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Ecowater Refiner / Softener (ERR3500) Opinions

builder28
9 years ago

I'm thinking of having the Ecowater ERR 3500 installed. What interests me is that the carbon and resin are guaranteed for life and apparently can be regenerated indefinitely. I'm considering Ecowater because it has been around for a while and does business globally. Also, Costco has partnered with the local dealer and is offering several purchasing incentives. Beyond that, though, I've had a lot of trouble finding reliable information and therefore have some concerns about the purchase:

1. Quality of local service: Reviews of the dealer are nonexistent. I have no idea whether the dealer will do a good job or whether it will try to inflate prices and exploit customers. All I have to go off is Costco's reputation.
2. Price: The initial price I was offered for a softener/RO combination was $5500, which strikes me as excessively high. I am considering the softener only, and even after Costco's discounts, the total is about $3700. Other threads here about Ecowater mentioned paying around $3000 without any sort of discount. To me, this suggests that the local dealer might be trying to exploit customers. If I purchase the unit, I will have to work with a potentially underhanded dealer for the life of the hardware and pay whatever it says for maintenance.
3. Effectiveness of the unit: Ecowater provides almost no information about how well the softener removes various contaminants. Other manufacturers provide fairly detailed information, have gone through some kind of third-party testing, or offer other reasons to believe that their systems will perform well. For example, Aquasana claims to use the same carbon media in its whole-house system (the EQ-1000) as it does in its POU system, which is certified to NSF/ANSI 53. Aquasana also provides a long list of what contaminants are reduced by what percentages, and it specifies what particle sizes the filters can remove (0.35 microns). All I got from Ecowater regarding system quality was "we are a large corporation and have been around for a long time."

Is there anyone out there that can offer feedback about the ERR 3500 or Ecowater in general? In particular, I'm interested in what other people paid, how well the softener has functioned, and what experiences customers have had with their dealers. If Ecowater is no good, which manufacturer should I go with? Researching water treatment has been very confusing, so any advice from experienced people would be greatly appreciated.

For what it's worth, I'm on municipal water (fairly high chlorine, hardness of 9). Household size is two, and my primary interest is broad-spectrum removal of toxins (VOCs, heavy metals, etc.).

Comments (39)

  • vshapiro
    9 years ago

    Hi builder28 -- We are also considering an EcoWater system (ECR 3502R50S) sold through the Costco Program. We are in Southern California. Interestingly, we were quoted $7000 for the system, including EcoWater's reverse osmosis system, and yet what appears to be the "gold standard" Kinetico system is roughly $6000, again including the R.O. Why is EcoWater more expensive when it appears to use less sophisticated technology than the Kinetico? We are considering the Q850 OD.

    From everything I have read online, people are generally satisfied with EcoWater softeners/refiners, although there is some concern that the carbon will need to be replaced after approximately 8 years. I don't know what that would cost. The Costco warranty covers the cost of the parts, but not labor and service. I also read some horrific reviews of an EcoWater office in my area that has since closed. I will try to research reviews for the office that provided our quote. Unfortunately it sounds like you don't have any such information. Good luck.

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    Mixing media in a softener is not a good idea. The carbon will deplete and then the softener must be opened to replace the carbon.

    The design of the ECO is proprietary and so are the parts. It is basically a better quality Sears disposable softener and an all in one cabinet design.

    You will be married to the dealer for better or for worse. If you have a good dealer then they'll just be making an obscene profit off you but if you have a bad dealer you will be at their mercy and out a lot of money.

    Read the warranty REALLY carefully. Down the road you may get parts for free but can they charge whatever they want for labor?

    Shop around town for an independent water treatment pro who will be selling industry standard softeners for less than 25% of the ECO and tech info and parts will be available almost everywhere.

    An industry standard softener with a backwashing carbon filter will cost less than $2k installed and I don't recommend removing anti-bacterials at POE. They are added to the water for a reason so eliminating that brings your softener price down under $1k.

    The Kinetico K5 is a marvelous RO and does many things that many people may want, or may think they want, or are told they want for a REALLY hefty price. The WOW feature is nice but a good quality RO can be had for $300 to $500. Just make sure the parts are made in the US. The Kinetico K5 is also proprietary and maintenance parts will come from the dealer and at a much higher price than an industry stand RO will use.

