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thechrismar

Hardness and sediment and softeners (oh my)!

Chris
9 years ago

Hello-

Long time reader, first time poster. I'm hoping to get some insight and help on picking out a softener for my home with well water.

Here are the facts:

People: 4, sometimes 5 (2 adults, 2 kids and a frequently visiting mother in law)
Bathrooms: 4.5 (4 showers, non rain heads)

Water Test Results:

pH: 7.59
Arsenic: 2.3 ug/l
Mercury: NA
Lead: Iron: Manganese: Nitrate (total): 1,800 ug/l

All of the other stuff on the list is Hardness seems to vary, I've tested it (with a Hach 5B test kit) and the water treatment folks I've had come out have as well.

My Test: 18 gpg
1st Co: 16 gpg
2nd Co: 23 gpg
3rd Co: 20 gpg

None of them tested TDS, I did, which was 237 ppm.

I'm unsure of the flow from a hose bib or tub. I can test it if anyone feels it's necessary.

I do have a large amount of red/orange sediment collecting in my toilet tanks.

And here's the 3 quotes I've gotten so far, all appear to be reputable, independent water treatment companies in the area:

1st Company:
32K grain softener with an Autotrol control head. I'm unsure of the resin capacity as it isn't listed on the quote.
Softener, installation & 500 lbs salt = $2,365.00

2nd Company:
1.5 cu ft, 45K grain softener (unknown brand/control head)
10" Big Blue + Filter
Softener, BB & installation = $1,737.80

3rd Company:
2.5 cu ft, 65K grain softener (Water-Right brand w/ clack control head)
20" Big Blue + Filter
400 lbs salt
Softener, BB & installation = $2,445.00

All of them include a 3 valve bypass. #3 includes a pressure gauge after the BB.

Not sure of the resin type of 1 or 2. #3 uses an american resin.

The 1st company has obviously suggested an undersized and over priced unit. They didn't even bother asking how many people or bathrooms are in the house. It's pretty clear that they're out.

I'd say it's between the other two. What do the experts here think?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Comments (10)

  • User
    9 years ago

    SFR is an important consideration if you want the softener sized correctly. Even without that data you're in the 2.5 cube ballpark, but I'd have to know the SFR in order to size correctly.

    It's never bad to size for the highest hardness test.

    You want a pressure gauge before and after the BB so you can see the pressure loss across the filter element and KNOW when it's time to change the element.. that is IF you need a BB filter at all and what it is filtering.

    Red/orange seediness can be indicative of iron in the water so if you're testing with a DIY kit or the sellers are testing do the smart thing and get a comprehensive water test from a local certified independent lab.

    A water treatment pro should be able to give you the specifications for every component in the softener IF you ask. If they can't or won't then they are not professionals and you should avoid them.

  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Thanks, Lurker.

    I'll gather the SFR next time I'm at the house (we haven't moved in yet).

    Company #3 did test the iron, and it didn't come back with anything. The report from the lab reported (what I consider to be) trace amounts (Iron: Both 2 and 3 did suggest a BB after seeing the sediment and its size in the toilets. 2 suggested a 10", 3 a 20". Not sure if either has an advantage over the other? Maybe longer media life of the larger one?

  • User
    9 years ago

    Suggesting a BB housing is one thing but what matters is the element inside. What element are they suggesting?

    20" will go longer between changes and flow more than the 10". Once you know the SFR then we know what the required flow rate is for both the softener AND a BB filter.

    I'd get the lab to re-test for iron and manganese.

  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Was able to get to the house today to test the SFR. I did it from a tub and a hose bib.

    Tub = ~5 gpm
    Hose bib = ~10 gpm

  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    After reading a few more threads it seems that my SFR might be on the lower side. The question is, does a lower SFR still warrant a higher capacity system, or is that recommendation based on anticipated usage?

  • User
    9 years ago

    Correctly sizing a softener is based on water conditions, water usage, and plumbing considerations.

    If the required peak SFR exceeds the capability of the specific volume of resin hardness will leak through.

    When sizing a softener correctly it is not uncommon to go up a size to accommodate SFR when necessary.

    Since your hose bib SFR = 10 the correct softener based on your water conditions and usage will have more than enough flow rate.

  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    Makes sense, thanks! So I guess a 2.5 cu ft softener is still the way to go.

  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    My 2.5 cu ft softener was installed yesterday. There wasn't enough vertical space in the basement rafters for an air gap so the installer put in a check valve before t-ing into the waste line. Is a check valve a suitable alternative for an air gap?

  • User
    9 years ago

    "...the installer put in a check valve before t-ing into the waste line. Is a check valve a suitable alternative for an air gap?"

    Unless your local plumbing code allows it, no. A check valve is a mechanical device that can fail open allowing cross-contamination. It can also fail closed and block the softener drain line.

    The installer should know that if he is a licensed plumber and in your locale a permit may be required which obviously wasn't pulled.

    There are a variety of ways to air gap a softener drain line ( www.airgap.com ) to a standpipe with a P trap off a waste line


  • Chris
    Original Author
    9 years ago

    I was afraid of that. I believe permits are required and one wasn't pulled. I'm feeling a little anxious now since we plan on having the basement finished in a couple of months, which will obviously be permitted and inspected.

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