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littlebill21

5600SXT settings

littlebill21
11 years ago

hi recently installed a 5600sxt 32k softner

with a total overall hardness of 6

the issue im having is i sized the system based on a 8.5 salt used per regeneration for efficiently. i only need roughly a 25k unit

when programming the unit, i was expecting a salt/lb setting

all i got was system total capacity , and brine refill cycle time

i am assuming and this is the part i need help with , is the system total capacity is simply used to figure out how many gallons of water can be used before regeneration?

is the brine refill cycle the same as the salt used per regeneration setting on time based units?

how do i set this unit to have a around a 25.5k capacity and use only around 9lb of salt during regeneration and not 15?

Comments (24)

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    You sized the system incorrectly... 8.5 lbs of salt per cu ft is not an efficient setting. You will be wasting salt and water.

    BF = brine fill and is the setting for salt dose.

    1 gallon of water dissolves 3 lbs of salt.

    For 9 lbs of salt you need 3 gallons of water

    minutes of BF x the size of your BLFC will get you the water volume you want.

    For the size of your BLFC look near where the brine tube attaches to the 5600 for a sticker which will tell you the BLFC size.

    System capacity and hardness determines the # of gallons between regenerations.

    And don't forget that you need to program a reserve.

    Do you have the service manual for the 5600SXT?

    This post was edited by justalurker on Sun, Jan 27, 13 at 21:39

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    what is a good efficiency setting? 6lb?

    i guess i would have needed a 48k unit then?

    what does the capacity setting do? simply change how much water can go through before a regeneration is scheduled?

    i will need to look tomorrow for the blfc size to make the calculation

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    i have the manual, it does not have the charts for the salt dosage settings or anything.

    i followed the following

    http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/PDF/5600SXT_installguide_rev3.1.12.pdf

    i bought this from them

    ok i am understanding this alot better now

    i will set the capacity to 25k

    on the RR cycle there is some confusion between a couple documents, one says leave it at 10, other say leave it at 12

    the default was 12. i thinking i should leave it at 12, since it will clean the resin tank better?

    if my BLFC is .5gpm and i want 9lb. i would set the BF=6 minutes yes?

    thanks for the help

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    my safety factor reserve is 15%, per the document?

    does that seem like a decent number?

    i also read conflicting on force regen

    the doc above says 14 days and leave it, other say no more then 10

    what does it matter with a meter based unit?

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    Since you already bought the softener how about we get it set to operate as efficiently as possible?

    Water system or well?
    Raw water Hardness? Iron? Manganese? pH? TDS? If well nitrates and bacteria
    # of people in the house?
    # of bathrooms?

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    well

    5.4 raw hardness iron less them 1 ppm

    0 nitrates and bacteria

    2 people

    2 full bathrooms

    1 bathroom has 80 gallon jacuzzi tub used roughly every week and half

    This post was edited by littlebill21 on Sun, Jan 27, 13 at 22:39

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    Interestingly you didn't miss by much sizing your softener.

    Based on your numbers a smaller softener would be more correct but would limit the SFR so a 1 cube softener was a better choice. With the 9 gpm SFR a 1 cube softener gives you there might be hardness leak though when running the Jacuzzi but it will be slight.

    On a well with any iron you don't want the softener to go any longer than 7 days between regens. Also, with iron you want to use Iron Out or a similar product once in a while.

    I'd set capacity at 10k, hardness at 9 (compensated for the iron), calendar override at 8, and salt dose at 5 lbs.

    When you know the size of the BLDC then we can calculate the RF to get you 5 lbs salt dose.

    So, in the master programming...

    C: 10
    H: 9
    RS: SF
    SF: 20%
    DO: 8
    RT: 2:00 make sure it is AM
    BF: when we know BLFC size

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    2 questions where are u get 10k capacity from?

    and what is SFR

    i do not do 9gpm more like 5.6 to 7gpm, realistic use would be more like 5gpm

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    2 people x 60 gpd (average) x 9 gpg compensated hardness = 1080 grains hardness / day that needs to be treated x 7 days plus 20% reserve = 9072 so I rounded up to 10k cause you have 1 cu ft of resin to work with.

    SFR is Service Flow Rate

    I'm pretty confident that your 80 gallon Jacuzzi will expect more than 5-7 gpm to operate properly.

    If you can only get 7 gpm SFR from your well then a .5 cube or .75 cube softener would have been a better choice.

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    how do you figure out the salt removal average under 6lbs?

    i have not seen a chart that goes lower then 6?

    also i am currently not living at the house. can i do a regen and turn the unit off since i may not use water for over a week? or will this damage the resin even though i am not running water through it?

    i will send the size later once i go to the house

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    "how do you figure out the salt removal average under 6lbs?
    i have not seen a chart that goes lower then 6?"