  • vshapiro
    9 years ago

    Thanks justalurker -- I agree that based on everything I have read (including many of your posts), EcoWater's design is sub-optimal. The main thing I think EcoWater has going for it in this instance is the backing of Costco. In the event our local dealer stinks or causes damage, I believe Costco will step in. We have no similar assurances with our local Kinetico dealer who could choose to close up shop at any time, leaving us to find someone else with whom we have no prior relationship.

    Yes, both of the systems we are considering are expensive, but we are not DIYers and I have not been able to find any local dealer who isn't married to a particular proprietary system.

    One more question for you: If a softener is properly sized (and I realize a lot factors go into this equation), should we experience any noticeable loss of water pressure? We have one dual shower head shower and want to maintain good pressure with both shower heads on at the same time. Thank you.

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    If a softener is correctly sized by someone who knows how to size a softener based on water use, water conditions, and plumbing considerations then there is usually no perceivable pressure loss. Homeowners can, and do, tend to install high flow appliances and fixtures so there is always a pressure loss and that is not the fault of the softener.
    Based on the Kinetico installations I've seen they don't know how or don't care to correctly size a softener and that doesn't really surprise me cause few softener salespeople do. Kinetico makes some interesting claims regarding SFR through their softeners that flies in the face of the specifications from the resin manufacturers. Sometimes it's like Kinetico lives in their own world with different laws of physics, but their design is kinda cool.

    As a longtime Costco member I agree that dealing with Costco they stand behind their stuff for almost EVER but I don't believe that extends to sub-sellers or partners cause you don't write the check to Costco. You may not have the security in your purchase that you think... so make sure to get that in writing.

    It's not that both of the systems you are considering are expensive it's that you can equal the performance and not be tied to a dealer for FAR less money... but it's your money. For what it's worth the Kinetico is a better choice than the ECO if you have a good dealer.

    It may be hard to find a local independent water treatment pro cause the big dogs beat them into submission but there is almost always someone who sells industry standard softeners almost everywhere. It's worth your time to find them.

  • vshapiro
    9 years ago

    Thanks again for your quick response. From what I understand, the Q850 OD is Kinetico's largest residential unit, though I agree that from the literature it is actually hard to tell. Doesn't help that they changed model numbers recently. The specs state that the Q850 OD has a SFR at 15 psi of 11 gpm, but the S250 OD claims 20.5 gpm, and the S550 claims 16.4 gpm. All very confusing. EcoWater's claims 20 gpm.

    Re the EcoWater deal through Costco, the consumer actually pays Costco, gets the annual rebate on the expense, etc. So in this crazy world of small exclusive dealers who seem to hold all of the cards, the Costco name/reputation is meaningful.

  • justalurker
    9 years ago

    The idea of Costco is to get a good product at a better price not to get an inferior product and wait for Costco to stand behind it.

    I prefer the Charles Emerson Winchester III (of M*A*S*H) theory... do one thing, do it very well, and them move on. Softeners should be properly sized, installed, set up, and then only minded for routine maintenance. To compromise and spend more and then wait and see how it works doesn't make sense to me. But that's just me.

    Kind of like buying a Suzuki auto. Great cars, only one dealer, now they're gone in the US and you still have loan payments to make.

    There are more Fleck 5600 valves in service in the field than all other brands combined and Sears style (made by ECOwater) softeners are the most complained about and most inquired about repair of all the softeners on the internet.

    Regardless of which manufacturer or which marketing department SFR is a function of flow through a given volume of resin as set by the resin manufacturer.

    The spec I recall reading last by Purolite is 5 gpm for 1 cu ft of resin yet Kinetcio continues to spec their .7 cu ft softeners at 11 gpm. You usually get 12 gpm though 1.5 cubes of resin so who's numbers you want to believe?

    The Kinetico "OD" models run both tanks of resin in service and then drop one tank out during regeneration. Smart marketing, but during regeneration you get half the SFR. They don't tell you that during the sales presentation.

    I have no dog in this fight and have nothing to gain whatever you decide to do so let us know what you decide and how it works out.

