Return to the Plumbing Forum | Post a Follow-Up

 o
Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Posted by cebury (My Page) on
Mon, Mar 29, 10 at 5:55

I have a Jacuzzi Perfecta toilet in my kids bathroom less than a year old which has worked perfectly until yesterday; the water now constantly runs. I checked the obvious and all the mechanics are functional. Tracing the leak implicates the TOP of the flapper, not at the "normal" seam where the flapper meats the flange. Also, I pushed down on the flapper to force a better seal, it leaks exactly the same.

In fact, it appears the four holes on flapper itself are where the water is draining out. I removed it and here are pics:

Flapper Leaking--

Am I suddenly missing an entire gasket/seal on the flapper bottom that should be covering those holes? It seems completely obvious there should NOT be "drain" holes in the flapper itself. DUH. If I place my fingers gently blocking the holes, it stops leaking. Perhaps the holes are intentional to signal seal degradation to the user? If it doesn't text or tweet, nary a signal will reach my kids over the blaring music in their IPod's head phones.

Note this is an all-plastic flapper sealing against a plastic flange -- it MUST be missing a rubber gasket, right? Unless toilet technology has progressed that cheapo toilets containing cheapo plastic parts are now finely "machined" to create water-tight perfect seals. The only visible gaskets are between the tank innards and the tank itself (e.g. flange --> tank connection).

Question: If the seal came off, are the odds it made a "dirty" getaway along with the contents of someone's "business"? There is no sign of it -- it never calls .... it doesn't write.

Photobucket


Follow-Up Postings:

 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

My toilet's problem is at the base of the PVC pipe which hold the flapper. In the last photo, you can see that the tall white pipe and the base where holds the flapper are separate parts. They are glued together by manufacture. Mine was broken there. I once used toilet tablets for a while, (the tablets you put in a corner of the water tank). It seems the tablets damage the seal. I bought a toilet flush valve kit from home depot, and replaced the old one, and stopped using tablets. My toilet has no problem since then.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

It looks like there is a rubber seal missing.

You can pick up a replacement flapper at any hardware or home supply store, but be careful when selecting the new flapper.

Originally water closets were 5gpf (gallons per flush), then they were reduced to 3.5gpf and now the code standard is 1.6gpf and they are experimenting with a new .9gpf. As a result the flappers had to be slightly redesigned and they are now rated for the volume of flush. When selecting a new one check the package carefully to be sure it is rated to match the flush volume of your water closet.

If you are not sure there are a couple manufacturers such as Fluidmaster that make an adjustable flapper. Generally the adjustable ones will have a rigid plastic frame like yours and the rubber ball float portion can be rotated to adjust for the flush rate.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Thanks for the help! I wish I could find a pic of the original manuf. one that came with the toilet.

I'll go try to find the seal today, but I think I'm going to order the Hydroright 1/2 Dual Flush kit (24$) to see if I can convert this.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

There is no need to worry about chasing down special parts. a standard replacement flapper will fit on that fill valve. You can find one in any hardware or home supply for under $10, in fact you may find them as cheap as $2.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Where does the water go that is delivered by the white tube (upper right corner of picture)connected to the larger overflow tube? That water is supposed to be directed into the white tube down into the bowl This is seperate then your problem.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Good observation! It appears to be hooked on the wrong side of the tube wall.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Yeah after I posted it I thought, dang! Someone is gonna comment on that! ;-) It was set that way deliberately to allow the camera to go lower into the tank.

The Hydroright! Dual Flush does not work on this unit, as the tank valve is the 3 3/4" size and the Hydroright is only for 2" valves.


 o
Replacement Flapper for Jacuzzi Perfecta Toilet

It's all working!

For future folks finding this post needing a replacement for this particular unit, here is a replacement flapper for Jacuzzi Perfecta Toilet. It can be found at the local big box stores by using this item:

Korky brand Cadet 3 Replacement Flapper. It's all Red and completely (Chlorazone) rubber. The packaging also says "Fits American Standard & Pegasus". No. 3050GK. Copyright Lavelle Industries, Inc. It comes with a 5 year replacement warranty guarantee to not corrode when used with "harsh chemicals and tank cleaners". Sounds great and all, but wonder how many people really send it for a replacement $10 flapper.

