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rmtdoug_gw

Anyone here re-plumb their entire house?

rmtdoug
9 years ago

I'm doing a whole house remodel myself on a 100-year-old house. My goal this year is to replace all the waste and water lines. The main stack is cast iron and the water supply is galvanized. House is two stories, two bedroom, 1500-ish sf. The upstairs bath sits above the kitchen, which sits above the laundry in the basement. 90% of the house's plumbing is in one 6 inch wet wall from basement to attic that is about five feet long. The laundry/HW is in the corner of the basement where the main stack comes down.

I'm a retired finish carpenter with 30 years experience but my only plumbing experience is not much more than setting toilets and hooking up sinks, etc. I've worked with ABS and PVC a little here and there enough that it doesn't scare me, anyway. I'm willing to hire a plumber for the waste lines, but I would like to do the water supply myself in pex if possible.

Should I try to pull this off myself or what do I need to know before hiring a plumber and how much might I expect to spend? I'm going to replace everything with plastic. I would like to re-use the cast iron but it's been hacked on before and I feel it would be best to start from scratch from the basement upwards.

Any advice or questions I should be asking before I take the plunge? I will be pulling a permit for this work.

Thanks,
Doug

Comments (14)

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    Your post is understood. It is highly likely that all of the existing cast iron DWV piping that is vertical, 45 degrees or more to the horizontal, will be in virtually perfect condition as the effluents quickly flow away and do not pool in the vertical portion of the pipe. Horizontal cast iron sometimes deteriorates faster depending on the slope and the nature of the waste.

  • rmtdoug
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, bus driver. There are no horizontal runs of cast iron; it's all strictly in the vertical main stack. There is no indication anything is wrong with the cast iron, but it just seems easier that after 100 years it would be simpler to rip it out and start over. I'm not worried about water noise. I see all the lead filled joints everywhere and wonder how in the world I can tie plastic into that and not have it leak eventually. I do live in earthquake country.

    And, of course, all the galvanized piping is on its last legs.

    Here's a shot of the wall behind the shower upstairs. You can see the tub faucet supply flanking the main stack and the shower supply held with a piece of wire at the top. The whole house is plumbed like this:

    This post was edited by rmtdoug on Mon, Jan 19, 15 at 12:10

  • bus_driver
    9 years ago

    The 2" drain pipes appear to be galvanized steel. They could be on their last legs. If this was mine, I would keep the cast iron and replace all the other DWV.
    Getting the lead out of the cast where the 2" enters is a bit of work. The donuts could then be used to install PVC a those points. It is necessary to verify if the present system design meets today's code.
    Frankly, it appears that your post was not really seeking advice but approbation.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Donuts

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Mon, Jan 19, 15 at 20:55

  • rmtdoug
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    bus_driver - Thank you for the link on the donut. That answered that question. Sounds like a lot of work, though, and it would have to be done at least six times that I know of.

    As for code, the building inspector sees the same things I do. He did not specifically encourage me to save any of the plumbing when we discussed it during another inspection last summer. That's what convinced me to replace everything.

    My dilemma remains whether to do this myself or hire a plumber. I'm truly 50/50 on this. I've been around enough to know it would take me four times as long and cost about the same. Anyone out there, pro or DIY, who has been involved in this sort of job and is willing to share what I will be getting myself into? What should I ask a plumber when seeking a bid and roughly the amount of time this should take them?

  • lazy_gardens
    9 years ago

    Should be a day's job for 2 or 3 plumbers, one in the room and one feeding pipe through the walls from the wet chase (having the chase and access to the basement is a real time saver).

    PEX or flexible copper would be faster than rigid copper.

    Have you made a decision on new fixtures, because it's just as easy to hook up new stuff as old stuff. And be sure to get 1/4-turn valves for sinks and toilets in case you need to turn off water to them separately.

  • rmtdoug
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    lazygardens, wow, a day. That would be impressive. I was setting aside a month to do it myself. The scope of the project involves gutting the upstairs bath and finishing it after the plumbing is fixed. The kitchen, however, will remain with old fixtures for another year or two. That is the tricky part.

    I've already decided on pex but I really wanted to do that myself. Not sure what a plumber would say about that and whether it would even be feasible if I decided to hire a plumber.