  • vshapiro
    9 years ago

    Again, thanks for your quick response. We are making the decision this week. I will certainly let the forum know what we decided and then how it's working. Thanks again, and good luck to everyone out there who is also wading through this morass.

  • builder28
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I spoke with Costco, and the rep said that the return policy would NOT apply to the Ecowater purchase. Costco is paid the money first so that members are able to get 2% back. After holding the money briefly, they distribute it to the third party seller.

  • Mrs OmSai
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    vshapiro which one did you buy finally? I just now bought Ecowater ERR 3500 with ERO 375. I paid 5500 + tax. I will be getting back 550$ costco cash card and 5 years worth supply of pure soap cleaning products. So far I am liking it. Still not sure if it is worth the money :-)

  • vshapiro
    8 years ago

    That's what we ended up with, too, although I think we got the HERO and we got an RO system with it. So far, so good.


  • vshapiro
    8 years ago

    FWIW, Costco told us they would stand behind the product, and that made all the difference in the world to us.


  • Mrs OmSai
    8 years ago

    Thanks, yes costco warranty means a lot. How much you paid for both the systems? I got ERR 3500 and RO 375.

  • Mrs OmSai
    8 years ago

    Also, does your RO system is connected to the remote ?

  • Mrs OmSai
    8 years ago

    Could you please share the price you paid for the system?

  • nguyen27
    8 years ago

    I know this is few months old but I'm hoping this information can help some one. We recently (Sept-05-2015) had the ERR3500 without RO system installed thru Costco. Total was $5000. This system does has a unit called HydroLink which you can monitor the system remotely. You can opt for a bluetooth monitoring unit as well. So far we like it, will do some hardness, chlorine testing this week.

  • PRO
    ColorSplashes
    8 years ago

    This was helpful thank you. I am considering the ERR3500 and Hero 375 through Costco, but like everyone else I am baulking on the price. Incredibly hard to find any good reviews so thanks for this forum


  • tgmccallie
    8 years ago

    I just purchased the ERR3500 with Hero 375 through Costco. Final price

    after discounts was 5400 with Free installation.

    Will be installed tomorrow. I will post back the results.

    I have made several high dollar purchases through Costco and they have not

    failed to stand behind their products yet. The deal is located in Knoxville, TN which is within 100 miles from my residence in NW Georgia.

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    tgmccallie: When you say "after discounts" are you referring to 1% Costco Amex + 2% Costco Executive + %10 Costco Cash? Or just the "sticker price" promotion? We are being told about th 1%+2%+10% rebates AFTER a sticker price of $5695... but we'd still have to pay $849 installation (which would also get 1%+2%+10% rebates).


    Are you happy with the products?


    Thank you to all who have contributed to this discussion.

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    8 years ago

    Over $5K for a cabinet softener and a nothing-special RO? Holy Hannah - I'm in the wrong business.

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    My household is two adults (and two cats), though we occasionally have guests, so our typical water usage is not high. Our house has three full bathrooms and a 1.25" supply line, so I figure our plumbing supports a high flow rate. The Costco/Ecowater rep said it is against code (and basically "stupid") to attach a water softener with a connection smaller than 1". However, he also asserts that it is the large connection/high gpm that puts us at $3000 minimum for a water softener. Our water is very hard (Phoenix, AZ) though I do not have specifics. We are very reluctant with the high price of Ecowater, but we certainly like the claimed high efficiency of salt and water consumption of the microprocessor-controlled dry-tank Ecowater system. Yes, we think $5500 is exorbitant, but I welcome others' feedback on Ecowater and other systems for our situation. Thank you. @justalurker, I would greatly appreciate your perspective.

  • justalurker
    8 years ago

    Alice pretty much said it all... "Over $5K for a cabinet softener and a nothing-special RO? Holy Hannah..." and I'll add that P.T. Barnum was right when he said "There's a sucker born every minute".

    It is against code to install a device that reduces the diameter of the water service supply line, BUT the SFR (service flow rate) of a softener is determined both by the diameter of the control valve AND the volume of resin and the size of the resin tank of the softener.