Supposedly, this is a basic flapper for the valve size that fits most recently made units (obviously 1.6gpf as of this post). It is not specific to Jacuzzi but works fine. There were 2 to choose from at the big box stores for this size.

Lazypup: There is NO rating for flush volume on this and several other packages I reviewed there. But obviously "recent units" is 1.6gpf standard.

Some places on the net had suggested this particular brand/model required a replacement flapper from the manufacturer as the toilet technology was different than others. The tank itself looks pretty standard to me, just a larger valve size. While this may be partially true (I don't know), I was lucky enough to find someone at Lowes who was both intelligent and experienced (not typically the case to find both qualities). He confirmed several things and was correct this particular flapper would work.

Thanks again for your help!


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

just an FYI, i have been doing research on this, i have already spent a lot on replacements, and im going to try the above advice and obtain that product. One thing i found was that the Jacuzzi flapper is prone to decay when a bleach tablet is placed in the tank. and there is one pictured at the start of this post.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

"One thing i found was that the Jacuzzi flapper is prone to decay when a bleach tablet is placed in the tank. "

The bleach tablets are very hard on any plastic parts, and even worse against rubber (even silicone) parts.

The also increase the corrosion of any submerged metal parts.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

I inquired at Fluidmaster a ways back about chlorine (bleach) degradation of their flexible parts and they told me that the RED Chlorazone rubber flapper valves were specially designed to resist chlorine damage.

I contacted Korky and they said the same thing.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

greg_t: the chlorine tablet at the picture in the OP was put in there shortly before I attempted a fix of the problem. You can see from the pic it is still brand new. I plopped it there just to reduce the ick factor (placebo?) a bit and I'm OK with some chlorine on my hands while stuck in the tank water.

Chlorine tablets were not a contributor to the original seal wear/disappearance problem.

So far so good with the replaced flapper. Although I'm disappointed I did not purchase a toilet with dual-flush, since the ubiquitous Hydroright! dual-flush kit doesn't work (yet) for this size.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

cebury:
After 2 years likely you dont care anymore, but i happened upon your page and would like to thank you for your "insight" into this somewhat unpleasant topic...
(Jacuzzi information not very helpful by the way.)
I was as surprised as you were at how the flapper failed- so if anyone else has the same issues, perhaps they will end up on this page, as I did.

I have 2 such units in my home (~2 yrs old) and found the same symptoms as you described in toilet#1- four holes and all. Can't imagine how the seal got down in to the sewer, but if it ever decides to call or write, it won't be good!

I decided to replace both flappers for good measure, and found that toilet#2 still had the seal. I have a foto but cant figure out how to insert it in to this message. It is a simple white rubber disc.

I found the Korky 3" (3060BP) which is settable and seems to work fine as a replacement.

In the process I seem to have stumbled upon a discovery. The water running down that "overflow tube" seemed to run for a **very** long time after flush-minutes. It seems that the part of the stem that fills the tank was passing very little water. I was thinking that there wasnt enough supply pressure, so I opened the supply valve all the way. Now it looks like I had introduced too much, as the problem worsened.

Here is a link that might be useful: Foto_With_Seal


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Thanks for posting your picture. Obviously we're leaning toward a manufacturer defect with the quality of the seal->flapper joinery: rubber tenon nobs into the mortise flapper plastic holes (borrowing woodworking lingo). Who knows how many others have replaced theirs without coming here first.

I also had strange behavior with my unit and the water running what seemed like WAY too long to fill up. In fact, my boys complained so much about "this and that" I wrote it off as unwarranted pressure for a new unit. But I witnessed it taking too long to fill as well.

We've recently had a rash of clogs (and corresponding overflows by lazy/impatient teens). I was doing the lecture on reducing our TP butt-print (save the environment ya know) and the art of using a "mid-dump" flush for large "loads" (to borrow dump truck lingo, not the other euphemism).

Last week, it started a slow leak at the base without visible wetness anywhere on the unit itself (I'm wondering if the toilet flange in the concrete has gone bad).

Your post came with interesting timing. I want to replace the unit above due to the problems and it not having dual-flush in a house with 3 males. I'm installing it TODAY with a Costco 533515 WR High-Effiency, dual-flush (1.6/1.1gpf), elongated bowl, comfort seat (18.5") with a 1000g MaP score. I have one in the master bath and it works like a charm, despite negative reviews of older versions of the toilet.