    Arithmetic

    "can i do a regen and turn the unit off since i may not use water for over a week?"

    As long as it won't freeze you should be OK.

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    mind sharing the formula?

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    its .5gpm or 1.5lbs of salt a minute

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    With .5 gpm BLFC (1.5 lbs salt / minute) for 5 lbs salt you'd set BF = ?

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    u can't from my basic math class you either can set it to 4.5 or 6, not 5 yes?

  • justalurker
    11 years ago

    Math doesn't get more basic than...
    5 (lbs) divided by 1.5 (lbs/minute) = 3.333

    Since you can't set decimals in BF then set it to 4

    4 minutes x 1.5 lbs/min = 6 lbs is as close as that valve will let you set.

    Let us know how things work out.

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    11 years ago

    Okay, I need to clear something up here. Resin capacity is determined by salt dosage during regeneration. It has nothing whatsoever to do with how much water you use or how many grains of hardness you have in your water. Your specific water conditions and usage determine your hardness load.

    Capacity is specific to each individual resin. Resin manufacturers provide charts so that you know how much capacity your resin will have based on the salt dosage you use to regen your softener. Below is the chart for Aldex C-800; this is what a typical resin capacity chart will look like. You can see that if you regen this resin with 6 lb salt per cubic ft of resin, your capacity is about 15,000 - 16,000 grains (calculate based on the low end). With a Dow resin, you would get about 21,000 grain capacity at 6 lb salt per cubic ft of resin. You need to find the product engineering information sheets to locate the charts. To then determine where you should set your system's capacity, take off 20% for reserve and you arrive at a system capacity of 12,000 for C-800 resin regenerated at 6 lb salt/cuft resin. For a Dowex resin, capacity at the same salt dosage would be ~17,000.

    You can regen with a salt dosage lower than 6 lb/cuft IF your water TDS is not terribly high. If TDS is too high, you will experience hardness leakage. What constitutes a TDS that is too high? Depends upon your specific resin. What resin is installed in your system? What is your TDS?

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago
  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    11 years ago

    Nelsen Corp does not seem to be very forthcoming with engineering data on their resin. Their site indicates only that the resin has a max capacity or 33,000 grains per sq ft and 22,000 when regenerated at 9 lb salt per sq ft. You could contact them and request the information. Ask for the chart or, ask for resin capacity at 3 and 6 lb salt per cu ft resin. If they won't provide it, we will have to make some assumptions. The chart above should provide reasonable numbers to use if we can't obtain the actual data for your resin.

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    alice

    i have seen this chart in a ton of places.

    are you saying this is not a good assumption?

    http://www.apswater.com/water_softener_capacity.asp

    im still trying to get answers, nelson will not talk to me directly

    and my sales rep sent me specification on the resin, not a salt regen chart

    where did u find out the 33 at 15 and 22 at 9 on the site?

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    11 years ago

    The table you linked is a decent rule of thumb, but it does assume a reasonably high-quality resin. Absent actual specs on a resin, I would tend to err on the more conservative side, which is why I chose the chart I used above.

    I found the maximum and 9-lb capacity info on one of the pages on Nelsen Corporation's website - it was in the middle of a paragraph and only those two points were listed. The 33,000 grain capacity was listed as maximum without any indication what salt dosage was required to reach that maximum. I wish I had bookmarked it as it took a fair amount of digging to find it.

    Nelson Corp is not a resin manufacturer - they rebrand resin produced by another company so, in the absence of data to the contrary, I would assume a lower quality resin than Dow or Purolite.

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    this is what i was sent so far, pretty much seems to be it though, they have no other charts

    http://littlebill.hopto.org/ftp/1.pdf

    http://littlebill.hopto.org/ftp/2.pdf

    also why are you taking a reserve off the main capacity the 5600sxt has a safety factor built in? thats a double reserve capacity if you take percent off the top, then the system takes another 20

    This post was edited by littlebill21 on Tue, Jan 29, 13 at 17:23

  • littlebill21
    Original Author
    11 years ago

    i was told the resin is made by the above company which makes the purolite, so i guess its decent quality?

    she said its comparable but that's it

  • AliceHasLeftTheBuilding
    11 years ago

    You are correct about the safety factor - glad you caught it. We do that calc for correct sizing, then allow the softener to take it off via programming.

    Absent actual data, we have no way of knowing the quality of your resin. I like numbers. Being told, "it's comparable" or made by the same company (really?) without backup sets off my B.S. meter. You can choose to treat the resin as if it is higher quality, but take the "trust but verify" tact. Test hardness toward right before regen to ensure you still have soft water.