    The physics and chemistry of ion exchange water softening equally applies to ALL softeners REGARDLESS of brand and NO single brand of softener has any advantage in salt efficiency that another softener can not also achieve IF designed, sized, and set up correctly.

    Anything your ECOwater salesperson expounds that his softener will do can be equaled in an industry standard softener, with the exception or remote control... IMO a useless feature, at roughly one third the cost of an ECOwater and you won't be married to the ECOwater dealer for parts or service. With an industry standard softener you can enjoy the same, or better, salt efficiency and brine pre-fill (you call "dry tank") with parts available all over the internet and free downloadable tech info at the click of a mouse.

    Phoenix is a hot bed for water treatment companies. Some professional, some knowledgeable, some honest, and some greedy. There is nothing special about Phoenix water other than it needs to be treated. My water is 45 gpg hard and my industry standard softener provides 0 hardness water.

    You should hit the Yellow Pages and look for independent water treatment professionals in the Phoenix area. If you're unsure of who to call try http://ultimawater.publishpath.com/  as they are wholesale distributors of the top quality industry standard components available and might recommend local treatment pros for you to consider.

    As questions arise or you need second or third opinions we're here to help.


  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    Thank you, jal. I am trying to learn all I can to make the right choice, but I find the vendor's websites to be very uninformative. I guess I have to solicit more in-home consultations to get straight-up facts on size, performance, warranty, price... I appreciate these forums helping me learn. Thank you.

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    Are water softeners highly unreliable? I see several comments about the availability of parts and service, but I frankly was not expecting this to be "high maintenance".... Just "keep the salt filled" was my hope here, but maybe that is unrealistic.

  • justalurker
    8 years ago

    The most often complained about softeners both for requiring service and confounding their owners are the Sears, Morton, GE et all softeners designed and built by ECOwater for those various box stores and mass merchandisers. Part of the reason for that is the low cost and low quality of a product aimed at people who don't know what they need and buy what is cheap. These softeners fail frequently and are often so short lived the phrase "disposable softeners" was coined to describe them and most water treatment pros won't even touch them. Real ECOwater branded softeners are a step up in quality and are a refinement of the same design.

    An industry standard softener that is well designed with quality components, correctly sized, properly installed, and set up for efficiency will usually give at least a decade of reliable service with minimal maintenance depending on water source and conditions. It's not unusual to come across a Fleck 5600 based softener that has been in service for 20 years and it's just time to replace the resin.

    I just replaced a 1.5 cube Clack WS1 based softener that I built in 2004 for my 24 gpg hard water that ran flawlessly for 12 years with the same design softener increased to 2.5 cubes for my now 45 gpg hard water. My old softener is installed elsewhere and is still softening right along providing 0 hardness water.

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    Is an "industry standard" softener "custom built" by independent water treatment specialists? Or are some particular name brands (not Ecowater, not GE) considered to be "industry standards"? I am intrigued by the KrystalPure KS-64 at Lowe's. For less than $1300 installed, it seems to have good basic specs, warranty, and price, but I am having a hard time getting detailed performance info on it. Is this a substandard mass-produced Ecowater product?




  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You want a system with a valve made by: Fleck or Clack. Autotrol also has good reliability history but I don't like their lack of programming control. Any reputable company will test your water prior to making a recommendation - it's a good idea to get your own analysis from a certified lab to double check the sales rep's numbers. Many of the reps don't know how to run a test properly - it's a problem throughout the industry.

    According to the city water report, Phoenix water doesn't even begin to enter the realm of difficult to treat. The city reports hardness in a 12-18 gpg range. The only potential issue is a really wide TDS range of 388-1390, but even the highest TDS isn't too bad. The latest published annual report is from 2015 - you can call and obtain the latest quarterly report or just ask what the highest hardness is that they see and size for that. Just make certain you get numbers from your water supplier - in case one area uses more well water. Most Phoenix water is surface water, but your particular area could have a different mix of water.

  • justalurker
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The Lowe's softener does not identify the control valve and advocates a mixed bed which is a bad idea. Could be using Chinese knock-off copies of Fleck or Clack or Autotrol control valves and the cheapest pacific rim resin they can find They won't be designed or sized for your particular water conditions and usage, but how would you know? Isn't that why you're here asking questions?

