My advice do nothing. Your water is only slightly hard. Why pay to make your water more corrosive and sodium "enriched" when it's only 5 grains?

Water daddy,

What makes you think the water will more corrosive?

What does "trace" mean? 0.5 ppm?

Five grains isn't bad at all. However, if you want soft water, nothing else will do. FWIW, I've had two Kineticos at different locations for over fifteen trouble-free years. Last year I had both refurbished plus new media for a couple hundred each and they're like new again. Would absolutely buy again and recommend without hesitation.

I just got off the phone with my kinetico dealer and was quoted for a model 2040 for $2100. installed. The trace was 0.5 ppm and my wife hates iron stains, so if I don't need a water softener what would I need instead?

Minnheadz3,

0.5 ppm is not trace amounts. WQA states that iron over 0.2 ppm is considered a nuisance iron causing stains as your wife has noticed.

The 2040 model is a fine product and will easily handle your water issues.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Very soft water is corrosive by the very nature of having no mineral carbonates. A slight film of carbonate on the pipe wall reduces abrassion and the pipes ability to leach. Softening in most cases is a bad idea from a health and plumbing longevity standpoint. I've seen chloramines rapidly breakdown the resin resulting in yellow nasty water and low pressure. Anyone know what compounds are formed from the decomposition of these synthetic beads?

By the way softeners do not remove oxidized or insoluble elements like +3 Iron, so you have not know what type of mineral state you are dealing with. Cation Exchange Softening only works for +2 Cations.

Thanks water_daddy and everyone else, If I didn't get a water softener, what should I use to get rid of hard water/ iron?

You can use an iron filter to remove the iron. There are several viable methods to do this. For home owners I generally prefer Pyrolox because it does not require you to handle chemicals. The level of iron you have can be removed with a softener, if you choose. I only suggest the iron filter if you decide you do not want a softener.

A softener is the only thing that will remove hardness. If you dislike the hard water, a softener is your only remedy. 5 grains is moderately hard. You will see some scale build-up on fixtures and in your hot water heater. Since you have well water, chloramines should not be an issue. They are added to city water systems before the water is distributed.

Soft water is not more corrosive than hard water, unless your water also has a low pH. This has been shown in numerous studies. The oxidation layer on the pipe wall protects the pipe from corrosion. It is also not not detrimental to your health, with the exception of those folks that need to limit sodium intake. Even those folks can drink water softened with potassium.

minnheadz3 - If you have water analysis number, we could be more helpful. You will likely also want to speak other local water treatment pros.

Hey alice, you obviously sell this stuff for a living. Everything I stated is factual.

If iron is in the +2 state, meaning it is soluble or the water is clear, than yes a CEC softner will work. And Alice is correct, softner is the only practical way to remove, hardness. However, 5 grains is not worth treating. I bet your soap suds fine and your water heater is content.

water_daddy: That's actually pretty funny, considering that I am usually the one asking the sales guys here to dial it back. I do not now, nor have I ever, sold this stuff. Sorry to blow your theory. If you wanted to know my qualifications, all you had to do was ask.

Chemical engineer. My specialty is in the area of water treatment, specifically boilers and cooling systems, primarily industrial applications where control has to be as close to perfect as possible. Corrosion control, scale control, biological control, anything from simple systems to those requiring ultra-pure water, all from the customer side, not the sales side. I have first-hand knowledge of the effects of all types of water on a wide variety of materials. I am here purely to provide folks with enough information to make good decisions so they don't have to rely solely upon the advice of a minimally trained salesperson.

Aliceinwonderland: I assumed too much about you. Can we agree for general domestic use minnheadz3 doesn't have a hardness issue? I caution softenors just because I've seen so many people with older plumbing elevate lead/copper concentrations by softening and not being conscience of water residence times. Now the iron, maybe a different story, but I would also consider the nature of collection technique and analyses. When you are talking ppm or ppb you have to be anal.

Minnheadz3 are you noticing discolorations in cold/hot water? Metallic taste or smell?

Thanks again...my plumbing was redone 3 years ago so that won't be an issue, I am finding that I can only afford a water softener that costs up to $600.00 not including installation any Ideas for brand or model? Thanks again!

minnheadz3 - I try to stay away from specific brand recommendations but I would be happy to give you some things to look for. The amount of iron in your water will likely cause discoloration. A softener will be less expensive than a stand-alone iron filter. While 5 grains is not high hardness on its own, many, many factors determine the scale potential of water. If it is causing scale and it bothers you or your wife, it's worth removing. Your choice.

