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jrone_gw

Softener advice

jrone
10 years ago

I am looking for some advice to properly size a water softener for my house. I have a private well. Here are my water specs:

Lab tested:

pH: 7.3
Iron: 0.5 mg/L
Hardness: 17.5 gpg (292 mg/L as CaCO3)
Copper: 0.21 mg/L
Turbidity: 4.2

coliforms, nitrates, nitrites, sand, lead results were all negative.

Tested by me:

TDS: 280 ppm (using digital TDS meter, temperature compensated)
alkalinity: ~240 ppm (using admittedly hard to decipher color test strip)

One thing I did not have tested is manganese, which after reading various forums it seems I probably should have done. I would like to know if I should get this tested before deciding on a softener.

Water usage:

3/4" main feed to the house

Inside:
SFR in the house is difficult to measure because the hot water coil (integrated into the boiler) is severely restricted due to hard water deposits. I actually have to run vinegar through it every month or two to get an acceptable amount of hot water. I plan on replacing the coil after I install a softener.

Right now I only get around 4-5 gpm inside whether measured from just cold at the tub, cold and hot combined from multiple faucets etc.

1.5 bathrooms, no high flow fixtures.
4 adults in the house now, likely to change to 2-3 in the near future.

Outside:
At a hose bib with a 3/4" pipe feeding it I get 12-13 gpm. At another bib with 1/2" pipe feed I get around 8 gpm.

Softener will be setup in the garage by the boiler. Outside hose bibs are fed directly from the pressure tank (upstream from the softener) which is outside in an old pump house. Pressure switch set to 40/60 psi.

Based on the above specs I am currently looking at a fleck 5600sxt system with either a 1.5 or 2.0 cu/ft resin tank, gravel underbed, 8% crosslink resin, and noryl bypass.

Assuming I am on the right track here, the big uncertainty is how many people will be living in the house in the future. Although it has 4 bedrooms, it is a small house with only 1.5 baths. With 4 adults it is pretty tight on space. We may rent it in the future or decide to renovate and modernize. 2-3 people is most comfortable for the house in it's current state.

Basically, a 1.5 cu/ft system would be good for 2-3 people but may be undersized for 4. A 2.0 cu/ft system seems over sized for 2-3 people but maybe would future proof against potential upgrades down the road.

I'm sure I am over-analyzing and obsessing but I didn't realize how involved water treatment would be when I started researching. I really want to make sure I don't screw something up.

Sorry for my long windiness and thanks in advance for any advice.

-John

Comments (8)

  • User
    10 years ago

    Since you have iron in your water, you will need to regen your softener more often. So, you could install a 1.0 cuft softener and be just fine, given that you have no high-flow fixtures. You will also need to either 1) Do a monthly treatment with Iron-Out, 2) Install a Res-Up feeder or 3) Use softener salt that removed iron. Any of the options will work well if you stay on top of it. I tend to prefer 2 or 3 since they require the least home-owner intervention.

    I am a little concerned about the turbidity. Is the water cloudy directly from a tap or does it develop some cloudiness and color when sitting?

  • jrone
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    The water is not noticeably cloudy out of the tap. There is a slight amount of reddish/brown color to it after sitting for a while. I'm guessing that is from oxidizing of the iron or any manganese that I haven't accounted for. It is not so much color that it is easily discernible though.

    I recently replaced the submersible well pump and had a lot of dark reddish brown gritty particulate in the water for a couple months afterward. The faucet screens were getting clogged once or twice a week. I thought I might need a spin down filter or other type of sediment filter but that problem seems to have finally mostly resolved itself. Lab tests were done after this had cleared up.

    Also, before replacing the well pump the water had a fairly strong rotten-egg sulfur smell. It is not so noticeable anymore, likely because chlorine shocking during replacement killed the sulfur bacteria. Of course I'm guessing there is still sulfur in the water. Not sure how/if this might affect a softener.

    It sounds like if it is a good idea to regen a bit more often because of iron, then a 2.0 cu/ft system is probably not a good idea.