    Stop clicking around the net. If you want to make an informed decision then "you should hit the Yellow Pages and look for independent water treatment
    professionals in the Phoenix area. If you're unsure of who to call try
    http://ultimawater.publishpath.com/ 
    as they are wholesale distributors of the top quality industry standard
    components available and might recommend local treatment pros for you
    to consider
    ". There are quite a few knowledgeable and reputable professional water treatment companies in Phoenix if you take the time to ask and Ultimatewater is a good place to start cause they deal with most of them and all it will cost you is a few minutes to ask.

    Then you can compare what a number of reputable water treatment pros advise and see what they agree on and what they differ on. You want to hear words like Clack and Fleck, Purolite 10% cross linked resin, Structural and Pentair, when they discuss components used to assemble their softeners. You want to hear about peak SFR of your plumbing, salt efficiency, and how often the softener will regenerate when they discuss correct softener sizing.

    To me the amusing thing about buying softeners from box stores is that often one could have bought a correctly sized quality industry standard softener from a water treatment pro for the same $$$ or less that they paid a colored apron clerk at the box store for a disposable softener but they never took the time to find that out even after they were advised to do it.

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    Wow, thank you, Alice and jal. I'll pursue these paths now. Thank you for all the help!

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    Terrific! That supplier company recommended a local specialist. I called the local water treatment specialist and we discussed a few fundamental issues over the phone and scheduled an in-house consultation. It sounds like I can get a fine system for *much* less than the Costco/EcoWater estimate. Thank you, JAL an AliceinWonderland!

  • jwburriss
    8 years ago

    Gherrick - what is the name of the local water treatment specialist you contacted?

  • gherrick
    8 years ago

    From calling the supply-house recommended by jal, I was referred to Universal Water Service. From our own exploration, we have also contacted American Home Water and Air. A colleague of mine recommends H2O Pure. Certainly from a pricing and "superficial" perspective, all three sound comparable. We will be meeting with at least two of them soon to finalize our decision.

  • q a
    7 years ago

    I own the ERR 3502 R30 and have for 9 years. it works fine as a water softener. It is supposed to have a carbon filter in it but I think that is ridiculous. The filer needs to be renewable and it is not. Buy a GE at Home Depot for several hundred and a replaceable cartidge filter to remove sediment and a carbon filter for taste. Several thousand for a water softner is a joke. I paid $3500 for the plumber to install it. Now the unit is sold via Costco only in SoCal and the price doubled. Don't be a dope. It is a water softener and filters need changing. Change the filter when the taste says to do it and save a fortune.

  • Daniel Hong
    2 years ago

    Ecowater from Cosco is not worth it to pay 5000$! they will give consumers different over price!!!

  • HU-31665549
    2 years ago

    Does anyone have updates on Water softeners in 2022? I am in Tucson, AZ (water hardness ~14) & have been considering the Ecowater ERR3700 and have been comparing to a local dealer's unit built in Tucson for less than half of the ERR3700. I am concerned about durability and maintenance of the carbon. The local company indicates the carbon needs changing every couple of years. Yet the ERR3700 the carbon is good for the lifetime of the unit.

  • Jake The Wonderdog
    2 years ago

    You asked about water softeners. What does carbon have to do with a water softener? (Hint: absolutely nothing).


  • HU-31665549
    2 years ago

    Acquaint yourself with the ERR3700.

  • Jake The Wonderdog
    2 years ago

    HU-31665549 - It's not a water softener. A water softener doesn't use carbon. Period.

    This is a combination unit that tries to mix both softening and carbon filtering. Here's a tip: Don't do it. Don't mix filter media in the same unit.


    Get a water softener if you need to soften your water.

    Get a carbon filter if you want to carbon filter your water.

    Get both units if you want to do both.


    Don't try to do both in the same unit.


  • petfans
    last year

    I have a mixed unit, ECR3500 R20, from EcoWater since 2008 and it's still working. I got the quality of product I paid for. Friends who had spent less $ purchasing a cheaper brand either replaced their broken units with a different brand or EcoWater from Costco. The remote control readout was so helpful. It lets me know how many more days when salt needs to be added or how many gallons of water have used.

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