm not sure that helps you but there you have it. And BTW,as I stated earlier,Home Depot and Fluid Master are for informational purpose only. Although they will work, I would use better parts.

The plumbers seem to be both incompetent and shysters. What have you paid these guys? I suspect for the money spent you could have a nice, reliable toilet by now. Don't get another plumber in. Research toilets and get a new one, like the Toto Drake...about $250. You CAN install it yourself. It is about the simplest DIY job around. If you want to develop some basic skills, do this. Watch a couple of Youtube videos and you will become confident. The first time I did it, it involved about one hour of my time to remove the old one and put in a new one. Now I'm faster.

Here is a link that might be useful: Good toilets

Thanks for the validation of my instinct and also the suggestions and info on good toilets. Unfortunately we're not near DFW or I'd take you up on your offer :)

I think kudzu9 you have faith in my ability to install a toilet that I just don't share. Every other tiny house project that should've been a quick no-brainer has run into problems that make it never as easy as it should be.

Anyway, it does sound like I need a new plumber for sure and I'll just have to try to get advice around here (Wilmington, Delaware) on a good, trust-worthy one.

But if you were me and were not going to try to fix it yourself would you first insist the one we've already paid ($400!!!) to put in the new guts make it right or start over with a new one? I feel I just need to cut my losses and start over.

leslie-
I wouldn't have the plumber back, even for free. I think he doesn't know for sure what is wrong and some of his explanations/speculations sound like baloney. Usually with a toilet there are only so many things that can go wrong, but I had one years ago where I replaced most of the parts and still couldn't get it to work correctly -- just like you -- and decided to quit wasting my time and put in a new one.

I can understand that some people don't have a natural ability to do even simple home repair projects...but don't you have any friends who are a bit handy? Almost anyone with basic skills should be able to change out a toilet.

duplicate removed...

This post was edited by kudzu9 on Sat, May 31, 14 at 11:27

Hi. Maybe the flapper isn't leaking.Look in the tank and see if the end of the hose from the valve to the overflow is above the overflow not in it. Could cause a siphon creating the problem you have.
Good Luck Woodbutcher

woodbutcher - I'm looking at the hose and it does go down at least an inch into the overflow tube but it seems to be still above the water level. However I will adjust the hose to sit at the top of the tube and see what happens. But - while i understand that it might make the toilet run to refill itself if it's too low in the tube I'm confused about whether/how that would cause an actual leak into the bowl where dye would show up.

The water level should be about 3/4" below the top of the overflow tube.
Your problem involves that water tube and it requires taking off the tank.
I propose that is why he doesnt want to mess with it.
I always put a thin layer of vaseline on any rubber parts I use in the toilet.

Alright, I did more reading and understand a little better how toilets work. I adjusted the fill hose to sit at the top of the overflow tube rather than being an inch or more down inside it. I put more dye in before leaving for work so I can't wait to see if anything came through today.
Before I adjusted the hose I put dye in just to see how long it took to show and it was 6 hrs before I saw any color in the bowl yesterday.

The flapper fits into a slightly cone shaped 'seat' in the bottom of the water closet. I suspect that this seat is slightly corroded. You can get replacement seats and flappers. Just turn off the water, flush the toilet, dry off the old seat with a hair dryer. The new seat comes with putty. Just squish the new seat on and flapper.

Here is a link that might be useful: Toilet repair kits

Hi Geoffrey -
That seat was replaced when they replaced the entire guts in March. So I don't think it's corroded but maybe defective or maybe not installed right. The plumbers that came to "fix" the problem both said they don't think the leak is at the flapper seat or there'd be a worse leak. That was my very random guess. Fingers crossed adjusting the fill hose to sit higher has solved it and no dye is in the bowl after work today!

When the plumbers replaced the 'guts', did they replace everything or just the fill valve? That is, did they remove the tank and replace the thing the flapper seats against? I'm guessing they did not. If so, the old flapper can warp/twist over time due to exposure to chlorine in your water. It's really not a big deal since they are easily enough replaced.

But this is a Kohler and it is possible that a standard universal flapper won't fit quite right. You may need to look for a more direct replacement.

OK, good point. I didn't watch so maybe they didn't actually replace that seat, I just assumed they did. It seemed like since the leak didn't exist before they came out the first time (they were called because it wasn't filling right) I thought it had to be due to something they did and not just a coincidence that the flapper seat suddenly also caused a problem - but that could be it I guess. Again, I REALLY REALLY hope the fill hose adjustment from this morning fixed it and I can go away and quit bothering you nice people with my plumbing stupidity.

If you hired a union plumber they are supposed to stand behind their work. Did you supply the parts? Cheap enough they should have redone it

But $400 should have gotten you a new toilet. Kohler is a tad tricky with rather specific parts. Like it or not the chlorine in the water will damage stuff. Feel the ring that the flapper rests on and see if it feels smooth or has rough spots. You might be able to clean off any hard water build up and get it to work better

You would be amazed at what can break a toilet. (Property manager w lots of toilets to deal with)