  • jrone
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    So, I haven't purchased a softener yet but I did install pre-install a 3 ball valve bypass over the weekend. I removed a couple of old gate valves to help improve the SFR to the house as well.

    I was a bit surprised to find that the SFR tested from the new bypass was consistently ~17 gpm through a 3/4" pipe. I also retested the combined flow from the outlets in the house and got ~8-10 gpm with most things running at once.

    I doubt there would be a situation where we would reach that level of SFR in real usage, but for resin capacity, 1 cu/ft of the purolite c100e resin is only rated to a max of 5 gpm which I could see potentially causing hardness leak through problems.

    While 2 cu/ft of resin would give a max of 10 gpm it would probably be over-sized on hardness capacity and because of the longer regeneration periods (even using a reduced salt dosage) would be less than ideal due to the presence of iron.

    So, my conclusion is that 1.5 cu/ft of resin gives me a reasonable 7.5 gpm max SFR before hardness leak through while regenerating at a more acceptable interval (and including one of the iron treatments alice mentioned above).

    Am I on the right track here? Anything I've missed?

    Thank you,
    John

  • User
    10 years ago

    The 1.5 sounds like a good compromise. Also ensure you get:

    • High quality American or German made resin. This will provide a tight size distribution for optimal flow within the resin

    • Since you have WELL WATER: 8% crosslinked resin.

    • Top basket. This serves two purposes. It sets up a proper water distribution during normal operation and prevents resin loss during backwash.

    • Gravel underbed. The gravel underbed is there to set up proper flow patterns, improve backwash and prevent channeling. Many softener sales companies like to leave this out or sell softeners with a vortex system instead. Vortex systems weigh less than gravel so they cost less to ship. In addition, they are a more expensive item that adds profit for the softener salesperson, but provides no additional benefit to the homeowner . It simply adds another piece of equipment that can break.

    • Fleck or Clack valves. These set the industry standard. Be aware that you will not be able to purchase Clack valves online. This is not a problem if you purchase locally.

    • Noryl bypass. Most softeners are available with either Noryl or stainless bypass valves. Both are good valves, but the noryl tends to be more reliable when not used for long periods of time.

    • Install the softener with a three-valve bypass. This will make it so much easier if you ever need to remove the softener for repairs or wish to take it with you when you move. Use full-port, quarter-turn valves.

  • jrone
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    Thank you for the advice Alice. I have just received delivery of the softener (5600sxt 1.5 cu/ft). After I do the installation, the final piece I could use some guidance on is programming the control valve. I have the instructions sent with the order but I'm not sure if they are accurate with regards to efficiency. The resin is the purolite c100e I had mentioned above.

    Thanks again,

    John

  • User
    10 years ago

    Once the softener arrives, I need the BLFC size in order to help with appropriate programming. See the attached pic to find the sticker with the information:

  • jrone
    Original Author
    10 years ago

    BLFC is 0.5 gpm, 1.5 lbs salt/min

  • User
    10 years ago

    Enter Master Programming Mode

    1. DF=Gal

    2. VT = St1b

    3. CT=Fd

    4. NT=1

    5. TS doesnâÂÂt matter because you only have one tank

    6. C=42

    7. H=18

    8. RS=SF

    9. SF=15

    10. RC=0 (You are using a % reserve rather than a fixed reserve)

    11. DO=5

    12. RT=2:00 (or another convenient time when you wonâÂÂt be using water for a couple of hours)

    13. Regeneration cycle step times
      BW=10
      BD=60
      RR=10
      BF=9

    14. Ensure all days are set to ON, unless you have a specific day of the week when you do not want the softener to regen.

    15. CD doesnâÂÂt matter unless you set a day to OFF in step 14.

    16. FM t0.7

    17. doesnâÂÂt matter

    Exit Master Programming Mode.

    Don't forget about iron treatments to keep your resin functioning optimally.

    Enjoy your soft water.

    This post was edited by aliceinwonderland_id on Sat, Jan 25, 14 at 13:43