Unfortunately, your price point will preclude most water treatment pros in your area. If you are handy, or know a plumber that can follow directions, you can install yourself. There are many online stores that sell softeners for reasonable prices. Another option: many places will rent or lease-to-own a soften for you. If at all possible, I would avoid box store brands for several reasons: inferior valves, inferior resin, storage in unheated warehouses which breaks resin, proprietary valves that are expensive to repair, one-piece designs that make maintenances difficult. However, if all you can afford right now is a box-store unit, it will be better than nothing. You can get a better softener online, for the price, but you will be dealing with someone who doesn't have to look you in the eye. You are the one that has to reconcile your budget with your comfort level buying online.

Look for:
- Major name valve. I prefer Fleck, but hear good things about Clack as well. Autobus is okay.

- Never stored in freezing conditions.

- Two piece design. Brine tank separate from resin tank.

- Water analysis is needed for proper sizing You wart to know: calcium, magnesian, alkalinity iron (Fe 3, Fe 2), TDS, pH, sulfur compounds, nitrates, manganese, possibly phosphates if they are prevalent in your area). You can call your local city water facility to see where they get their testing done. When you talk to the lab that will do the testing, be sure to ask them about proper sampling technique.

- Anyplace that doesn't ask for or perform analysis before trying to size a softener for you, doesn't deserve your business.

- Ask about service after the sale. Make sure they supply instructions for set-up.

- The softener should regenerate based on gallons of water used rather than solely based on time.

- Ensure the paperwork with your softener lists the type and amount of resin.

Hey, after having two separate companies come out and look at my old, and embarrassingly small (25000 grain) ecowater system that was installed in the house before I bought it, 4 bedroom, 4 bath house that had 5 people living in it before we got here, I have been informed that this house, due to the water hardness and amount of people and laundry :-), needs a 48000 grain water heater. Both companies I called out, one sells ecowater, and one sells GE, want what seems to be alot of money for a system. Both want to put it the system that is separate salt and mineral tanks. I have a question, actually more than one. I have found systems online, such as Fleck, for far less than what these folks want. Can I, a humble electrician, manage to install one of these myself without ruining them, or my ego for that matter? Meaning, are these idiot proof? Do they come ready to install, just hookup the water? I assume, hopefully correctly, that since I have an existing system, small though it is, that it will be an easy install? Also, if I purchase a Fleck system, is the one tank, or twin alternating tank system better? If I order one, and for some reason do not get a system that will basically install easily with my existing setup, can I get parts easily to adapt to the new hookups? We go through ALOT of water here, we also have alot of dogs that we are bathing, feeding, and watering constantly too. Sorry about so many questions!! Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

I agree with Alice...

Softened water is no more corrosive that the original water it had treated.

There is a major difference between naturally soft water and softened water. Water from granite ladened land, for example in Maryland, Maine, may be aggressive due mostly to its low pH from high carbon dioxide or mineral acid content.. The acidity in water causes corrosion. Studies have shown that hard water converted to soft water by means of ion exchange (as opposed to membrane softening) is no more corrosive than its form pretreated.

'Very" soft water does not have mineral content !!!? Where does that come from? Perfectly soft water can have extremely high TDS in excess of 1200 ppm. I am surprised at this statement. Soft water is not bad for plumbing in the long run or any other type of pedestrian manner.

As far as 5 gpg not worth treating, that is a matter of opinion, period. Some people are quite pleased with treating 5 grains others are satisfied with 70 grains. So who'e to say? 5 Grains is considered moderately hard.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

Andy:

"Very soft water does not have mineral content !" Reread, I never said this. Mineral carbonates (Ca/Mg carbonates -chief makeup of hardness) doesn't = all minerals. Please don't mislead.

Hardness is a bit subjective, but 5 grains is slightly hard in every EPA, USGS,and health department guide I've seen. The most important characteristic again is that your soap will sud and water heater will function fine with 5 grains.

All things equal soft water will be more corrosive than hard water. A carbonate film coating the pipe wall WILL reduce abrassion and leaching rates. I cannot make this any simpler to understand.

Lastly: Be carful, your info is everywhere dude.

Here is what the WQA (Water Quality Association) has to say:

http://www.wqa.org/sitelogic.cfm?ID=366

If you would like a more detailed explanation:

http://www.intercorr.com/awwa.html

What happened to Gary, who sells the water softener with the Clack valve? We bought a softener from him last year. I paid under $700 for it. He talked us through the install and called us back if we ever got his voicemail when we called.

I am afraid Gary is no longer with us here on this forum. I guess there were some issues that didn't agree with him. We miss his whit and wisdom like you couldn't imagine.

Glad that your system is working.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II