  • anitamacey
    9 years ago

    If y0u have pulled a permit for this find out about the necessity for your faucets being AB1953 compliant. That means lead free.
    Faucet prices online are very reasonable but be sure they are AB1953 compliant. Don't assume they are.

  • MichiganBMosh
    9 years ago

    When you say your doing a remodel on the house, would the plumbing be the first step? Because if you are doing a whole house remodel, a good crew can easily knock that out in a few days or less depending on how big the place is of course, If they have access and ability to make access throughout the place. I say hire it out and spend your time doing what you do best - finishing.

  • Vith
    9 years ago

    If you do decide to remove the cast iron, rent a chain breaker. Start at the top and work down. The cast iron is heavy and if it falls on you that wont be good. If the chain wont fit around the pipe than use an angle grinder with a cut off wheel and definitely wear breathing protection and expect a lot of dust. The angle grinder works fine just not as fast as a chain breaker. Reciprocating saw, even diamond blades are worthless on cast. Also, save the scrap cast iron and galvanized so you can take it to the scrap yard, they pay a decent amount for the steel in weight, I got about 150 for the cast I took in.

    As far as installing drain lines, get a level that shows 1/8", 1/4" pitch so you can get that right. You dont want too much slope otherwise the water moves too fast and waste stops in the pipe. 1/4" slope is the correct one.

    As far as PEX, once you have a connection past the main line its fairly easy to work with. Sharp bends with 3/4" pex is hard to pull off that should be near your main branch though. Run a 3/4" to a T that goes to your water heater and to a cold manifold, then 3/4" from the water heater to a hot manifold. Figuring out the connections for the main line and for the water heater are the hardest. I used http://www.menards.com/main/plumbing/rough-plumbing/pipe-tubing-fittings/fittings/pex-fittings/metal-pex-fittings/water-heater-connector/p-1340699-c-9381.htm to connect to the the valve on the main line and for the water heater connections. They have connections with valves too if you want that, I didnt need it.

    I used cinch clamps with the pex, the tool to use them is about 40 dollars. Did not have a problem with the cinch clamps, once they are on they are on. Pros will want something better cause my arms were real tired after using it all day but it was fine for me to use for a big job only one time. Milwaukee has a pex tool that expands the tube and you insert a connector in there then the tube tightens down on the connector. That isnt cheap though.

    This post was edited by Vith on Wed, Jan 28, 15 at 13:38

  • rmtdoug
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, everyone, for the advice so far. I'm leaning towards taking MichiganBMosh's advice and hiring the waste lines out at least, although I would do the demo on the old pipes. I certainly can avoid paying for that.

    Have not pulled permits yet; still working on finances. I'm slowly evolving from just doing the upstairs bath at the same time into including the kitchen since I have to remove some cabinets for access to the upstairs bath anyway. I think that would be the most efficient route to take. Yes/no?

    Vith - Thank you for all that detail. It helps me make the right decisions. Like I said in my first post, I have a lot of building experience but not a lot of detailed plumbing knowledge. It would be quite an adventure for me to do everything myself and plumbing and me have never been on the best of terms. I need all the advice I can get.

  • danvirsse
    9 years ago

    Don't be afraid of running the pex yourself. If you do a homerun system there are very few errors to make. With 2 people, pulling the pex tubing is quite easy. We did our complete house in two weekends during a gut remodel. Our house is cape with a chase thru the corner of the kitchen with the bath directly above.

  • rmtdoug
    9 years ago

    Thanks for the encouragement, Danvirsse. Sounds like you have a similar setup. I plan on doing a homerun system. I'll do whatever it takes to get through a shower without someone stealing my hot water, lol!

  • jackfre
    9 years ago

    If you do the pex, pay attention to the number of fittings you use. A 1/2" pex lines 90's, 45's & tee's will have an opening of about 5/16". Bushing affect adds up and your water pressure can drop significantly. Use as few fittings as possible. Use the 90* long radius "supports" that fit over the outside of the pipe.

  • rmtdoug
    9 years ago

    jackfre, do you mean radius supports to prevent kinking? If so, that's exactly what I was planning. I want as few fittings as possible and given that just about everything will be in one two-story wall, I should have very few fittings anyway.

    I had planned to use the expansion system, Uponor, I think, which I understand greatly reduces bushing effect. I already have a few Milwaukee M12 tools, so all I would have to buy is their base expansion tool. That makes my cost of entry pretty low.

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