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stuarbc

Verifying gas flow to range?

stuarbc
10 years ago

Builder had the plumber install the gas lines for my house.

(see attached diagram)

The line enters my house as 3/4" galvanized pipe, goes into the attic and then branches off. One branch reduces down to 1/4" copper tubing and then run across the house (in the attic) about 40' before dropping down to the gas range. The other line stays 3/4" piping to a stub out on the side of the house. I have to run piping from the stub out to a fire pit.

After researching the size pipe needed for the fire pit, I am concerned that some of the piping, especially the 1/4" tubing he ran to the range, is not large enough. I confronted the builder and said that per what I saw on the internet listing code requirements, the pipe appeared to be undersized. He would not change it....stating that that is the size they have always used and have had no problems.

I was trying to find a way to physically verify that the range is getting the proper flow.....but do not know of a way to measure BTUs.

The only way I could think of would be to run one burner on high and see what the flame looks like.....then turn everything on and see if the flame looks the same or smaller. If it is smaller, that should show that the flow is restricted.

Is there a better way?

Comments (10)

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    Not enough information to even guess at an answer. Natural gas or propane?-- lines are sized differently if going for the minimum size. Natural gas uses the larger line.

  • llaatt22
    10 years ago

    Copper "tubing" is quoted by "real" inside diameter whereas 3/4" galvanized gas "pipe" is referring to outside diameter.
    So to roughly equalize a system like yours, it would take 1/2" copper tubing going to the range. Not as hard to work with as pipe but 1/4" copper tubing can be much cheaper,easier, and neater.
    Unless you are certain about installing more big gas using appliances in the future, the range should be good as is.

  • klem1
    10 years ago

    Give the specs on range to your gas supplier along with distances and diagram and ask for a print out. No contractor wants to hear what you read on the net. Also ask gas supplier about copper pipe because it should never be used for natural gas.

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    The comment about copper for natural gas is simply incorrect. Such statements cause false alarms among homeowners. It is permitted by the Fuel Gas code for NC. And nationally recognized for such use.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Copper gas lines.

  • gigelus2k13
    10 years ago

    I'm no expert by any means, but I think that that pipe is too thin for your NXR. I was perusing the installation instructions for a range equivalent to yours in terms of BTUs (the BS RCS 30") and they clearly state that "The gas supply line must be the same size or larger than the gas inlet of the appliance. Your appliance has either a ýâ NPT or þâ NPT gas inlet connection. We recommend the supply line be üâ NPT larger than the gas inlet of the appliance".

    I doubt that the NXR comes with a tiny inlet, given the burner/broiler specs.

    Despite the BTU rating on your diagram, maybe the builder has no experience with semi-pro ranges and their huge appetite for gas and that's why he said the 1/4" pipe is fine.

  • klem1
    10 years ago

    Famous last words "I read it on the net so it must be true" AND "I read a report" AND "A study was made". In all three cases,there are always two other "experts" with conterdicting conclusions. It should be noted while reading the link that: A. Copper intrests sponsered and finaced more than one of the studies. B. The report obviposly cherry picked from sources all over the world. C Albeit subtle, there are cautionary overtone in several findings. I could go on but if the point isn't made by now,it never will be. I steadfastly standby reccomending op consult with the local gas supplier for information applical to their specific location and situation rather half a dozen people with half a dozen different situations. As far as condeming copper,I speak from firsthand experience. I have personaly replaced 3/8 , 1/2 , and 5/8 copper lines that corroded away and leaked at a connection. I have also been involved with replacing lines in intire multi-family buildings because fire marshall found coroaded copper caused a fire in a unit. I am aware some plumbers may never incuntered what I have but I credit that to them not working in DFW area from 1970s to 1980s. Surfice it to say the jury is still out,hince my primary reason for deferring op to local sources for answers. I have never saw 1/4" gas supply to anything other than gas lights. Even if the answers were cut and dry,my advise would still be good for reasons I stated. Is there one amoung us who doesn't resent being told how we should do a job based soley on what a customer heard on the net.?

  • bus_driver
    10 years ago

    My experience has been in replacing rusted-through black iron pipe gas lines.
    I suspect that the original post misidentified the size of the copper line installed. No way could a 1/4" line supply any gas-fired appliance. More investigation needed about that specific installation.

    I don't like black pipe for gas and rarely use it except for fittings and dirt legs. But it meets code and thus it would be very wrong for me to say that it is not suitable for gas service.

    Here is a link that might be useful: NC fuel gas code

    This post was edited by bus_driver on Thu, Jan 16, 14 at 13:43

  • stuarbc
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    my understanding is that the main concern about copper tubing is due to metallurgical issues from older copper tubing that you would find in older constructions. However, I did not like that he ran copper...mostly b/c of the malleability and the fact that it is ran all the way across my ceiling and will be covered in insulation where it will not be seen and could be stepped on....bent...and or ruptured.

    For those saying to talk with the local inspectors....I called them and they basically said that they do the air pressure test and glance at it to make sure nothing was done totally poorly....but don't get into checking the sizing of the pipe.

    The sizing I used for my diagram/calculations was from the International Code Council.

    I am still concerned about the 1/4" line to my stove. The connection on the back of the stove is 1/2" NPT....so that means they had to swedge up at the appliance....which sounds so counterintuitive to me. Putting calcs and codes in front of him won't convince the builder of anything. What I really need is a good way to test the range and show him that it is either OK...or not getting enough fuel.

  • User
    10 years ago

    Get it through your head - YOU can't test the range in any meaningful way - you haven't a method to do so. What you can do, is get the requirements from the range manufacturer and the requirements from your gas company. Your gas company can tell your builder with authority the line size required to deliver the required BTUs to your range. Why the resistance to a very simple and correct suggestion that you have received more than once?

  • gigelus2k13
    10 years ago

    @stuarbc: what does the NXR manual say about the gas line requirements? That should be enough to force the builder to redo it properly.