Good luck on your unit...


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

"...hlorazone rubber flapper valves were specially designed to resist chlorine damage. "

Resist does not mean eliminate.

The holes in the down side of the flapper are to make sure any water that gets in the body empties out.
The flapper relies on having a bubble of air inside to stay open long enough for the correct flush.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Glad to see this thread, even if it 3 years old.
I had the same problem - all 4 toilets in our house are these Jacuzzis. About 2 years ago we had one continuously slow leaking. When I examined the flapper, the gasket was missing.
I assume it worked its way off and disappeared down the bowl. I ordered a replacement flapper (couldn't find just a gasket) and no more problems.
However . . . .
Tonight, one of my kids said their toilet was running, and, sure enough, the gasket is missing. Different toilet, same problem. I was going to order another flapper online (cost anywhere from $12 - 16), but I think I'll head down the street to Lowes and get the Korky 3" quicker there.
Thanks for the info.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

It continues to amaze me how the Internet easily facilitates knowledge sharing; it empowers us to fix things on our own.

Glad it was helpful to others, as I certainly appreciated the fast response from those here like lazypup and brickeye.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

" When I examined the flapper, the gasket was missing. "

Leave it to Jacuzzi to complicate a simple flapper design.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

I am a remodeling contractor. I have installed 10 or 15 of the Jacuzzi Perfecta toilets. I certainly regret it now. There have been at least 8 of the seals that flushed down the toilet. Not one was due to chlorine tablets. Lowes was no help. I can buy the entire assembly from Jacuzzi, but that doesn't help if you are without a toilet and must wait for the part that you have to pay for if it was installed over 1 year ago.
Thanks for the flapper info! You would think that Lowes would stock the flapper seal since this is a common problem!


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

As far as follow-up -
I went to Lowes and got the Korky 3" (red) flapper for about $11. It fits fine. No more leak.

I agree - I wish Lowes or someone would carry just the gasket/seal so it would only cost a couple of dollars, but it aint so. I'm sure I'll be back getting another in the next year or so when the other 3 toilets start to leak.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

As far as follow-up -
I went to Lowes and got the Korky 3" (red) flapper for about $11. It fits fine. No more leak.

I agree - I wish Lowes or someone would carry just the gasket/seal so it would only cost a couple of dollars, but it aint so. I'm sure I'll be back getting another in the next year or so when the other 3 toilets start to leak.


 o
RE: Running Toilet - Flapper Missing Seal?

Thanks so much for all your posts. so helpful as I struggled with a missing gasket. It broke and went down the abyss. Since I have 4 of these Jacuzzis I was determined to find a solution. First I tried a random replacement seal from Lowes with no success. Then I tried the Korky 3 inch flapper which worked but the floppy action was no match for the original. Plus I was just annoyed to spend $12 when all I needed was a gasket not the whole flapper. Finally I stumbled on the Keeney silicone replacement flapper seal K831-3 on Amazon. Bulls eye! For $2 you will get a perfect match. I would not be surprised if Keeney makes the flapper for Jacuzzi. I bought Keeney 3" flapper model K833-1 just in case and a few extra silicone seals. It looks like it will fit as well if the original Jacuzzi hard plastic flapper ever breaks. Thought you would all like to know. I know that I am over sharing but I have never been so happy about a toilet repair.


 o Post a Follow-Up

Please Note: Only registered members are able to post messages to this forum.

    If you are a member, please log in.

    If you aren't yet a member, join now!


Return to the Plumbing Forum

Information about Posting

  • You must be logged in to post a message. Once you are logged in, a posting window will appear at the bottom of the messages. If you are not a member, please register for an account.
  • Please review our Rules of Play before posting.
  • Posting is a two-step process. Once you have composed your message, you will be taken to the preview page. You will then have a chance to review your post, make changes and upload photos.
  • After posting your message, you may need to refresh the forum page in order to see it.
  • Before posting copyrighted material, please read about Copyright and Fair Use.
  • We have a strict no-advertising policy!
  • If you would like to practice posting or uploading photos, please visit our Test forum.
  • If you need assistance, please Contact Us and we will be happy to help.


Learn more about in-text links on this page here